Is Carp fishing becoming too easy

[Steve Arnold]

Like Clive I prefer to watch my rods and have relatively short sessions. Probably why I prefer to fish for barbel - but always looking for the carp to come out to play.

The only time I use a bite alarm is when I am camping and have breakfast to cook. Even then my rods are put away when I go to bed, they are never left to fish for themselves!

It's a shame that Old fisher gave up teaching youngsters, but I recognise the dilemma! I did a course as a sea angling instructor and realised that such work with youngsters was only "safely" done in groups and with other adults or parents involved. Changed days from when my Dad dropped me off to fish at a road next to Oulton Broad. Dad knew an "old" guy was teaching me to fish, there was never that worry about the awful stuff that scares parents now!

I did try the camp out/three rods approach to pike fishing for a brief spell when I was in a pike club. Too many of the young pike fishers seemed more interested in drinking and smoking weed! Is it the same with the carp fraternity? I left that behind me and used my 15' boat to get me away on the Scottish lochs to islands and remote places.

Whatever the species it's wild places and big fish that get me excited!

 

[bennygesserit]

wow that place is beautiful

 

[Steve Arnold]

wow that place is beautiful

It's in the Tarn gorge, France. There are wolves, beavers, vultures and some good trout. All I could catch were small chub trotting and a couple of dace on the fly!

I have just read (again!) "I know a good place", written by Clive Gammon. He has a chapter about a trip to fish there, seems the fly is hard going, the locals used the drop minnow or special paste baits around dawn. I have some ideas for the next time I camp there

 

[@Clive]

Clive Gammon got there too early. He later dis overed that the river didn't respond to fly until late April as the snow melt killed the early season sport. What I liked about his trip is that the commission was expenses paid. He stopped off at Hardy in Pall Mall and picked up a full outfit. He later lost the rod in the river. Next stop was Pezon et Michel in Paris where he bought more tackle. Then he found time to visit a Michelin 2 star restaurant before finally arriving at the chateau where he took a whole tower for accommodation. And I bet all that was dwarfed by his bar bill

 

[Steve Arnold]

Clive Gammon got there too early. He later dis overed that the river didn't respond to fly until late April as the snow melt killed the early season sport. What I liked about his trip is that the commission was expenses paid. He stopped off at Hardy in Pall Mall and picked up a full outfit. He later lost the rod in the river. Next stop was Pezon et Michel in Paris where he bought more tackle. Then he found time to visit a Michelin 2 star restaurant before finally arriving at the chateau where he took a whole tower for accommodation. And I bet all that was dwarfed by his bar bill

Yes I did enjoy reading that! Not in the least jealous

I managed to fish the surf beaches in Wales and Ireland that he fished. Now I have fished the Tarn as well! Anything I have done though was on an incredibly tight budget, not supported or subsidised by anyone!

But Clive Gammon was a master story teller, no doubt he impressed enough people with his words to deserve his payments and perks!

For those younger anglers who have never heard of Clive Gammon......

https://www.sportsjournalists.co.uk/journalism-news/clive-gammon-master-writer-and-champion-angler/

So glad you reminded me of that book Clive, I managed to find a copy online. Mint and less than 20 euros delivered.

 

[@Clive]

If things had turned out differently you might have got to fish the Falklands too from F131

P.s. I have Catching the Impossible for you. I'll bring it down in June if you are about. Otherwise I'll post it.

 

[Steve Arnold]

If things had turned out differently you might have got to fish the Falklands too from F131

P.s. I have Catching the Impossible for you. I'll bring it down in June if you are about. Otherwise I'll post it.

I was due to join another ship about the time the Falklands kicked off. Some months earlier I had fallen severely ill and was crippled with arthritis and a fever. Thought at first I had malaria from when I was in the tropics, but eventually diagnosed with Lupus.

If I had joined a new ship it could well have been one of those sunk during the conflict. So, for me, Lupus has been a mixed "blessing". I listened to all the news reports of the Falklands whilst I was in a hospital bed, feeling guilty as so many did not make it home! Life has had some peculiar turns, I just feel lucky to be able to continue sharing stories and photos!

 

[Steve Arnold]

Sorry to have distracted this thread from the "easy carp" direction. So, a question to pull back to fishing "How to land a carp from a difficult swim"

This is my dilemma: a river swim with both man made and natural obstructions. The current is extremely variable, basically only fishable in summer conditions. In fact it is summer when the carp frequent this part of the river, there is a massive area of weed in the lower half of this photo. They enjoy that for cover, only occasionally wandering out to forage the perimeter and reef.

There is a reef running between the floating boom and the top channel marker (near my distance measure) the carp often linger there. I have hooked several carp there now, initially when fishing for barbel. On barbel tackle they power into the reef and cut me off, almost instantly!

This river has a reputation for very big (50lb+++) carp. So I have stepped up my tackle and have hooked a couple here on the heavy gear. These fish have cleared the reef and gone through the weeds, one was hooked early in the season when weed growth was still thin. That fish made it all the way to the far bank and then headed downstream to the weir, there it found the rocks and cut the trace.

I am sure that Clive will think this was a silure, but it's speed still makes me think carp!

My heavy tackle is an 11' pike rod of difficult-to-determine TC, that can lift 4lbs easily but keeps on pulling. The reel was a Shimano 8000 OC Baitrunner with 30 lb braid , now swapped for a Mitchell Full Runner 5000 with 40 lb braid. The drag on the Mitchell seems particularly smooth and powerful, hope to find out soon! I also have an old Harrison carp rod, 3.5 lb TC with a Shimano Ultegra 14000 Ci4 with 40 lb braid, that may get put to use. I have never liked that Harrison rod though, maybe I have strange tastes in tackle!

I have been cut off with 40 lb mono traces so will use coated braid this year.

So, it's a tackle question mainly. Maybe the end rig and materials are the key, any suggestions?

I cannot get access to the south bank as they are private gardens.

A boat may be the only answer, but I would have to fish in it. It has been suggested to me to have my inflatable set up and ready to step into, but these fish are so fast to the snags my old bones would move me too slow!

Otherwise it's going to be a swim to avoid, as has been the case recently. I really don't like leaving hooks in fish!

 

[Old fisher]

I think there comes a time when anglers should ask themselves. Is a swim where it is more likely to result in lost fish carrying end tackle and lengths of trailing line, is less important than the possibility of catching a biggy. I know what I would do. What do others think ?

 

[bennygesserit]

I think there comes a time when anglers should ask themselves. Is a swim where it is more likely to result in lost fish carrying end tackle and lengths of trailing line, is less important than the possibility of catching a biggy. I know what I would do. What do others think ?

Would that be unlikely to cause any lasting harm if the rig is properly constructed and their is the correct difference between mainline and hook length (ignoring the whole thorny question of barbed etc )

 

[bennygesserit]

But back to the OP , very interesting thread for me

The only carp I have ever caught have been easy carp from a commercial , though the first few times I tried they didnt feel easy , for me now the last few times I fished , it was a matter not of can I catch one , but how many can I catch and can I catch all through the day.

Not saying I am a skilled angler but I have seen very skilled anglers fishing commercials

I have also seen the hook a duck days at Furnace Mill in the summer where a lot of carp are coming out even to some atrocious angling

Having said I have never caught a "wild" carp I did once sit for 20 minutes (hands shaking) having landed a floating dog biscuit right on the nose of a huge carp on a public pool , of course I didnt catch (have to get them feeding first) but a couple of hours later something took my elastic right across the pool and straightened the hook , that happened twice. I assumed these were the carp that everyone who fished there tried to catch.

what also sprang to mind was this , in the sixties I used to watch my brother build all kinds of things out of meccano , I since learned that sometimes the manufacturer would put mistakes into the instructions as it promoted learning. Todays Meccano is a very poor relation and is much easier , is this a good analogy to angling ? Maybe.

There are a lot of young people who apply themselves very diligently see this book written by my nephew here but times are changing and possibly angling is not something so many aspire to and the market has to attract its customers however it can

 

[@Clive]

Sorry to have distracted this thread from the "easy carp" direction. So, a question to pull back to fishing "How to land a carp from a difficult swim"

This is my dilemma: a river swim with both man made and natural obstructions. The current is extremely variable, basically only fishable in summer conditions. In fact it is summer when the carp frequent this part of the river, there is a massive area of weed in the lower half of this photo. They enjoy that for cover, only occasionally wandering out to forage the perimeter and reef.

View attachment 26424

There is a reef running between the floating boom and the top channel marker (near my distance measure) the carp often linger there. I have hooked several carp there now, initially when fishing for barbel. On barbel tackle they power into the reef and cut me off, almost instantly!

This river has a reputation for very big (50lb+++) carp. So I have stepped up my tackle and have hooked a couple here on the heavy gear. These fish have cleared the reef and gone through the weeds, one was hooked early in the season when weed growth was still thin. That fish made it all the way to the far bank and then headed downstream to the weir, there it found the rocks and cut the trace.

I am sure that Clive will think this was a silure, but it's speed still makes me think carp!

My heavy tackle is an 11' pike rod of difficult-to-determine TC, that can lift 4lbs easily but keeps on pulling. The reel was a Shimano 8000 OC Baitrunner with 30 lb braid , now swapped for a Mitchell Full Runner 5000 with 40 lb braid. The drag on the Mitchell seems particularly smooth and powerful, hope to find out soon! I also have an old Harrison carp rod, 3.5 lb TC with a Shimano Ultegra 14000 Ci4 with 40 lb braid, that may get put to use. I have never liked that Harrison rod though, maybe I have strange tastes in tackle!

I have been cut off with 40 lb mono traces so will use coated braid this year.

So, it's a tackle question mainly. Maybe the end rig and materials are the key, any suggestions?

I cannot get access to the south bank as they are private gardens.

A boat may be the only answer, but I would have to fish in it. It has been suggested to me to have my inflatable set up and ready to step into, but these fish are so fast to the snags my old bones would move me too slow!

Otherwise it's going to be a swim to avoid, as has been the case recently. I really don't like leaving hooks in fish!

I would try fishing from the entrance to the ecluse, where the last bush is, casting upstream and across and using a running rig rather than a bolt rig. The idea is to strike and put pressure on so the fish pulls upstream and across, away from the snags.

If that doesn't work pack up your camping car with enough stuff for a week and head for the Vienne between L'Isle Jourdain and Mazerolles or the Charente near Saintes.

 

[nottskev]

Regarding Steve's swim: there aren't such giants in my local river, but there are barbel that test your gear. There are some tempting snag swims with a low chance of getting your tackle back, even without a fish on. Then there are some previously tough but manageable swims where you find something has changed for the worse. Examples would be the outside bend swim with the stoned bank where you find the winter floods have rolled some rocks out further into the river. Or the previously clear deep swim where a tree torn from the bank somewhere upstream has now lodged below the surface. All things being equal ie I was on the bite straight away, fishing the swim from a good angle, using gear that minimised the risks etc, I won't carry on in that swim if I get a fish snagged or get cut off and can't see why the next cast should be different. It's frustrating when you know they're there, but sickening to leave big fish in with hooks and line attached.

 

[@Clive]

One of the advantages of using a sonar is that you can plot the swim quickly and easily to locate such snags. With that information you can better assess your options if you have any. Carp and barbel in my experience usually run directly away from the pressure being applied so you wouldn't use a bolt rig in these situations as the fish could run towards snags before you get time to apply strain from the right direction.

In summer I sometimes stalk carp of mid teens up to low thirties that feed in marginal weed. It is hook and hold or a lost fish so I use a 2.75lb deadbait rod, braked centrepin and 18lb line straight to the hook. The only other thing attached to the line is a sliver of wine cork with a slit in it. A snail on a size 4 hook a foot or less under the cork dropped into a small hole in marginal weed. The fish is hooked at the first sign of the cork dipping and the fish gets absolutely no line if I can help it. Usually I can stop a 20lb + fish dead so it only has the bend of the rod to travel. Then, after it tires it comes out the way it went, but backwards. The bigger fish can take a yard or so of line, but slowly.

If you have a valid plan then by all means give it a go. If it doesn't work out, then look elsewhere. But many problem swims can be solved with a bit of thought.

This is a twenty that got no line off the reel whatsoever.

And a catfish of over 20lb also hook and hold on more substantial tackle

 

[Steve Arnold]

Regarding Steve's swim: there aren't such giants in my local river, but there are barbel that test your gear. There are some tempting snag swims with a low chance of getting your tackle back, even without a fish on. Then there are some previously tough but manageable swims where you find something has changed for the worse. Examples would be the outside bend swim with the stoned bank where you find the winter floods have rolled some rocks out further into the river. Or the previously clear deep swim where a tree torn from the bank somewhere upstream has now lodged below the surface. All things being equal ie I was on the bite straight away, fishing the swim from a good angle, using gear that minimised the risks etc, I won't carry on in that swim if I get a fish snagged or get cut off and can't see why the next cast should be different. It's frustrating when you know they're there, but sickening to leave big fish in with hooks and line attached.

I have to agree with your last sentiment!

“Here There be Giants” - this might well be applied to maps of some rivers in France!

That is the dilemma when fishing the river Lot! You can use 1.5 lb TC rods for barbel and that will deal with any of the coarse fish that will take your bait - with the exception of carp and silure (Wels catfish)!

So the conclusion I have come to is that some swims are just too risky to fish - for the welfare of those Giants.

I have settled on rods of about 2.75 lb TC for much of my barbel fishing now. If the swim is reasonably open you can beat the carp with that power of rod, but the right rod will still have a bit of action for the smaller stuff. There are plenty of swims, in which I have never seen a carp, where the lighter rods are still perfect for fun with barbel.

The original question was "is carp fishing becoming too easy" - the "easy" word really does not apply here! Carp here are not overly hard to find and hook, but this river has so many trees, rocks and weirs an angler has to think hard about the swim, tackle and his own ability - and of course the welfare of the fish!

It has been a steep learning curve for me, this section of river is quite an obstacle course.

The swim I mentioned really needs the angler to sit in a boat just upstream of the spots I have seen or hooked carp. Maybe, when the weather and the river and my mood and health are just right, I will give it a go!

It's a scenic place to spend the day - as long as the sun is not too fierce!

 

[Old fisher]

My original post. ( IS CARP FISHING BECOMING TOO EASY ?) Seems to have now taken what for me is a step too far. The Magic Twig rig now it seems has stepped over the edge into the world of, Catch at all costs. The spring loaded self hooking bolt rig has as far as I'm concerned put the bolt rig into the very dangerous area of tethered fish, should you snap off say when casting out.

 

[peterjg]

Carp are great fish but there is just too many of them - now unfortunately they are just a nuisance.

 

[steve2]

Agree with the title of this post, yes carp now too easy to catch and therefore no longer anything special.

 

[rayner]

My recent visits to local water have been roach and skimmers. I have been avoiding the carp, just as well. They are like super subs cruising the lake around the lilies. Getting back to delicate tackle with the correct hooks instead of the meat hooks needed for bigger fish. As of yet, the tench are elusive if I have to wait until spring I will, It is a mission to catch a late-year tench + a crucian perhaps if I ignore the roach there will be a chance.