bennygesserit
Well-known member
We mis understand each other that's exactly what I thought I had just said.
Anglers v Canoeists – Court Case Looms…
- Thread starter FishingMagic
- Start date
We mis understand each other that's exactly what I thought I had just said.
thecrow
Well-known member
Yes your correct Geoff, should have said willing to police it.
---------- Post added at 08:27 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------
Is there a law against organisations promoting the breaking of the law?
Yes, there are, but first you have to have an established Law and that is what we anglers need to have defined by a Court.
stu_the_blank
Well-known member
Well let's hope that Fish Legal are successful then! After all, nobody else is likely to have a go.
We'll just keep on moaning, very effective.
Stu
Personally I am not expecting the Paddlers organisations to bring anything to the party until and unless this finally goes to the Courts.
This ATr. letter is just the first round fired in what will be a long battle before this particular was is won.
So I say, well done to the Angling trust and I hope we keep the pressure up and not allow this initiative to fall by the wayside . . . . . . . .
thecrow
Well-known member
Perhaps its the moans that have brought about this and other action by the trust.
nicepix
Well-known member
I agree. It is one step of a long process, but it must be done to show that everything has been tried before legal action is taken through the courts.
As Chairman Mao said; "Every journey begins with the first step."
bennygesserit
Well-known member
I think that may be true the fish legal PDF certainly mentions forums
B
binka
Guest
Aiding and abetting?
geoffmaynard
Content Editor
No. They've been working on it in the background for a couple of years, it's a lengthy task putting a case together though. I know Will Rundle at Fish Legal and he's very thorough.
---------- Post added at 21:53 ---------- Previous post was at 21:51 ----------
But, we already have the laws Peter. What we don't have is any of the authorities with the balls to enforce them.
no-one in particular
Well-known member
I have fished all over southern England for years, I cannot remember ever having one problem with a canoeist or anyone really come to that.. Of course I read a few incidences every now and then on the websites, laws of averages and all that but, I just cannot see how this is such a big problem to worry about.
That will be another group of people who will hate us eventually, the list will grow. I worry about this, the long term affects of all this belligerence. I don't like it much.
That will be another group of people who will hate us eventually, the list will grow. I worry about this, the long term affects of all this belligerence. I don't like it much.
Last edited:
stu_the_blank
Well-known member
Constructive engagement might get a response, sniping from the sidelines from the cover of anonymity and hiding behind a keyboard won't, don't kid yourself.
As Geoff pointed out, they've been working on this for a long time, these issues are not easy to resolve, they require a great deal of thought and hard work. You should be thankful that there is somebody out there prepared to take it on, on our behalf. Alternatively, keep on sniping and let the paddlers quietly take over!
Stu
All I can say then Mark is that you have been very fortunate indeed not to have had your fishing path crossed by paddlers who have no rights on most rivers in the Hampshire and Wiltshire counties.
Personally I would be very worried indeed if the paddlers achieved their aim of a silent but effective take over of our rivers. We pay huge sums of money annually to fish rivers like the Avon, Test, Itchen, Nadder and Wylye while the paddlers want absolute and total right of access for nothing . . . . . . . and not to mention their activities in shallow water during spawning season that they appear to care nothing about!
If the price of uninterrupted fishing on these rivers coupled with trouble-free spawning for the fish turns out to be a group of people who "hate us" then so be it.
To be honest I am not at all enamored by them or their illegal antics . . . . . .
no-one in particular
Well-known member
Fair comment Peter-I used to fish the Hamp Avon quite a lot in the 80's and 90's and I used to visit relatives in Winchester and walk the Itchen quite a lot as well. I cannot recall seeing canoes on either river. Not once. The situation must have changed a lot since then and I had not thought of the spawning aspect.
Two canoes passed me two weeks ago and they moved to the far side of the river. I exchanged a few pleasantries with them and that was it. That's my usual experience, boats as well, sometimes they even cut their engines as they pass.
I appreciate this probably not the norm for some anglers however, How many anglers went out this weekend and had a problem with canoes? Most went to a commercial or their club waters which I doubt any canoes were present. The 20% say that went to a river; I doubt 1% experienced a problem if that. I just cannot see it as regular national problem.
Local problems as you mentioned should be dealt with as that. If we are going to have a national campaign to restrict every canoeist freedom which is probably what it will come to, they will just be another enemy. The two canoeists I met two weeks ago will, in future slough right through my swim deliberately whilst saluting me.!
I don't know, I just wonder if we are making a bigger rod for our backs sometimes.
The problem is exactly with what you have said here.
Most of our rivers here in the southern counties see little angling pressure, and many are just too expensive for most people to afford. And it is for his very reason that the paddlers feel that they can flaunt the existing laws regarding PRN with impunity.
In the last 9 days I have seen, and reported to the Police paddlers on stretches of the Hampshire Avon that they have absolutely no right to be on whatsoever.
Therein Mark lies the crux of the problem, they simply don't have the right to freely paddle on rivers where no PRN exists, and currently they are being encouraged to paddle we here they know it is not legal by their relative associations and union.
It is because of exactly this that the Angling Trust have rightly taken up the anglers cause and are prepared to fight this in the Courts to get a once and for all ruling on the matter.
thecrow
Well-known member
And you sniping at my posts does nothing either, anonymity? is your user name your real name ? pots and kettles?
The trust may have been working on this for a couple of year (and you knew that of coarse didn't you?) what initiated the work? couldn't have been complaints about paddlers could it?
Can you show me where I have "sniped" at the trust in this thread please? or where I have said I would like to see the paddlers take over or even how my posts would have anything to do with that?
Could you tell me what you have done about the canoe problem? and how you know I have done nothing??????
---------- Post added at 11:16 ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 ----------
no-one in particular
Well-known member
You will have a more in depth knowledge of this than me. I appreciate there is a problem in some areas that needs to be dealt with. I hope its successful. I also hope it doesn't become an all out national war between canoeists/boats and anglers. My own experience for the most part has been polite and amicable (although I also appreciate that's not the case for everyone) and I wouldn't like that to change. We will just have to wait and see.
---------- Post added at 10:44 ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 ----------
Again, anglers are to bothered about what others might think of us, most of the public don't know the first thing about angling and the good it does and whats worse is they don't care.
If a few paddlers the majority of whom if what I see on TSOTP is correct think less of anglers because they cant get their own way I for one couldn't give a toss.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say I overly worry about it but, over the years I have enjoyed a fairly amicable relationship with the general public. Boat users , canoe users, walkers, bird watchers farmers, and generally most people. And I think that would be a better thing to maintain if possible. I don't think it will be.
Last edited:
stu_the_blank
Well-known member
My name is Stuart Birrell for what it's worth. Grow up.
---------- Post added at 14:50 ---------- Previous post was at 14:49 ----------
Yes I did. I am a riparian owner of a stretch of river. I have to deal with the problem and have been in discussions with the ATr for a while about the problems.
---------- Post added at 14:53 ---------- Previous post was at 14:50 ----------
'Jobs for the Boys and a snipe at every opportunity Crow, I can't believe that you're bothering to make the point, back to what you consider clever debate no doubt.
You haven't but if all we've got to defend ourselves against this extension to 'Right to Roam' is people like you, we've got less than Bob Hope.
---------- Post added at 14:54 ---------- Previous post was at 14:53 ----------
See above. Just a wild guess.
Stu
thecrow
Well-known member
B
binka
Guest
To be fair crow, and from an onlookers point of view...
In response to your comment above it appears to me that Stu has done considerably more by backing the organisation that are trying to address this issue of paddlers.
If it weren't for Stu and people like him then the funding wouldn't be there to support the organisation and without the organisation who's gonna fight our corner?
And not just on this issue...
Insert huge black hole > here <
