Large Mouth Bass in the UK?

[Krang]

My understanding is to do with water temperature at the right time of year, haven't heard about more suitable populations so feel free to enlighten me.
On our fish farm rainbows could spawn successfully In the feeder stream, the water came out of springs from chalk south downs at a constant temperature all year and escaped rainbows would find a bit of gravel and spawn ok - but this was only a couple of hundred yards of waterway! We produced the first commercial triploids in uk, the scientist (long forgotten his name) came and showed us how, from there it escalated. Think we did brownies as well later on.

I have fished for natural wild rainbows in Alaska and believe me, our version are a pale imitation of the real thing. Regards carp being introduced species, I'm fine if we get rid of them too ?.

What I've read suggests that there are some autumn spawning strains of rainbow trout but that the ones in the UK are all spring spawners. Autumn spawners would be better suited.

 

[steve2]

F1 they are alien in that they are a manmade species bred for one purpose that is to stock commercial fisheries. Same could also be said for most carp that are bred to be big fast growers to boost anglers egos. Carp are the only species that bred for this purpose apart from large stock trout.

 

[Krang]

F1 they are alien in that they are a manmade species bred for one purpose that is to stock commercial fisheries. Same could also be said for most carp that are bred to be big fast growers to boost anglers egos. Carp are the only species that bred for this purpose apart from large stock trout.

Fighting an invasive species with a monster of a fish

www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk

 

[Molehill]

What I've read suggests that there are some autumn spawning strains of rainbow trout but that the ones in the UK are all spring spawners. Autumn spawners would be better suited.

All the rainbows that we stripped for hatchery were autumn, oct/Nov months if I remember - this was the 1980s.

 

[Krang]

All the rainbows that we stripped for hatchery were autumn, oct/Nov months if I remember - this was the 1980s.

Really? Everything I've read suggests that the self sustaining populations of rainbows in the UK are all spring spawners. Were any of your autumn spawners stocked while fertile? I don't see why water temperature would be any more an issue for them than it is for browns.

 

[markcw]

If muskies became a problem we could just get the alligator gar.

Were you dropped on your head as a kid,
You post some right Boll0x

 

[Krang]

Were you dropped on your head as a kid,
You post some right Boll0x

It's not "Boll0x", alligator gars are known to control dangerous invasive species like carp.

Jordan Fielder, a nineteen year old boy, was enjoying a fun day on the Illinois river with his family when all of a sudden a large fish launched from the water like a missile, and smashed into his face. The fish fractured his nose, dented his forehead, and shattered bones in his eye sockets and brow. Jordan commented, “If it had hit me any harder it could have broken my skull bones and essentially damaged my brain and killed me on the spot". For Jordan this was a fun family day on the river, turned to a near death experience. The fish responsible for this, is the invasive Asian carp, which is overrunning the Illinois river and its surrounding waters including the Mississippi,

Alligator Gar As Means To Control Asian Carp – Debating Science

blogs.umass.edu

 

[markcw]

It's not "Boll0x", alligator gars are known to control dangerous invasive species like carp.

Alligator Gar As Means To Control Asian Carp – Debating Science

blogs.umass.edu

Any reports of that happening in the uk ,?
As for Asian carp,the EA electrofish fish waters that have them in or run a net through, remove them and destroy them.

 

[rayner]

F1 they are alien in that they are a manmade species bred for one purpose that is to stock commercial fisheries. Same could also be said for most carp that are bred to be big fast growers to boost anglers egos. Carp are the only species that bred for this purpose apart from large stock trout.

I agree with what you say. I dislike F1s because they interfere with my fishing, mostly because they feed similarly to roach. There are so many in waters that roach is just bullied out of the swim.
I couldn't care less about which species owners want to stock just as long as they don't stock the F1s in every water they have.
I find it difficult to understand why the stock in fisheries you don't fish galls you so much. So what if they're a fish stocked into commercials! you don't fish there.
This is not a dig at you just curiosity.

 

[markcw]

Ye

It's not "Boll0x", alligator gars are known to control dangerous invasive species like carp.

Alligator Gar As Means To Control Asian Carp – Debating Science

blogs.umass.edu

Yeh, let's introduce a fish that in theory is capable of growing to 10' and 300lb.
The waters over here are to cold to support the alligator gar anyway, also it is an opportunist feeder, in that it wont chase prey fish, just lies in wait. So the majority of "invasive carp" are safe.
Instead of cherry picking items you think will suit your theories , try posting something constructive.

 

[markcw]

I agree with what you say. I dislike F1s because they interfere with my fishing, mostly because they feed similarly to roach. There are so many in waters that roach is just bullied out of the swim.
I couldn't care less about which species owners want to stock just as long as they don't stock the F1s in every water they have.
I find it difficult to understand why the stock in fisheries you don't fish galls you so much. So what if they're a fish stocked into commercials! you don't fish there.
This is not a dig at you just curiosity.

Gary, have you tried setting your stall out just for roach/silver fish on commercials, ? There are some big roach to be had on these now, They are feeding on the high feed content baits that are going in. Also if the fishery stocks ide have a go for those as well
I have fished a few matches on commercials where it's best to start on a "catch anything that swims approach"
I have have some brilliant roach and ide doing this,
That's not to say I dont mind catching F1's whether in a match or not,
Some commercials seem to have it right with stocking, others seem to go over the top with them.

 

[rayner]

No, Mark, I have an urge to fish for bream. There's a fishery not far from home that doesn't have F1s there are some carp but they aren't so much of a pain if you feed groundbait in any quantity. I can catch Ide they are a fish that's heavily stocked and soon become a bore, I will target them on occasion. The older I get the more particular I become about what I catch from the places I fish.

 

[markcw]

There are some decent bream in a water I fish, I have had nothing under 2lbs,
One day I got into a shoal by mistake ( I had had a carp at first, but I was targeting the large tench, who didnt want to play) and I was getting fed up of catching bream between 2lbs and 5lbs.
My net was solid with bream slime for a couple of days despite being hosed of every few hours, You think you have it all off and when it drys you see a bit you missed

 

[Ray Roberts]

I went fishing for alligator gar a couple of years ago. Five runs and no hook up’s, f&£@ alligator gar’s, the boney mouthed b”£;@ds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Krang]

Any reports of that happening in the uk ,?
As for Asian carp,the EA electrofish fish waters that have them in or run a net through, remove them and destroy them.

That doesn't work though. Not for zander, signal crayfish or anything. Maybe it hasn't happened here yet, but it will sooner or later. It's hardly right to wait for some poor kid to get smashed in the face to do something about it.

Yeh, let's introduce a fish that in theory is capable of growing to 10' and 300lb.
The waters over here are to cold to support the alligator gar anyway, also it is an opportunist feeder, in that it wont chase prey fish, just lies in wait. So the majority of "invasive carp" are safe.
Instead of cherry picking items you think will suit your theories , try posting something constructive.

Well everything I've found on the topic says that aligator gars are effective at controlling carp. The fact that they would struggle to survive winters here is a bonus. You could just release them each spring until the carp were all gone. Nobody gets smashed in the face and one cold winter and no chance of the alligator gars becoming a problem themselves. Maybe you'd get a few small populations in places where the water stays a bit warmer through winter. Similar situation to rainbow trout. A far better outcome than carp spreading all over and smashing people in the face left right and centre.

 

[markcw]

That doesn't work though. Not for zander, signal crayfish or anything. Maybe it hasn't happened here yet, but it will sooner or later. It's hardly right to wait for some poor kid to get smashed in the face to do something about it.



Well everything I've found on the topic says that aligator gars are effective at controlling carp. The fact that they would struggle to survive winters here is a bonus. You could just release them each spring until the carp were all gone. Nobody gets smashed in the face and one cold winter and no chance of the alligator gars becoming a problem themselves. Maybe you'd get a few small populations in places where the water stays a bit warmer through winter. Similar situation to rainbow trout. A far better outcome than carp spreading all over and smashing people in the face left right and centre.

These are Asian carp, that jump out of the water at the sound of outboard motors, very common in parts of the USA,
John Wilson and Chris Tarrant filmed them while they did a feature on fishing over there,
How many waters in the UK do you know that have Asian Carp in them ?
I knew of one in the north west, it had 4 in , one died of natural causes, the other three were netted out by the EA and destroyed.

 

[Molehill]

Really? Everything I've read suggests that the self sustaining populations of rainbows in the UK are all spring spawners. Were any of your autumn spawners stocked while fertile? I don't see why water temperature would be any more an issue for them than it is for browns.

I do recall that spawning is dependent on both water temperature cooling but also daylight hours shortening (onset of autumn), which is when all rainbows were stripped of eggs on fish farms. I have no experience of a sustainable wild population in uk.
In alaska they would spawn in the spring, but then in the autumn there the rivers are heading for freezing and will soon be several feet of ice all winter. So autumn spawning there would result in

What I've read suggests that there are some autumn spawning strains of rainbow trout but that the ones in the UK are all spring spawners. Autumn spawners would be better suited.

I'm trying to remember if I've had a complete brain fade on my recolections of timing on the fish farm. Without digging out (finding first) old photo albums and checking dates of me stripping fish etc. I can't be 100% on dates now, am going back to mid 80s!

I know started with the brownies in autumn and then thought we went straight through to rainbows after, I remember egg picking in winter months and on other farms. But I also now recall us buying in eggs from farms in Europe and possibly US so maybe that is what we had. I could be muddling everything up. As everyone wants early eggs (to get the growth for next years stocking) and obviously table fish farms need a constant supply, fish were manipulated to produce eggs early or late by selective breeding or controling light input - so anything was possible and some specialist egg producing farms could supply all year for any country.
Spring spawning seems correct in wild, you are right on that but I can't get out of my head all the hatchery work I had to do over Christmas every year!

 

[The bad one]

Really? Everything I've read suggests that the self sustaining populations of rainbows in the UK are all spring spawners. Were any of your autumn spawners stocked while fertile? I don't see why water temperature would be any more an issue for them than it is for browns.

Can you supply your references to the scientific papers you have read this in please?

 

[mikench]

I know an old lady who swallowed a fly............

We don't need invasive species to help eradicate other species we don't have. Get real Krang. If you want to lure fish for Alligator gar go to Louisiana.

 

[Philip]

Same could also be said for most carp that are bred to be big fast growers to boost anglers egos. Carp are the only species that bred for this purpose apart from large stock trout.

Impressive crowbarring of Carp iinto it once again.

And no....by that measure you could consider any fishery with a stock pond to be growing fish on to "boost anglers egos"

As for introducing species to control another one i recon we should just bring back T-Rex and move things to the end state quicker.