RICHARD WALKER AVON MK IV

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

Isn't it strange. You would think that a person of my age would be the traditionalist old fart, now we have Tony Rocca who I reckon I could give 30 years, wanting to go back to the 50s.

Tony I virtually gave up cane rods for coarse fishing when we started smashing 'em on decent fish. One of my mates at the time smashed a brand new Mk IV on a Swale barbel. Tag Barnes smashed another Mk IV in '63 when he tried to stop an 18 lb carp reaching a tree root. When I came back from a 2 week trip to Ireland in '64 my Mk IV Avon had a sorry droop in it, caused by dragging big tench out of lilies.

By 1964, most cane rods were rubbish, mainly because lousy tonkin stated to come into the country and many manufacturers started cutting corners. They were not seasoning nor tempering it properly.

 

[GrahamM]

Mark is right when he says that test curves are just a handy reference.

After all, we do need some kind of 'measure' simply to get an idea if a rod is heavy, medium or light. However, as others have stated, test curves and carbon rods do not make for accurate figures - they are just a guide. Similarly, we use BS as a 'rough' guide to line strength, although line strength figures are abused by the manufacturers.

When I designed the Harrison Interceptors in the mid-90's the first one was rated at 1lb 12oz TC, which I considered ideal for its purpose at the time, which was bream and tench fishing at distances of 60 yards and more. But for fishing at shorter range I wanted a slightly lighter rod so that maximum pleasure could be gained when playing a fish, but this rod would still have to have enough backbone to stop a big tench and tire a big bream.

We used the same mandril and experimented with using a little less wrap of carbon and eventually I was satisfied it was just right. It was heavier than 1.5lb but lighter than the 1.12. Hence the 1lb 10oz Interceptor was born.

So is there really such a thing as a 1lb 10oz test curve? No, of course not, but it is the nearest you're going to get to putting a power figure on a rod.

Many rods are rated wrongly because those who have tested them do not understand what they are doing, or they do and don't care......

You see, it's very, very difficult to break a modern good quality carbon rod just by bending it in the normal way. You can hang a 3lb weight on a rod and pull the tip to 90 degrees, which is a reasonable indicator of its test curve. But you can hang several more pounds of weight onto that same rod without breaking it. Once the rod has reached its genuine test curve it locks at that point; not an absolute lock, but so little movement from that point it's negligible. It's very easy to add what weight you want at the TC point and call the rod whatever you want if you're so minded.

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

That's right Graham. If you use a high quality carbon rod as it is designed to be used - for fishing, you will find it impossible to break.

Those of you who were at Go Fishing 2006 will most likely have seen the tests conducted on their carbon blanks by Daiwa, hosted by our Bob. This shows just what a high quality carbon blank is capable of withstanding.

Daiwa also make high quality carbon.

 

[Fred Blake]

Quite right Graham; if you want to find out a rod's test curve and action, do it yourself. Whilst I would be prepared to accept a rating on a rod made by a specialist firm - such as Harrisons - I am always suspicious of the cheaper-end rods; not that I use them, but others do and often ask me what I think of their new rod. Diplomacy is usually called for if our friendship is to survive!

And as you say, once the tip is at right angles to the butt, the addition of more weight doesn't make much difference apart from causing a bit more of the tip to straighten out. If more people understood what is meant by a tangent things would improve; to get a true test curve the rod must be loaded (by running a line through all the rings, as has been pointed out already) and weight added to the end until a line drawn through the extreme tip of the rod forming a tangent to the rod's curve just - and only just - makes an angle with a line drawn through the butt of 90 degrees.

This test must be carried out with the butt fixed horizontally and the load allowed to hang free of the tip; to carry it out any other way will gaive a false reading.

To say that test curves are meaningless is like saying breaking strains are a meaningless way of assessing lines; just because some firms choose to under/over rate their products does not mean the principle should be abandoned. Setting a rod up and loading it to determine its true test curve will also demonstrate its action; as Ron says, if the test curve is reached with only the top part of the rod deflected it tells you that the rod has additional power over and above the test curve which, in theory, can be utilised to cast heavier weights - provided that the line strength is increased proportionally of course.

This reminds me of a discussion I had with another angler not long ago. A match rod is really just a fast taper rod with a light test curve. By the above rationale it should be possible to utilise the strength lower down the rod to cast heavier weights and use stronger lines, yet how many anglers find a match rod to be a satisfactory tool for, say, feeder fishing?

The main difficulty as I see it is the cushioning effect of the tip reduces casting accuracy and striking efficiency. I still prefer a through action rod if I can get away with it - only resorting to the fast taper if distance considerations demand it; for my type of fishing that is rare, although I appreciate that for others it may be more common.

 

[Tony Rocca]

Ron, you dont look 76, I take your comment as a great compliment.
I agree that some of the latter mass produced canes were poor in quality, they often came apart, so Im told. Thats why mine were built by me. Landed Trent carp to upper double figs, the biggest in a flood, and more double figure barbel than you can wave a MK iv at from rivers all over this fine land of ours.
Takes all sorts doesnt it. I would be proud to take up the mantle of "old fart", no doubt I will one day.

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

So do you build split cane in the old traditional way Tony using tri-angular formers and decent epoxy resin adhesive?

And do you use tonkin poles that have been seasoned for at least 30 years?

And do you harden the cane properly using a gas flame? There is a lot of skill in that, I can assure you!

Then why not quote me on a little 8 foot two piece fly rod blank to take a 4 weight line.

I can do the rest.

 

[Tony Rocca]

I can say yes to all those Ron but cant vouch for the 30 yrs bit, my supplier might fib.
Peter Johnson of Olivers showed me how.

I build for no one except me, it takes way too long when you only do it now and again.

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

Ah but Tony, why not set yourself up in competition to Barder. They charge ?1500 for an 8 foot fly rod. You have only to send one of your rods to the right celebrity, someone like Chris Tarrent or Jeremy Paxman or Graham or Bob Roberts and you are made.

Any of these people will review your rod in The Times.

Think of it. A nice steady job doing what you enjoy for the rich and famous.

And making a fortune with it.

You could even send one of your rods to Ed!

)

 

[Tony Rocca]

Ron,
Barder is far better than me and hes always skint anyway, so Im told.

Im rich enough anyway thanks Ron.

Check out some of the Yank rod building sites, very good and far cheaper. They still value a good bit of stick over the pond.

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Ed I was educated by Jesuit priests - they don't know the meaning of good time! Good thrashing more like. Did fish Calderstones Park though with a mate who lived on Menlove Avenue.

 

[Sean Meeghan]

On the subject of using match rods for heavier fishing I remember a piece in Angling magazine in the 70's on using a Hardy Matchmaker for beach casting with lightish leads

On the subject of test curves it would probably be better to use a dynamic test which measures absorbed energy a bit like a charpy impact test. This would probably be a better measure of casting capability and maybe even the cushioning effect of the rod.

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

And Sean,

Did ye heave a good toime on St Paddy's day to be sure begorra and be Jasus.

My son is also called Sean, Sean Patrick to be exact.

Jesuits are those people who invented the most hideous form of torture during the Inquisiton by the way.

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Ar fheabhas go raibh mile maith agat

They carried it on at their schools! Probably not in good taste that!

 

[paul williams 2]

You mean Jesuits are members of the BS Ron?

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Not mean enough to be BS members!

That'll get me in trouble with the barbel police!!

 

[Steve Clements]

Fred Blake,v. informative posts, you are causing a rethink on my previous purchases.
never tried cane but did'nt like glass too much. Always been intrigued by the 'hexagraph' concept.You appear to have an engineering/materials background,good input,
thanks for making my mind swirl,
regards.

 

[Fred Blake]

Thanks Steve - I did study material properties amongst other things at college, which has proved useful in a fishing sense, if not a professional one!

 

[Peter Bishop]

As a new member and Richard Walker Mark 1V owner-and occasional user-the previous four pages of posts have been fascinating,certainly Fred Blake knows his onions (shaped cork handles) and bergundy whipping from his Tonkin. Yes, they are heavy, yes, they droop and yes, they are probably outdated and should be consigned to a glass case, but boy are they wondeful to play a decent fish on. If, like me, you bought it as an investment(?250) because you could never afford one as a kid in the Fifties/Sixties, you wonder about the logic of it all when it arches over into a precarious parabolic curve under the lunges of a handsome tench. But oh, the sense of achievement when you land that fish! Theres nothing wrong in being nostalgic, some of you might get all wistful in 30 years time when you come across a Drennan Tench Float rod that hasn't been crushed in its tube by the front wheel of you sons mountain bike. Live and let live is my motto. If fishing with old cane rods gives you pleasure fine, if you prefer modern carbon (and I have both and fish the pole too)great. The main thing is to ENJOY.

 

[Old fisher]

Yes Dave. 186 Northfield Avenue, W. Ealing.

I know this reply is 19 years late but my B James price list has the same road as your info but mine says 192 Northfield Avenue W. 13

 

[steve2]

Cliff Glentons tackle was 193 Northfield Ave. Bought a few rods from there in the early 70's