Frothey
Senior Member
I use it when I can without a stop above the hooklink - wih regards to registering a take, what's the odds on a fish swimming directly along the length of the mainline?
Origins of the "Chod" rig
- Thread starter dezza
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I use it when I can without a stop above the hooklink - wih regards to registering a take, what's the odds on a fish swimming directly along the length of the mainline?
Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)
Senior Member
As much chance as any other direction.
But I don't mean exactly along the length, just the general direction ie less than right angle to the mainline and tending towards you. In this case the resistance of the submerged lead will be less and the swivel will tend to slide up the line.
But I don't mean exactly along the length, just the general direction ie less than right angle to the mainline and tending towards you. In this case the resistance of the submerged lead will be less and the swivel will tend to slide up the line.
Frothey
Senior Member
so there's more chance it'll swim in another direction to directly along the mainline, and exactly at the same level as the mainline. the drag on the swivel going along the line will be enough to prick the fish if the hooks are sharp enough.
Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)
Senior Member
It does make sense not to have an upper stop. How do you know what distance to set it from the lead without knowing exactly how far the lead is going to sink into the silt?
Rodney Wrestt
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Doesn't the hooklink travel up the line on the cast?
Cakey
Well-known member
that can be good ..............the bait sits on top of deep silt or thick weed
Frothey
Senior Member
put paste around the swivel, though when I mentioned that before people couldn't seem to get their heads around it.....
The Bone Collector
Well-known member
Some of the Shropshire meres I fished had suspended silt so deep that if you were float fishing your bottom shot even a AAA would never reach its destination. The deeper you delved into it the firmer it became.
When we were making platforms on one particular water it took four full length scaffolding poles to find its way through the silt to reach a firm matted crust.
If you pushed the pole further into the crust it broke through the base and entered a deep thick black inky very smelly substance that when finally surfaced looked like petrol on the water. (Maybe there will be oil wells in Shropshire one day).
Some of the meres had much shallow deposits. So when using the Helicopter Paternoster Chod call it what you will, we lengthen the distance of the stop of the top bead from the bottom one. At the same time we would lengthen the hooklink.
The end result was that if you wound in with a stinking bait that had visibly darkened you would push the bottom bead up and push up the sliding stop knot. Along with the longer hooklink combined with a slow sinking pop up this would after experimentation lay on the upper layers of silt.
Once we had worked out the depth and consistency of the silt we started to catch.
Dave is quite right about the free running swivel and you are lucky enough to have him on this forum. I am surprised that he is quiet forthcoming about this method and the tactics he uses but quite rightly he tries to make you think outside the box.
It is extremely unlikely that a fish would casually swim along the line all the way to the rods, any resistance off that angle as long as the hook is super sharp as he says would be enough to prick the fish. Then when the fish bolts more resistance kicks in and basically the job is done.
I am pleased he did not go into greater detail because I believe that's what he wants you to find for yourself. Experiment with different hooklengths nylon, braids, fluoro, the length of them, the 'hair' the length of it. Daves given you a running start so use it to your advantage.
Rodney Wrestt
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Yeah Cakester, but I thought that was the idea of the float stop, I mean, set it 3' - 5' from the weight and that's how far the link will go up the line and then rest against it.
Ahhhh, I see, I remember your thread with this tip but didn't realise it had another purpose over the attraction of the paste breaking down, so you still set the distance the link will be from the weight, just in a more cunning way.
The Bone Collector
Well-known member
To Add to my previous post when we first used the 'helicopter' named by that great angler Alex Welland we used the bomb at the bottom, short length of tubing forced over the eye of the bomb.
On the tubing rested a fixed bottom bead, swivel with hooklength, and fixed top bead, the tubing was about three inches in length. This was to prevent Multi-strand from tangling on Frampton water in Gloucester a hard bottomed gravel pit. We are now in 1992 .
When I joined the Mangrove some years later 1998 the members had taken Alex's rig and improved it to fish over the silt. The bomb was still at the bottom attached to a spliced loop in lead core, bottom bead still fixed but six to twelve inches above the lead, a swivel and hooklength rotating above the bottom bead, top bead loose with a power gum stop knot six inches above the top bead resting on the swivel.
The lead core was spliced with a loop at the top and total length around three feet. To avoid tangles more mass (weight) was required on the hook so a simple stringer was attached. The extra weight made the hooklength revolve in flight hence Alex's helicopter.
The end result with a critically balanced bait worked like a dream and the bait more often than not came back not dark and smelly.
There can be a danger that if casting a PVA bag on a free running swivel due to its weight it could easily run thirty feet and even more up the line, without a stop knot this can happen, a bit like a flying back lead. On the other hand this may be an advantage depending on where you are fishing.
Finally apologies to you Rodney I thought that you were referring to Matt scoffing.....my excuse....?.....
well its been a hectic weekend so sorry again.
On the tubing rested a fixed bottom bead, swivel with hooklength, and fixed top bead, the tubing was about three inches in length. This was to prevent Multi-strand from tangling on Frampton water in Gloucester a hard bottomed gravel pit. We are now in 1992 .
When I joined the Mangrove some years later 1998 the members had taken Alex's rig and improved it to fish over the silt. The bomb was still at the bottom attached to a spliced loop in lead core, bottom bead still fixed but six to twelve inches above the lead, a swivel and hooklength rotating above the bottom bead, top bead loose with a power gum stop knot six inches above the top bead resting on the swivel.
The lead core was spliced with a loop at the top and total length around three feet. To avoid tangles more mass (weight) was required on the hook so a simple stringer was attached. The extra weight made the hooklength revolve in flight hence Alex's helicopter.
The end result with a critically balanced bait worked like a dream and the bait more often than not came back not dark and smelly.
There can be a danger that if casting a PVA bag on a free running swivel due to its weight it could easily run thirty feet and even more up the line, without a stop knot this can happen, a bit like a flying back lead. On the other hand this may be an advantage depending on where you are fishing.
Finally apologies to you Rodney I thought that you were referring to Matt scoffing.....my excuse....?.....
well its been a hectic weekend so sorry again.
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Rodney Wrestt
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No worries B.C. we all have off days and misunderstandingsTo Add to my previous post when we first used the 'helicopter' named by that great angler Alex Welland we used the bomb at the bottom, short length of tubing forced over the eye of the bomb.
On the tubing rested a fixed bottom bead, swivel with hooklength, and fixed top bead, the tubing was about three inches in length. This was to prevent Multi-strand from tangling on Frampton water in Gloucester a hard bottomed gravel pit. We are now in 1992 .
When I joined the Mangrove some years later 1998 the members had taken Alex's rig and improved it to fish over the silt. The bomb was still at the bottom attached to a spliced loop in lead core, bottom bead still fixed but six to twelve inches above the lead, a swivel and hooklength rotating above the bottom bead, top bead loose with a power gum stop knot six inches above the top bead resting on the swivel.
The lead core was spliced with a loop at the top and total length around three feet. To avoid tangles more mass (weight) was required on the hook
so a simple stringer was attached. The extra weight made the hooklength revolve in flight hence Alex's helicopter.
The end result with a critically balanced bait worked like a dream and the bait more often than not came back not dark and smelly.
There can be a danger that if casting a PVA bag on a free running swivel its weight could run thirty feet and even more up the line, without a stop knot this can happen, a bit like a flying back lead. On the other hand this may be an advantage depending on where you are fishing.
Finally apologies to you Rodney I thought that you were referring to Matt scoffing.....my excuse....?.....
well its been a hectic weekend so sorry again.
The above has explained what I pictured happening where Dave mentioned he forgoes the stop on the line, I could see the hooklink ending quite a distance away from where the angler intended to have the bait (that was until his paste tip
). 
Windy
Well-known member
Does no-one use the wool trick these days ?
