Major blitz against illegal angling in bid to protect fish stocks

[thecrow]

And how many of them do fishing? I'm one of theese immigrants I've got rod license, angling trust membership, two club memberships and didn't kill any fish for the time I lived in UK except trout where it is allowed. I'm sure that there is more immigrant anglers like me.
Even if UK leaves EU it won't make mutch diffrence because UK's bussines relay massively on east europe workers especially in health care and agriculture and they will keep employing them so leaving EU won't solve the problem.

It is a fact that lots of immigrants from Eastern Europe fish and fish quite legally, it is also a fact that some immigrants from Eastern Europe kill fish for the pot, its a fact that they know its illegal but they also know that it is so poorly policed by the EA that the chances of getting caught are minimal so they continue to do it.

It is a fact that net immigration figures have been rising for many years with as I said 333,000 during 2015 alone, this country is small and its resources are finite, more people in the country means more pressure on our already pressured rivers and if something isn't done to control the numbers living in this country those resources will in the end become exhausted there is already a shortage of water in the south of this country.

I am sorry that you feel hard done by as you fish legally, don't kill fish other than where its allowed but and its a big but its not the fault of legal anglers that EEs are blamed for fish killing its the fault of those illegal fish killers and the EA for not policing it correctly and if this country hadn't opened its borders to all and sundry the problem may never have arisen.

I wont comment on whether the UK should leave the EU or not or whether it would make a difference as it will be interpreted as not being angling politics and is not allowed according to the sites T&Cs.

 

[dunavski]

It is a fact that lots of immigrants from Eastern Europe fish and fish quite legally.

I'm sure that some percentage of theese immigrants do buy rod license which means more EA income, more tackle trade, more fisheries income. You are right that some of them kill fish illegally, but at the same time they spend money so I think that EA shoul put more bailiffs on the banks to control the extra ammount of anglers.

 

[thecrow]

so I think that EA shoul put more bailiffs on the banks to control the extra ammount of anglers.

You wont get an argument from me on that point, good to see that we can agree on something.

 

[no-one in particular]

If we stay in the green light will be given to the EU; the foot will will be pressing a lot harder on the pedal-and its possible our EA will be taken over by them, the license will become a EU licence/they will want that money, our land rights and fishing rights laws will be changed, countries that have been given restricted membership will have these restrictions removed over time to become full members. Many of our local angling by-laws will be abolished if not all or have to be ratified by the European court. The AT will become a small voice in a bigger world.
It could be a different angling landscape by 2030.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Markg, your post is so far wide of the mark as to be based on nothing but unsupported conjecture.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to prop up your argument; none of our local bye laws have to be ratified, or even agreed to, by anyone other than ourselves.

The facts however remain that the EU (with UK acceptance) has been responsible for many of our environmental improvements over the last 30 years and certainly not in any way, shape or form a hindrance.

 

[no-one in particular]

Markg, your post is so far wide of the mark as to be based on nothing but unsupported conjecture.

Everything is conjecture Peter, no one has any idea what will happen if we stay in or out, even all the politicians are only conjecturing, this is just my conjecture supported by what I believe is the nature of the EU, its future agenda, a United States of Europe (of which I have no doubts), and how in the long term this will affect the laws, land and fishing rights, license money etc. Because I am sure they will get round to these one day when all our laws will have to comply with European law or at least agreed by them.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to prop up your argument; none of our local bye laws have to be ratified, or even agreed to, by anyone other than ourselves.

Up until now! what about the future, can you be sure that will remain the same!

The facts however remain that the EU (with UK acceptance) has been responsible for many of our environmental improvements over the last 30 years and certainly not in any way, shape or form a hindrance.

Very true and I did not say whether I thought any of the changes that may happen if I am right are bad or good, just that they could happen and our angling landscape could be very different by 2030.

I don't think it is purely conjecture, I think it is all very possible and I could expound on why I think that a lot more but I would have to give an expanded view on the EU and what our membership would entail in the future. So I have kept it brief and as non political as possible.But I will say we only have what we have because the Eu have wanted to keep us in, that shackle will be removed for some time to come so my future scenario for angling is partly based on that as well..

 

[no-one in particular]

This is how I think it could happen. The EU will expand until it reaches its peak of countries that are eligible. They will deal with all the big legislation needed and then with thousands of legislators still in its employ it will get round to looking at by-laws of individual countries if only because they have little else to do!.. They will want to change them. By this time I suspect their powers would have increased considerably allowing them to do this. A treaty here a clause there because this how they have reached their current power. Seeping more and more control their way.
This may be a good thing, perhaps our by-laws, licensing, EA etc need shaking up; they don't seem to make many people happy!
However, my experience of bureaucracy/legislators is they have very little understanding of the laws they make, the effect they have in reality.
Would a Brussels legislator understand our by-laws, why they evolved, by people who live and understand the country or countryside they live in. Would a Brussels legislator have much knowledge about chalk streams for example, the importance of them, the fishing rights, the history etc. Would they just be another bit of EU water to someone sitting in a Brussels office were they want to make the laws uniform for all of them.
This is my worry.

That is all conjecture I know but we have to consider these things.

 

[thecrow]

That is all conjecture I know but we have to consider these things

Who would have thought that the common market that the UK joined would have grown into the ever expanding monster that we are ruled by now? If that was put forward years ago some would not have believed it but it has happened.

 

[theartist]

There are people living in tents where I used to go fishing, many more living on boats on the canal near where I am now. Went fishing last week and there was a guy sleeping on a mattress on the towpath next to his friends boat, if you could call it a boat. That isn't right.

There's many Eastern European anglers who practice catch and release but do we really think they are the majority? Of the ones I chat to most think were crazy for putting them back and they may have a point in a way but our waterways cannot sustain the growing population with many urban areas now devoid of fish like chub, pike and bream.

If leaving the EU made a drop of half a percent to net immigration then it would be worth taking the step as we are way too crowded and our fishing is being affected.

I could go off angling politics and tell how how things were in North London with the drain on infrastructure and overcrowding but I feel there's a naivety about immigration from people who haven't seen the impacts first hand.

If the real figures about our population came out then it would be interesting indeed.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Who would have thought that the common market that the UK joined would have grown into the ever expanding monster that we are ruled by now? If that was put forward years ago some would not have believed it but it has happened.

This is now getting way beyond Angling related politics.

I will however add this: If you had actually read the Treaty of Rome that we signed in '73, and ratified in '75, then you would have seen the ideals of the EEC as well as the basic tenets of the "4 pillars of Freedoms", being, the freedom of movement of, Goods, Services, Finances and People. And that was up front and centre so to speak, not hidden away anywhere in the verbiage.

---------- Post added at 12:02 ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 ----------

Moderation note:

The moderation team will be reverting to the previous policy on political comments here in the Forums.

Only directly related Angling politics will be allowed as per the T's and C's and Guidance notes in the forums.

There are very good reason why these rules apply to all, and you only have to look at the demise of many other forums as positive proof.

There are more than enough other places to vent your political comments; social media being full of them . . . . .

 

[no-one in particular]

I wouldn't worry,we have our secret weapon; Bill Oddie will sort it all out

 

[thecrow]

This is now getting way beyond Angling related politics.

I will however add this: If you had actually read the Treaty of Rome that we signed in '73, and ratified in '75, then you would have seen the ideals of the EEC as well as the basic tenets of the "4 pillars of Freedoms", being, the freedom of movement of, Goods, Services, Finances and People. And that was up front and centre so to speak, not hidden away anywhere in the verbiage

Sorry Peter but where did it say that the EU would be telling us what to do as far as regulating our riverine environment?

Are we not capable of looking after our own environment without interference from others because as far as I can see it isn't working.

 

[dunavski]

All my EE friends currently living in UK are fully licensed and C&A anglers even one of them is a regular match angler. You are right that some of EEs kill fish for the pot this is very common cultural issue. But if we do the math from all these 300k immigrants no more than few hundred do fishing and not all of them kill and remove fish. I don't think that they can do massive impact on fish stocks also I don't think that the immigration will stop so the only option according to me is to increase the control of the waterways and more severe fines. I used to think that the main fish killer is the pollution and loss of habitat.

 

[thecrow]

increase the control of the waterways and more severe fines. I used to think that the main fish killer is the pollution and loss of habitat

Absolutely but it wont happen we will just keep paying the fishing tax and getting less and less for our money.

 

[theartist]

All my EE friends currently living in UK are fully licensed and C&A anglers even one of them is a regular match angler. You are right that some of EEs kill fish for the pot this is very common cultural issue. But if we do the math from all these 300k immigrants no more than few hundred do fishing and not all of them kill and remove fish. I don't think that they can do massive impact on fish stocks also I don't think that the immigration will stop so the only option according to me is to increase the control of the waterways and more severe fines. I used to think that the main fish killer is the pollution and loss of habitat.

You're totally right on every aspect mate apart from the few hundred bit, assuming that 3% go fishing then that's 9k and that's a very conservative estimate given that the government figures are way off the mark.

The best way forward is education off guys like you and your mates as the extra bailiffing isn't going to happen as we all know which is a shame.

Loss of habitat will also come as a result of a growing population regardless of which nationality they are.

 

[dunavski]

I'm afraid that education also not going to work. Back in my country I'm trying to promote catch and release culture, but only thing I'm getting is mocking and angry responses. In my country the laws give you the right to keep up to 3kg or one big fish. When people are coming into UK they think that the rules are still the same and when we talking about EU I think that it would be a good idea to implement same fishing laws for entire EU so whenever country these people coming from they will know that the laws are the same everywhere.

Every time when I go fishing at moment when the fishery owner notices that I'm not english starts to explain that I'm not allowed to keep fish which tell that people have got more prejudices than real statistics.

 

[thecrow]

I'm afraid that education also not going to work. Back in my country I'm trying to promote catch and release culture, but only thing I'm getting is mocking and angry responses. In my country the laws give you the right to keep up to 3kg or one big fish. When people are coming into UK they think that the rules are still the same and when we talking about EU I think that it would be a good idea to implement same fishing laws for entire EU so whenever country these people coming from they will know that the laws are the same everywhere.

Every time when I go fishing at moment when the fishery owner notices that I'm not english starts to explain that I'm not allowed to keep fish which tell that people have got more prejudices than real statistics.

I agree that education is not going to work but its great to hear that you are trying to do what you can.

The prejudice that you experience at fisheries is wrong but as some tend to tar all EE anglers with the same brush it will happen I am afraid, its a shame that those that break the law here by taking fish are not helping the reputations of the many legal EE anglers that fish here.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Are we not capable of looking after our own environment without interference from others because as far as I can see it isn't working.

Environmental conditions, as well as environmental problems, know no boundaries and are not constrained by international borders (in the same way that sea fish also roam at will) so any any all environmental solutions have to be internationally proposed and agreed.
It is most definitely not a problem that can be solved by one small Country on its own.

 

[no-one in particular]

Environmental conditions, as well as environmental problems, know no boundaries and are not constrained by international borders (in the same way that sea fish also roam at will) so any any all environmental solutions have to be internationally proposed and agreed.
It is most definitely not a problem that can be solved by one small Country on its own.

This is not entirely right IMO, we started to clean up our rivers before we joined the EU. Councils can make by-laws to protect local areas to suit. Air is universal but our air is a lot cleaner than China's because we decided to clean it up before we joined the EU. If we had a 12 mile exclusion zone on our bit of sea we could protect a lot of species that don't roam far, a lot just stay within a particular stretch of coast. Our cleaner beaches are down to the Eu but we were capable of doing that ourselves and still could. Fish sanctuary's round our coastline if we expanded that, would largely benefit our fishermen and exclusively so! !!!!!
I am not saying it is worse in the EU or we would do it better but it is possible. At least we will know our home grown environment issues better than anyone else.
The main point is we would be capable of looking after our own environment to a large degree. Some wider issues may need agreement with the EU and international bodies but this could still be done as it would be in their interest also and we at least would be free to choose..

 

[thecrow]

Environmental conditions, as well as environmental problems, know no boundaries and are not constrained by international borders (in the same way that sea fish also roam at will) so any any all environmental solutions have to be internationally proposed and agreed.
It is most definitely not a problem that can be solved by one small Country on its own.

What environmental conditions are there that affect our rivers that are part of somewhere outside our physical borders? I can think of none other than invasive species in our rivers that got there while we were being controlled by Brussels.

I see no reasons why our riverine problems cannot be solved by ourselves without outside influence given the will and legislation to do it. We have tried the" do as you are told route" and it hasn't worked, do we just carry on being told what to do and choosing bits that we pay lip service to without actually completing them but continue to put out lies about how clean and healthy our rivers are.

Our river problems are not an international problem they are our problems and it should be down to us to sort it out not some unelected faceless voice in Brussels.