Is it the rod or the line that gives you fighting power?

[tommos16]

When fishing for carp recently, a friend and I both hooked up with low doubles. I played mine on a light test curve quiver tip rod (well below a pound) on 12lb line, 10lb hooklink, and had no issues. He was on a 2.5lb tc rod and struggled like mad on 8lb line and 6lb hooklink to control the fish.

The above would be down to bad angling I'd imagine, however, it did get me thinking. Is it the blank or the line that's doing the work, or a combination of both?

Obviously a 3lb rod with 25lb line would just be a case of reeling in, but if I were to have a heavy carp set up (so no fear of breakoffs) on a light rod, would I be fighting for a while?

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[rich66]

Those line to rod combinations seem a little odd but I could be wrong. Which could have contributed to your friends dilemma


Anyway I think it’s a combination of both rod and line matching one against the other. This will give you the best fish playing combination


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[sam vimes]

Sometimes, a more powerful set up can just provoke a fish to fight even harder. Ultimately, it's all about finding a balance between rod (action and power) line strengths and hook sizes appropriate to the size of fish and the venue. Get things right and rather large bonus fish can be landed on very light set ups.

In the case of your mate's set up, I'd suggest that it's probably not particularly well balanced. The average modern carp rod is intended to cast fairly heavy leads a decent distance. Rarely are they through actioned fish playing rods. They have a nasty tendency to provoke any hooked fish into fighting harder than a lighter or more through actioned rod might. I'd also be a little concerned about the prospect of using the majority of modern carp rods with lines of any less than 8lb. Most carpers tend to use 10lb minimum, and the rods tend to reflect this.

What I would suggest to you is that you don't get too hung up on test curve ratings. Without knowing the action of the rod in question, they don't necessarily tell you a great deal. A through actioned 2.5lb rod is quite different to a tip actioned 2.5lb rod. I'd also suggest that you back away from the idea that you can simply crank a fish in on heavier set ups. Perhaps it could be done, but it definitely shouldn't be done, for the sake of the fish and your reel. However, in my experience, it simply can't be done with even fairly modest fish.

 

[nottskev]

You were on a tip rod using 12/10 line: he was on a carp rod using 8/6.

I think I'd consider swapping reels.

 

[tommos16]

Oh I've no intention of tow roping anything in. I like a bit of sport! In my case, it's a case of neccesary as it's the only rod I've got that's half way suitable to a venue with carp present on the hybrid feeder. I stepped up my line to stop breakoffs, I often fish lighter with it of course.

But thanks all, that makes a lot of sense to me. God knows why he was so light!

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[steve2]

I did once reel a carp straight in just to see how quick I could catch them. In this case using a stronge setup I reeled in an 8lb carp from hooking to landing in around 15 secs. Using the same setup and letting the carp fight you it would take much longer. I suppose at the end of the day is it better for the fish to land a it quickly on heavy tackle or play the for ages on light tackle.

 

[rayner]

I use two tip rods both cheap, a Drennan puddle chucker and a Browning abyss both around 50 quid. I in no way fish for big fish but manage well enough with the odd low double I occasionally get connected to. Heavy lines are not my thing the heaviest reel line I have is 6lb. When I used to boat fish on the sea I preferred to keep lines 18lb very rarely going to 20lb.
The clutch now on reels beats reels of only a few years ago making coping with lighter lines easy to me, my 6lb gives me all the confidence I need.

 

[Keith M]

I did once reel a carp straight in just to see how quick I could catch them. In this case using a stronge setup I reeled in an 8lb carp from hooking to landing in around 15 secs. Using the same setup and letting the carp fight you it would take much longer. I suppose at the end of the day is it better for the fish to land a it quickly on heavy tackle or play the for ages on light tackle.

I don’t think that that’s necessarily true Steve, if your skull dragging a Carp in on heavy tackle and taking only 15 seconds to land it then its very likely to be putting a lot of pressure on its mouth and you could give it some serious mouth damage.

I’ve caught Carp up to 22lb on 6lb line when fishing for Tench using a throughish actioned 1.5lb specialist rod on a lilly strewn lake, and I managed to steer the Carp (in the photo below) around a couple of large lilly beds without too many problems and without having to prolong the fight too much.. and it was the combination of both the rod and the line (although the rod played the main part) being well balanced that allowed me to land it without too many problems.



I wouldn’t normally use 6lb line for 20lb plus Carp in a lilly strewn lake of course but it just shows what you can do with a well balanced outfit.

Keith

 

[tommos16]

I caught a double on the 12/10 combo and it took me about 5 minutes. Just nicely playing it on the clutch. I then hooked a carp by mistake on 4lb/2lb and it took me half an hour. With a size 18. I was so paranoid of leaving a hook in that I let it go on the clutch as much as it wanted and it took me nearly half an hour. Great sport, but hairy, and probably bad for the fish. But it was an unintended (but grateful) hook.

I think I'll definitely fine down my lines on this rod once I've got a proper carp set up. Most waters I fish don't go beyond a 20lb carp anyway so probably won't be a disaster on slightly more sensible gear

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[tommos16]

PS, lovely fish Keith! And well angled mate

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[iannate]

The average modern carp rod is intended to cast fairly heavy leads a decent distance. Rarely are they through actioned fish playing rods.

I think that this sums up why your friend had problems, the rod is a tool to help you get the bait where you want it, using large weights for carp fishing was IMO more to do with bolt rigs than distance. I can cast much further with leads less than 25gms than anything heavier (matched to a heavier rod).

I only use heavier lines to cope with wear and tear on the line from casting out the heavier weights, constant stretching will break lines very quickly, I rarely went above 4lb many years ago until I started fishing on the river Severn, I soon felt the effect on the line when using 2oz feeders under my feet, let alone all the weed that came back.

What I try to do when catching more lively fish is to let them have a good charge about further out before I start trying to bring them in, I'll back-wind if they have another run in them. For me, keeping them at a distance allows the stretch in the line to offer you some cushioning on any lunges and also gives you a bit more time to respond and read the fish.

 

[Richox12]

As you state 'fighting POWER' comes from the rod. But............that doesn't mean that using a powerful, strong rod will get fish in quicker. Often it actually makes the job harder as fish fight more. Plus you simply risk snapping your line or pulling/gaping the hook by applying so much pressure.

It's the same principle as pole elastic. Often heaver/thicker/stronger elastic just provokes the fish into reacting & fighting more.

 

[markcw]

I never fish for carp, apart from when I used to run an annual bread only match. The water used had at the time a good head of golden tench, silvers, crucians , and carp mirror, grass and a decent sized koi.
One match I won fishing the pole ,that's a few carp and golden tench.
The year after I decided just to take a float rod and feeder rod, Got to the venue and realized I had picked the wrong holdall up.
I fished the match with a 13' Harrison GTI spliced tip rod, and a waggler rod.and couple of reels with maximum 3lb line on them.I didnt bother setting feeder rod up due to the majority of the fish visible on the surface or sub surface, This water was 20' deep in parts and I drew a deep water peg .
I fished a slow floating piece of bread and caught the majority of my fish on the Harrison, after a couple of fish I had confidence in my set up, the reel had 2.8lb line on it, The majority of the carp were around 6lb with a couple of low doubles , i won the match.
If your gear is balanced and play the fish and not let the fish play you, you should have a good day fishing.

 

[tommos16]

Thanks all, sounds a hell of a day Mark! I must admit, I find myself at a weird Crossroad. I love the idea of targeting mainly middle double carp yet don’t particularly fancy going down the bomb boilie and 3 buzzer route. So I think I may stick to a similar approach, slim down my line a little and enjoy the sport. If nothing else, it can teach me a lot about fishing I reckon. And that’s no bad thing. So far this forum has been brilliant for me, I’m thankful to everyone who replies


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[108831]

Im afraid in the main lots of anglers struggle to understand their tackle's capability,on 5/6lb line and a mid power match rod,if necessary I can stop carp to mid doubles dead in their tracks,I dont like to do this,preferring to let them run and play them out,but,if the swim requires I hit and bring them thrashing to the surface,12/10lb line combination is tackle that I would expet to have relatively short fights from carp(not 20lb fish though),even on 1lb 8oz test curve barbel rods,it is difficult to hang on to a fish that you know can break 6lb line like cotton,but with the right combination of rod and line(and hook,reel etc)lots of things are possible,as has been said already,balanced tackle is key...

 

[john step]

I would not use either of those rod and line combinations. Both seem out of balance to me.

 

[Hertsbloke]

Thanks all, sounds a hell of a day Mark! I must admit, I find myself at a weird Crossroad. I love the idea of targeting mainly middle double carp yet don’t particularly fancy going down the bomb boilie and 3 buzzer route. So I think I may stick to a similar approach, slim down my line a little and enjoy the sport. If nothing else, it can teach me a lot about fishing I reckon. And that’s no bad thing. So far this forum has been brilliant for me, I’m thankful to everyone who replies


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I use a cheapy Maver Feeder rod, with the lightest tip on nealry all the time. My reel is a Daiwa Matchwinner with Preston 8lb feeder line.

Caught my PB with this setup - 17.4 Carp.....

Like you, I fisgh commies with some lumps in...

CBA to go the full Carp setup and dont want the aggro or cost....

 

[The Sogster]

Length of rod also makes a massive difference. A longer rod will give more leverage to the fish, simple physics around a fulcrum. An 8oz roach on my 17ft rod can feel considerably heavier than on a similar actioned 10ft rod

 

[no-one in particular]

I think the best I did was a 15lb carp on 5lb line and a float rod. But at some point a length of weed wrapped itself around the line and slid down to the car's mouth and I think it covered its eyes to some degree as well; it went dead quiet after that and I reeled it no problem.
I have often wondered if I did that deliberately when trying to play a heavy fish, would it work and would it be cheating.

 

[markcw]

Length of rod also makes a massive difference. A longer rod will give more leverage to the fish, simple physics around a fulcrum. An 8oz roach on my 17ft rod can feel considerably heavier than on a similar actioned 10ft rod

A lot of short chuck feeder rods for commercials are around 9' I have put a bigger tip in a silstar diaflex wand that does the same job,
The shorter rods allow easier netting of F1's and the occasional carp if one shows up.
The reason behind it is that you are not reaching out as far with net as would be using a 12' set up, the fish have come closer in to net, their heads up to surface quicker on short rod, and rod does not have to be held as high preventing hook pulls,