Is it the rod or the line that gives you fighting power?

[108831]

Imo long rods equate to longer playing times of all species of fish,if you have a 12ft and a 15ft and fish a venue with similar sized fish its usually pretty obvious,there may be be certain blank/rod variations,but I for one haven't found one as yet...In fact the leverage angle doesn't prove true to me,because as the rod lengthens the rod softens in action,if it was a lump of iron bar it would increase leverage,but not with a flexible rod blank I'm afraid...

 

[Keith M]

I tend to catch Carp in places which have a lot of near bank weed and lilies and also a lot of overhanging branches that are overhanging the water along the edge, so find a longer rod is much better tool for me as being longer I’m able to pressurise the fish away from these potential bankside snags and try to keep the fish from burying their heads in them a lot easier than if I had a short rod. I can also steer a Carp away from lilly beds further out a tad easier using a longer rod using a bit more side strain. so it’s more than just having leverage. I also much prefer a rod that has a nice forgiving action than a shorter poker of a rod and I find that a rod which has a more forgiving action can tire the fish a lot faster than a short poker of a rod; and is less likely that a fish will shed the hook during the fight.

I used to often use a short 10ft rod for catching Carp (and Barbel) but often wished it had been a bit longer when fishing weedy places especially when I had the fish under the rod tip; but not always though it depended largely on the swim I was fishing.

Keith

 

[108831]

It's not a short poker of a rod that I meant really Keith,I believe that a 12ft rod of the same sort is better than a 15fter for fish extraction,ive had carp to 25lbs on match rods on 4lb hooklengths in summer when the Norfolk reeds cause a real problem with them,that said I wasn't fishing for carp but understand the limits of the tackle I'm using and try to exploit them in that situation....

 

[tommos16]

I would not use either of those rod and line combinations. Both seem out of balance to me.

Without doubt John, but it’s early days for me yet and very much a case of “needs must”


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[108831]

That is totally understandable,we have all been there mate.

 

[barbelboi]

If fishing reasonably close in for carp around the 20lb mark my favourite setup is a Harrison 1.5 Avon Specialist, Shimmy 5000 AeroGTE and 8/10lb ProGold. I always feel that I'm in complete control......

 

[Phil Heaton]

Its balance between the rod stiffness and the line strength, a soft actioned rod will cushion the line better than a fast actioned rod and you will get away with a lower breaking strain line.

 

[john step]

Without doubt John, but it’s early days for me yet and very much a case of “needs must”


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I bet if you and your mate swapped reels for the day the outfits would be better balanced?

 

[108831]

Might find the other guys reel is rubbish though,eh???

 

[valetudoguy]

From a physics point of view it's a complex question, ignoring the effort put in by an individual fish (and its size) you are still comparing; Line, Rod Acton, test, length, handle length, elevation and distance.. before even considering the factors of the reel.

But matching line to rod is relatively important

 

[Paste paul]

It is a difficult question to answer but balance is crucial.......
My float and feeder rod gives me and ideal line rating on them

So I stick to this........
The line I like to use is the older brands maxima simply because of the stretch factor in my mind stretch is a good thing in my fishing anyway.... it gives me An extra buffer .......
On the other hand finer lines sink better so it’s getting an adequate balance that suits you....
I always use a 4lb line on the rod above ....
The rod is quite a strong action but has a softer top to deal with smaller fish.......
I bought a cheap tricast commercial feeder rod which for the money was ok but what I found was although it was strong and wouldn’t break it was quite soft and dealt ok with small carp but just bent double with bigger fish so I didn’t have much control with them.....so I use it for f1 fishing and match the line to it ......

 

[108831]

Line guidance on rods are very much a 'guide' and in the main taken with a pinch of salt(apart from acolytes perhaps)and used as a generalisation for anglers with experience,I have an Acolyte Ultra 13ft,which is a light rod,ive had major holding on battles with chub and barbel on 3lb line,what I did find was that compared to other rods I own I just don't have the holding power to bully chub from reeds on the Acolyte,so dont use it for them,opting for the right rod for the job in hand.

 

[lakhyaman]

I suspect action, as Sam Vimes says, is what transfers the power of the rod to the fish. I often fish with 12 lb line (Berkeley fluorocarbon) with a number of my float rods when fishing at my rod tip in the margins with the thickness of the line helping out on the abrasion front. But if the following video is correct then a through action rod out powers a tip action rod, like for like, on the basis of more of the length of the rod being used to provide the power. Don't know if that makes sense but my through actioned or non lock up rods certainly stop fish better than my tippier rods.

I have used this image before but that is my 13ft specimen Hardy Marksman float rod and it had no problem bending into and stopping that 22 lb Catla in short order. The reel is a fly reel loaded with 12 lb fluoro.

All the best

Lakhyaman

 

[tigger]

Lakhyman, for what it's worth, my opinion, is that a through action rod is less powerful than a tippier actioned rod of the same test cure which has a progressive action of which will bend right through as pressure is applied.

This is why you might find a lot of float rods can actually apply more pressure than a through actioned avon rod.

If you set up a true through actioned rod blank next to a tippier actioned rod blank, both with the same test curves and add weight to them to see their actions....you would see the through actioned rod bends way down the blank to reach it's cure, but, the tippier actioned progressive rod will reach it's test curve and still have lots of power left lower down the blank.

No idea if that makes sense?

 

[lakhyaman]

It should make sense but that YouTube clip is quite revealing if you have time to watch it.

All the best

Lakhyaman

 

[tommos16]

Lakhyman, and all, thanks for the reply and what an excellent photo and fish! Great fishing mate, hope you are well


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[barbelboi]

Lakhyman, for what it's worth, my opinion, is that a through action rod is less powerful than a tippier actioned rod of the same test cure which has a progressive action of which will bend right through as pressure is applied.

This is why you might find a lot of float rods can actually apply more pressure than a through actioned avon rod.

If you set up a true through actioned rod blank next to a tippier actioned rod blank, both with the same test curves and add weight to them to see their actions....you would see the through actioned rod bends way down the blank to reach it's cure, but, the tippier actioned progressive rod will reach it's test curve and still have lots of power left lower down the blank.

No idea if that makes sense?

I agree with you Ian. As an Avon’s action is all-through, by the time the rod bent anywhere near to its full load it is bent down to the handle. This will give you a good 90 degree bend, which might be reflective of it's test-curve, i.e. 1.5lb of force.

There is a good chance that the match rod will have a test-curve somewhere around 8 ounces. So, after a decent strike the rod would have achieved its' test-curve. But, as match rods tend to be more tip-actioned to progressive the bend at the point of test curve will still be within the top third of the rod. There is still two thirds of the rod with which we can apply a loading to. This is all in addition to any test curve. It could be that, by the time we have applied considerable (but safe) force to either the point where the blank 'locks-up' or we reach the handle, there may be 2lb or more of pressure.

 

[tigger]

I agree with you Ian. As an Avon’s action is all-through, by the time the rod bent anywhere near to its full load it is bent down to the handle. This will give you a good 90 degree bend, which might be reflective of it's test-curve, i.e. 1.5lb of force.

There is a good chance that the match rod will have a test-curve somewhere around 8 ounces. So, after a decent strike the rod would have achieved its' test-curve. But, as match rods tend to be more tip-actioned to progressive the bend at the point of test curve will still be within the top third of the rod. There is still two thirds of the rod with which we can apply a loading to. This is all in addition to any test curve. It could be that, by the time we have applied considerable (but safe) force to either the point where the blank 'locks-up' or we reach the handle, there may be 2lb or more of pressure.

I think/know you described that a lot better than me bb .


Oh, get yer hair cut!

 

[lakhyaman]

I suppose I'm being obtuse but that clip I put in my original post shows a 2.5 lb tc rod putting nearly 3 times more pressure as measured by tying the line to a scale and pulling the rod to a 90 degree angle between tip and butt as compared to a 3.25 lb tc rod. The difference was the lighter rod had a more "through action" while the higher tc rod had a tip action. I have used fly rods with ordinary line as float rods and found them to be the ultimate "servo" brake when it came to stopping fish in a reasonably short distance without giving any line at all.

I am sure I am misunderstanding something.

All the best

Lakhyaman

 

[tigger]

I suppose I'm being obtuse but that clip I put in my original post shows a 2.5 lb tc rod putting nearly 3 times more pressure as measured by tying the line to a scale and pulling the rod to a 90 degree angle between tip and butt as compared to a 3.25 lb tc rod. The difference was the lighter rod had a more "through action" while the higher tc rod had a tip action. I have used fly rods with ordinary line as float rods and found them to be the ultimate "servo" brake when it came to stopping fish in a reasonably short distance without giving any line at all.

I am sure I am misunderstanding something.

All the best

Lakhyaman

They used braid on one rod and mono on the other !
That video was very misleading...imo.