Big pike are not hard to catch

jono

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Im new to lure fishing but dont you think that some lures work better on a straight retrieve rather than eratic, such as spinnerbaits and grubs? In my short time lure fishing (less than a year) my results on these lures have been better on a straight steady retrieve.

PS what a great thread
 

Greg Matthews

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derek. what you wrote about fishing lures is so true.during the week went on the web to trawl through the american lure fishing sites.the all say the same thing make sure to tune your lures properly and fish them properly.it was a real eyeopener to look at these sites.the fact that you have been doing this for years helps us when you impart the information to us.there are so many things i never took into account when lure fishing.thatno wonder i wasnt as succesfull lure fishing.the most important thing i have learned is to believe that they work and work they will.and as derek says location,location,location of the big girls.nice to see some intelligent imput to the thread.the subject of lure fishing has very few proper experts we are very lucky to have derek on this site.and gord burton on the p/p site.long may it last.
 
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Andrew Macfarlane

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Jono, there are straight retrieves and then there are straight retrieves. Most novice lure anglers simply whack a lure out as far as possible and then wind the lure back at a constant speed, that very rarely changes between casts. Certainly, that can and often does work but a straight retrieve doesn't have to be quite so mechanical.

Let's take a spinner as an example. It's the simplest of all the straight retrieve lures to operate. You can just cast them out and wind them back and they do cover a lot of water but I think they can be made to do a lot more than just hum along, singing the same old tune. Varying the speed throughout the retrieve is fairly obvious but you can let them sink and then rip them up again, sink and draw style. Another trick is letting them stall without the blade stopping. If you give the spinner a good fast crank and then sweep the rod back and then pick up your line while maintaining a tight line, as you bring the rod back to the forward position, you can make the spinner 'hang' momentarily on the spot with the blade still turning. I hope I described that action correctly. Sweeping the rod from left to right to left repeatedly will make the spinner change direction more noticeably as the lure approaches. There are more techniques that can be employed but the main idea is to mix these retrieve styles up as much as possible within a single cast. All of these styles are still basically straight retrieves but it demonstrates that it doesn't need to be monotonous. Apply these ideas to any straight retrieve lures and they'll all come to life.

It's also worth noting that some lures that are thought of as purely 'worked' lures, such as jerkbaits, often benefit from the opposite approach. Take the Salmo Slider. I mentioned that it is a very easy to learn glidebait. Getting a walk-the-dog type action out of it is fairly simple to master but it works very well if you simply throw it out and wind it straight back it. It's a very realistic, photographic lure so it passes itself of as a real fish fairly easily. Wound straight back in, it wobbles ever so gently and just sometimes, that is all it takes to warrant a hit. Erratic retrieves are, as Derek says, more productive for the most part. That is without question but just sometimes, when all else fails, remember that novices catch fish when the experts are blanking so casting and winding should never be discounted.
 

Derek Gibson

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Jono, as far as spinnerbaits go I take your point mate, they are one lure that will succeed equally well on a straight retrieve. What I do say is don't limit yourself to falling into the trap of believing that a straight retrieve will consistently be the way to go. For example where there are sunken bushes, trees, branches or beds of lilies, weed beds etc helicoptering the spinnerbait would be the only practical way to approach those swims.(a single blade spinnerbait would be the best option) because it's a yo-yo kind of action.

In running water pumping the spinnerbait will often produce hits where a straight retrieve fails. Always try to remain flexible mate, in the long term you will discover that approach will prove its worth. Glad you like the thread.

P.S. if you haven't already, get yourself a couple of good inline bucktails, they ride slightly higher in the water, and are ideal for fishing over submerged weedbeds or lakes, gravelpits with excessively contoured bottoms ,gravel bars etc.
 

jono

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Thanks Derek, would you be able to reccomend a decent make of bucktail? Also I notice that you like using big soft plastic baits. I have got some of the fox pro shads in 7 and 11 inch but cant seem to catch on them. If i rig them with a jig head I have to reel tem in quite quickly to stop them catching bottom (with stinger trebles attached) but if I rig them on big single hooks and no other weight they just sort of corkscrew their way in, any advice please?

Thanks Mark
 

Derek Gibson

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Hi Mark, there are a number of bucktails available today. The ones I use are the American versions made by ''Hirsch's''. ''Ghosttail'' is the model name, another would be the ''Windels'' versions, or anything by ''Moores''. I have quite a few of the ''Moores'' I brought back from the States. If you're interested P.M. me I'm sure I can sort you out without you paying through the nose.

As regards the shads, I gave up using them a while back. I found them to be more trouble than they were worth, others may disagree but that's my opinion and a honest one. The trouble with lures Mark is that it's a minefield of potentially emptying you wallet. There are lures already available that will fulfill all your needs. I can give you guidance, but in the final analysis you must decide.

Don't worry about asking questions mate, I'm only too happy to help. This is an exciting branch of pike fishing, be ready to be engrossed.
 

Derek Gibson

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Andrew, not only do novices catch fish, but to the dismay of experienced anglers often catch outsize fish. Of course not much credence can be placed on such fish other than they ''were'' caught. Seasoned veterans often get themselves into a tizzy about such happenings.

Have you had much success yourself on inline bucktails Andrew, I'd be interested in your views.
 

jono

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Cheers for the input Andrew, at the start of the year (after watching some lure fishing videos) and reading up on sites such as this one I was really trying hard to work every lure with twitches / pauses / jerks etc with very little success, but of late after watching a chap who has been lure fishing for a while, i noticed that he was using lures in a more subtle way and since I have been using a more straight/steady retrieve my results have improved.

Maybe its just a confidence thing, I know there is more than one way to skin a cat so I am willing to keep experimenting. Would the type of retrieve depend on the type/ size of water?
 
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Andrew Macfarlane

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Derek, I do alright with bucktails. I fish them as I would a spinner as described above. The 'Inhaler' bucktails are very good but lately I've been making my own out of muppets, grubs and shads. I call them Flying Shadtails because they are more of a hybrid lure, akin to Flying Cs, Bucktails and Shads. Talking of shads, I think they're the business. What I do is remove the belly treble, if there is one and gang it onto the back single, so I can hop my shads slowly along the bottom without fear of snagging up. I also find that by ganging the treble onto the back single, I lose a lot less tails to nip-offs. I normally cast them out, let them hit the bottom and then tighten up to them. I then either sweep the rod upwards and retrieve my line as I bring the rod back to the forward position, whilst allowing the shad to hit the bottom again and repeat the action so my lure is hopping along along the bottom, all the while maintaining a tight line or I simply hold my rod in the 11 O'Clock position and just crank the handle once or twice, again so that my lure hops along the bottom, kicking up silt or ducking and diving through the weed. Takes are usually felt through the rod as a dull thud. It's hardly noticeable but as long as you have that tension all the time, all you have to do is press your thumb down on the spool and thump the rod high and hard to set the hooks. It's a very lazy way to fish but my God it's effective.

Jono, I'd say retrieve speeds have more to do with the pike themselves, rather than the water you're on. Sometimes the pike want you cranking as fast as you can and take my word for it when I say a pike can hit a lure easily no matter how fast you reel and sometimes they want your lure to barely crawl along so they only have to flare their gills to inhale your lure but that's what you have to ascertain.

The Flying Shadtails....
HomemadeFlyingShadtails.jpg



My shad hooking arrangement....
th_HammeredJigs.jpg
 

Derek Gibson

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Andrew, once again we appear to be working along similar lines. What you do with your shads is not dissimilar to my ''doctored replicants'', hopping the lure slowly along bottom with the occasional burst is a favourite ploy down in Lincolnshire. Even in winter after hard frosts have cleansed the drains and rivers of weed. I've tried the gang single on a number of the plastics, but then experienced a few problems. It's been a few years now since I last tried, perhaps I'll give it another whirl to reappraise because at my age a lazy way to fish is becoming increasingly desirable.

The take you describe as a ''dull thud'' is exactly that and still excites the hell out of me, even after half a century, am I sad or what?

Fred Wagstaff used to say, there was no fish that swam in fresh water that a big pike could not overhaul in a burst, very true that!!

Size of water is irrelevant - mood of the pike is.
 
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Andrew Macfarlane

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Ganging singles has it's problems firstly with alignment as you know. It's hard pushing a single into the rear of a shad and them finding the eye of that single with the point on your jig-head. It often takes takes several attempts and by the time you've succeeded, the shad looks like it's been munched by a pike without ever having seen one. The second problem is finding a suitable single with a large enough eye to accept the point and barb-width. Like you, I gave up and simply opted for the treble on the back. It seems to be a lot simpler, with no loss of fish and I've never had a fish that could get the treble off the back single.
 

Derek Gibson

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Andrew, my approach to the shads was slightly different. I didn't use a jig head, but being aware of the problem Jono described - that of lures corkscrewing. I obtained several packets of those long shank singles with the kinked shank for use with plastics ( can't remember the name) gang hooked two in the back of the shad, and added a length of lead wire to the balance point of the shad,by simply pushing it into the belly.That worked a treat as it stopped the corkscrew effect, and the shad retrieved true with the addition of keel weight.None of which however overcame my major objection, that of durability.

So a few short years later, by necessity developed a lure that to this day remains one of my best ever lures, but it's a hybrid, a combination of plastic and wood. Several mates and I have been giving it trials for nearly two years.

I could send you details if you wish - don't want to go public for a while longer. Hope you understand.
 

jono

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Is there any chance of people posting pics ofsome of their more effective lures on here (like Andrew has) so that we can see what they actually look, rather than just lure names that may mean nothing.

Derek, any chance of posting a pic of the large plastic lures that you use as initially I thought you meant shads?

Cheers Mark
 

Derek Gibson

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Mark, being a dinosaur I've only just switched to digital camera's. I'll have a word with my old mate Ron the hat on how to go about it, as I haven't a clue. When you come over to have a day with me you may be surprised, oh and by the way Mark,what's your standard lure gear? Rod, reel, braid, it will give me an idea on where we might go, and what we might throw. I'm sure you'll enjoy it and hopefully nail a few. I'll sort you a few lures out tomorrow based on the casting weight of your rod.
 

Rickrod

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You could do a chapter on this in your book Derek which i would buy
 

jono

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Hello Derek Iv got two set ups

1) 9 ft Abu ruby crest rod (15-40g), fixed spool reel with 50lb power pro. I Use this with spinnerbaits and small crank baits.

2) 6'6 Daiwa powermesh jerk bait rod (6oz), ABU 6501C3, 100lb+ Strenn super braid. I use this with jerkbaits.

Cheers Mark
 

Derek Gibson

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Rickrod, what particular aspect do you think deserves a chapter? Lure modification, or lure gear? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jono, the Daiwa Powermesh will be ideal mate, I use one myself from time to time, and always found them to be a nice bit of kit.

I'm keeping close tabs on the water I have in mind for your visit, looking forward to it mate, hope you are.
 

Rickrod

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Lure modification and making your own lures would be good
 

Greg Matthews

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derek.is there any books you would reccomend on lure fishing.or maybe a dvd or video.
 
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