wanderer
Well-known member
No good talking chinese old chap, explain for the idiot, me.
Flavourings a catch or a must
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No good talking chinese old chap, explain for the idiot, me.
No idea what this means, but if some repel that's suggesting it could actually be detrimental to your fishing. And actually force fish away from the feed ?
Is that what your suggesting "Laguna"
wanderer
Well-known member
I thought he was talking about alchahol free Noddys mums, then i put my glasses on.
Keith M
Well-known member
Just to throw something else into the mix; I remember reading about how a bait flavour can taste completely different in waters with different PH levels which can be one reason why a certain flavouring can be attractive to Carp in one water but not in another.
Keith
Keith
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Pete Shears
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Fred Wilton,inventor of the boilie,reckoned that if you could smell the flavour it was too strong; Rod Hutchinson also had a section in his first book where he mentioned that over flavouring bait could have a repellant effect on fish when they got too close.
iannate
The fish made me do it!
What we can detect in the air is not the same as a fish can detect in water, the processes are not the same.
IMHO, if we can smell something that is included in a bait, then that might indicate too high an inclusion level; however; we all have a different sense of smell, so this can't really be used as a true test of the effectiveness for inclusion levels.
IMHO, if we can smell something that is included in a bait, then that might indicate too high an inclusion level; however; we all have a different sense of smell, so this can't really be used as a true test of the effectiveness for inclusion levels.
If a strong smell would reduce the chances of catching how does that explain the effectiveness of cheese for example. The stronger the better definitely were cheese is concerned. Its been suggested to add additional strong cheese additives to the mix to increase the strength of smell
That would be a contradiction to the theory if you can smell it its too strong would it not ?
That would be a contradiction to the theory if you can smell it its too strong would it not ?
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laguna
Well-known member
Glycerite extracts are best because they are alcohol-free and 100% natural. SAC™ juice - The World's-first 'Glycerite' liquid bait additive!
- alcohol has a denaturing effect on proteins and amino acids (its a poison) and masks the smell of food by substituting it for something man-made that smells nice to us but not necessarily to the fish. The idea is, if it smells nice we are more likely to buy it!
But even some (but by no means all) man-made artificial flavours can signal food to a hungry fish as they learn by association, but it can also signal danger. Most man-made 'flavours' are made by combining alcohol with acids to produce a nice smelling (to the anglers nose) synthetic (not nature identical) ester.
Its a question of do the fish know the difference? I would suggest they do, and probably why they spook and the bait blows... it depends how hungry they are?
Not all are created equal though. The combination and ratio of synthetics can have a positive or detrimental effect, and as Keith said; pH levels in the water will alter the chemistry.
Keep it real
- alcohol has a denaturing effect on proteins and amino acids (its a poison) and masks the smell of food by substituting it for something man-made that smells nice to us but not necessarily to the fish. The idea is, if it smells nice we are more likely to buy it!
But even some (but by no means all) man-made artificial flavours can signal food to a hungry fish as they learn by association, but it can also signal danger. Most man-made 'flavours' are made by combining alcohol with acids to produce a nice smelling (to the anglers nose) synthetic (not nature identical) ester.
Its a question of do the fish know the difference? I would suggest they do, and probably why they spook and the bait blows... it depends how hungry they are?
Not all are created equal though. The combination and ratio of synthetics can have a positive or detrimental effect, and as Keith said; pH levels in the water will alter the chemistry.
Keep it real
laguna
Well-known member
Cheese is real food. Overpowering? yes but it works no doubt about it because its natural and as you say; the stronger the better. Natural and real foods will always work -everywhere!
The Sogster
Well-known member
The flavouring I have most faith in is N-butryic acid especially in the depths of winter one drop added to a batch of cheesepaste or couple of tins of meat. Great in coloured high water.
Perhaps it should be mentioned on the 'Passive Angling is bad for your health' thread but stranglely it also seems to stop other anglers lingering in your swim and you are guaranteed a space at the bar or near the fire at days end.
Perhaps it should be mentioned on the 'Passive Angling is bad for your health' thread but stranglely it also seems to stop other anglers lingering in your swim and you are guaranteed a space at the bar or near the fire at days end.
grizzley81
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When I've been on waters that have allowed boillies I've had more success with less potent smelling and slightly sweet smelling if I remember it was nutribaits strawberry. I can see some anglers buying them because they smell nice so what happened with pro logic crustacean dip and powder my god that stuff ponged and inked and never did catch with it
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laguna
Well-known member
Who takes the cap off the bottle to smell it and thinks Yeah! that's sure to catch?
I'm not sure what percentage of additives sold to anglers are artificial, but chances are, many haven't even tried the real thing, its no wonder some say they don't work.
By the real thing I mean an extract not a flavour.
The difference is huge.
Fish can become accustomed to that 'false' chemical smell and home in on the baited area, but they can also spook. Most Humans can't tell the difference and anglers often add a bit extra for luck, inadvertently masking the natural smell of bait and ruining their chances. In short, Flavours cover up and ****** up amino acids and enzymes which fish find attractive.
Flavours are just that, flavours. They're NOT real, they're artificial and most of them attract anglers more than they attract fish. Only an alcohol-free extract is real, can't be overdosed, smell and taste natural (because they are), won't blow or spook fish like artificial (man-made) flavours and they work everywhere, all-year-round.
Flavours are a waste of money.
I'm not sure what percentage of additives sold to anglers are artificial, but chances are, many haven't even tried the real thing, its no wonder some say they don't work.
By the real thing I mean an extract not a flavour.
The difference is huge.
Fish can become accustomed to that 'false' chemical smell and home in on the baited area, but they can also spook. Most Humans can't tell the difference and anglers often add a bit extra for luck, inadvertently masking the natural smell of bait and ruining their chances. In short, Flavours cover up and ****** up amino acids and enzymes which fish find attractive.
Flavours are just that, flavours. They're NOT real, they're artificial and most of them attract anglers more than they attract fish. Only an alcohol-free extract is real, can't be overdosed, smell and taste natural (because they are), won't blow or spook fish like artificial (man-made) flavours and they work everywhere, all-year-round.
Flavours are a waste of money.
iannate
The fish made me do it!
Isn't alcohol produced as part of the fermentation process used in some baits
Or is it more specific to certain ingredients?
I do agree that "flavours" attract anglers far more than fish, the evidence is in the press, on forums and at the tackle shop where we [anglers] sniff or look at bait and say (sometimes out loud ) "that looks fishy!"
The problem is we all have good days when we do something (some have used alcohol) but never really duplicate it for any length of time, this is all the evidence we need.
Or is it more specific to certain ingredients?
I do agree that "flavours" attract anglers far more than fish, the evidence is in the press, on forums and at the tackle shop where we [anglers] sniff or look at bait and say (sometimes out loud
) "that looks fishy!"The problem is we all have good days when we do something (some have used alcohol) but never really duplicate it for any length of time, this is all the evidence we need.
grizzley81
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I'm quite curious do these companies make flavor enhancers for sea fishing or is this a completely stupid question
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laguna
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Fermentation is a natural process that produces alcohol as a bi product. The yeast associated with fermentation dies once the tolerance levels reach certain thresholds. The yeast itself is bacteria and its this bacteria that fish find so attractive NOT alcohol, though often the alcohol is associated with bacteria so fish may come to investigate. Alcohol itself is poisonous to all living creatures and will denature proteins to the extent where they become totally inedible. Adding alcohol to bait will ruin it as it provides no nutritional value whatsoever.Isn't alcohol produced as part of the fermentation process used in some baits
Or is it more specific to certain ingredients?
I do agree that "flavours" attract anglers far more than fish, the evidence is in the press, on forums and at the tackle shop where we [anglers] sniff or look at bait and say (sometimes out loud
The problem is we all have good days when we do something (some have used alcohol) but never really duplicate it for any length of time, this is all the evidence we need.
A natural fermented product like CSL is really quite good, but adding extra alcohol serves only one purpose and that is to mimic nature in the hope that fish can be tricked into thinking it contains bacteria. Adding it to winter baits will also protect it from freezing but its not 'attractive' in its own right it just keeps the bait soft and soluble for a while.
The vast majority of man-made 'flavours' contain alcohol in the form of a synthetic ester i.e. alcohol/acid combo, many of which smell nice to us mere mortals.
Not stupid question at all Grizzley. Yes they do but its more prevalent in freshwater circles.I'm quite curious do these companies make flavor enhancers for sea fishing or is this a completely stupid question
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Many of these flavours are labelled 'nature identical' in the hope you will buy them but in reality man cannot replicate nature.
The thing is; man doesn't know the difference because our senses are primitive compared to fish olfactory.
You may need to do some research but if you can find them, extracts are far and away superior to man-made flavours. :w
ontrentangling
Member
I think every flavouring has to be taken on its own merit, and their effectiveness differs greatly between different waters. PH, water clarity, undertow and all manner of things affect the success or failure of both flavours and additives.
Without a lot of research, which is lacking in my eyes, I can still attest that oil-based, natural additives tend to work well in most conditions. Water based additives dissipate rather quickly and so I wouldn't bother with them at all. If you're looking to add a bit more oil into your swim then tuna, vegetable oil, hemp oil .etc. are all natural and work well.
A lot of flavourings and palatants are there to catch anglers, not fish - I regard nutritional value and breakdown time much more than something which smells nice to me. In terms of store-bought liquids and glugs, Marukyu Amino+, Korda Goo and Sticky Cloudy Krill are about the only ones I have any confidence in.
Without a lot of research, which is lacking in my eyes, I can still attest that oil-based, natural additives tend to work well in most conditions. Water based additives dissipate rather quickly and so I wouldn't bother with them at all. If you're looking to add a bit more oil into your swim then tuna, vegetable oil, hemp oil .etc. are all natural and work well.
A lot of flavourings and palatants are there to catch anglers, not fish - I regard nutritional value and breakdown time much more than something which smells nice to me. In terms of store-bought liquids and glugs, Marukyu Amino+, Korda Goo and Sticky Cloudy Krill are about the only ones I have any confidence in.
iannate
The fish made me do it!
Thanks Laguna, that fills a few gaps in my knowledge
The problem I find when things are labelled as "nature identical" "extract" can mean very little as below.
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ota
Tuna oil:
Is this oil from a tuna fish or the oil drained from a can of tuna?
Either way I'm very much against using oil as an attractor [for personal use] since it is insoluble in water and floats to the surface anyway, mildly windy day and it's somewhere else; just like koo, don't know about the others you mention.
I've said it before, I've never used koo but there has been the stuff in my swim, it did nothing for me or the angler that spent all that money on it.
ota I'm not having a go buddy
The problem I find when things are labelled as "nature identical" "extract" can mean very little as below.
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ota
Tuna oil:
Is this oil from a tuna fish or the oil drained from a can of tuna?
Either way I'm very much against using oil as an attractor [for personal use] since it is insoluble in water and floats to the surface anyway, mildly windy day and it's somewhere else; just like koo, don't know about the others you mention.
I've said it before, I've never used koo but there has been the stuff in my swim, it did nothing for me or the angler that spent all that money on it.
ota I'm not having a go buddy
ontrentangling
Member
With regards to Tuna Oil, I generally go for extract, as I don't really see brine from a tin doing all too much. Though there are some people that swear by brine. If the tinned tuna I am adding to my spod mix is canned in vegetable oil, rather than brine, then I'll forgo adding oil and simply add all of the contents of the tin.
I like oil in moderation, but only in the right conditions. I make my spod mixtures up on the bank, which means that I have no choice to fish to the conditions on the day. If the wind is a problem, I'll avoid adding oils or anything else that will be easily swept away by the wind or the tow.
In terms of Goo, SBCK or Amino+, I typically only add them to my hook bait and sometimes the contents of my (small) PVA bags. Everything else is fairly bare. I just feel that a bit of "something extra" near the hook can't do any harm.
No worries Ian, I didn't think you were. It's good to get a lot of opinions on different methods and tactics, they can be very valuable when put into practice
I like oil in moderation, but only in the right conditions. I make my spod mixtures up on the bank, which means that I have no choice to fish to the conditions on the day. If the wind is a problem, I'll avoid adding oils or anything else that will be easily swept away by the wind or the tow.
In terms of Goo, SBCK or Amino+, I typically only add them to my hook bait and sometimes the contents of my (small) PVA bags. Everything else is fairly bare. I just feel that a bit of "something extra" near the hook can't do any harm.
No worries Ian, I didn't think you were. It's good to get a lot of opinions on different methods and tactics, they can be very valuable when put into practice