Otters – Action at Last?

[richard bowler]

iceman22
Re: Otters – Action at Last?
While I understand the over of fishing of eels has had an effect on the population however I have heard 2 things , one that the saragaso is full of eels not returning here the other is that there may be a parasite problem , what the cuddly otter lovers aint told anyone is when they cant find fish they will eat anything , including the protected water vole , any water fowl they can get hold of and even small children ( only joking they only give children a nasty nip )

To my understanding our freshwater eel now suffers from a parasitic fluke that affects it's swim bladder, while it can survive in freshwater with this, on it's return to the Sargasso sea it sinks into the abyss on passing the continental shelve. Eel populations are now down by 95%.
When my brother was getting involved with the Angling Trust I spent quite a few hours researching otter predation on the internet. It's main diet consist's of freshwater eel and silver fish in the 4-6 inch bracket, exactly what is missing from our rivers. One research I came across was the collection of otter spraints from a nature reserve in Somerset ( I've tried to find it this morning but haven't been successful ). The spraints were collected from the 1980 onwards, what made interesting reading was the fact that in the 80's and 90's no more than 10% of spraints contained water bird feathers around 2000 this figure went up to over 40% this they put down to the decline in eel numbers.
The fact still remains that the introduction of the otter only proved to highlight an underlying problem. Even if otters were culled this wouldn't help with fish recruitment, it wouldn't help with over abstraction , with pollution. With the otter in place as the publics favourite more pressure will be put on the EA to improve the freshwater environment as one things for sure it won't take long for the apex predator to start to disappear from a failing river system. It's disappearance will also be a lot more visible to the general public than that of our fish. If our river environment is not put right do you think people like the RSPB will not notice Bitterns , water rail ect disappearing, bringing people like this into the fight will have a lot more impact than a group of anglers asking to kill animals so they can catch fish.
All the best
Richard
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[Simon K]

The fact still remains that the introduction of the otter only proved to highlight an underlying problem. Even if otters were culled this wouldn't help with fish recruitment, it wouldn't help with over abstraction , with pollution. With the otter in place as the publics favourite more pressure will be put on the EA to improve the freshwater environment as one things for sure it won't take long for the apex predator to start to disappear from a failing river system. It's disappearance will also be a lot more visible to the general public than that of our fish. If our river environment is not put right do you think people like the RSPB will not notice Bitterns , water rail ect disappearing, bringing people like this into the fight will have a lot more impact than a group of anglers asking to kill animals so they can catch fish.
All the best
Richard
- Home

Spot on, Richard.

 

[Eric Edwards]

...and that's where anglers should be focusing their attention. Otters are NOT a threat to angling and indeed they may yet prove to be a great boon to angling. Otters thrive on good water quality and high fish stocks - errm, isn't that what we want too?

It isn't the otter that's the problem, it's the carp! Of course otters are going to target carp, they aren't wild creatures, they're man-made creations! There's a very good reason why wild carp are long, lean, heavily scaled and much smaller than their "king" cousins. They developed that way to avoid being eaten by things like otters. Now man has reversed that trend and other men are in the process of putting us back to square one.

We should ally ourselves with the otter lovers not the carp lovers, they'll bring us back our fisheries!

 

[904_cannon]

It isn't the otter that's the problem, it's the carp! Of course otters are going to target carp, they aren't wild creatures, they're man-made creations! There's a very good reason why wild carp are long, lean, heavily scaled and much smaller than their "king" cousins. They developed that way to avoid being eaten by things like otters. Now man has reversed that trend and other men are in the process of putting us back to square one.

We should ally ourselves with the otter lovers not the carp lovers, they'll bring us back our fisheries!

I'm not amongst the ones calling for a 'cull' or whatever, but there is hardly a de scaled fish HERE and there is also the odd predator - being preyed upon.

 

[little oik]

Get over it .They are here to stay .Why haven't the humble mink been mentioned (poor things they are feeling left out of this debate ).Is it because they are not big enough to be seen to damaged "our Prized fish".
All these dead half eaten fish that are left on the banks can only be the work of a big predator surely :wh.
Whatever next, will Pike be the next on the list. Oh forgot they were an indigenous species . So perhaps the Zander then .
With all the other problems that rivers are facing I would have thought this was a good PR exercise by the Water companies to give people Red herrings and divert the main issues that will bankrupt them and other water users like fracking and food production .You cannot expect a poor Farmer to pay for his water so he can then sell the food to the never ending population explosion now can you

 

[cg74]

“the upper Thames, Cherwell and Evenlode have been devastated and now my beloved Kennet is beginning to suffer badly.” said Ian


Now here's a question to everyone on this forum; how many barbel, or any other fish species, have YOU seen dead on the bank of the upper Thames, Cherwell, Evenlode and to broaden it further, the Windrush?

Well someone must have seen at least one?

 

[geoffmaynard]

I'm actually still trying to remember the last time I saw a LIVE barbel on the banks of any of those rivers!

Happy New Year peeps.

 

[Paul Boote]

Yes, but then they're a shadow of what they were 30 years ago after the EU-hating, yet hugely EU-subsidized farmers got at them. Plus us, of course, wanting to wash our three cars at least weekly and have a shower everyy five minutes...

 

[MarkTheSpark]

Yes, but then they're a shadow of what they were 30 years ago after the EU-hating, yet hugely EU-subsidized farmers got at them. Plus us, of course, wanting to wash our three cars at least weekly and have a shower everyy five minutes...

And you have hit the nail on the head, Paul. We are running out of water. We have the same supply system we have had for 30 years - no new reservoirs, for example - but we have more people using more water, and using it badly.

The water companies purify the stuff to drinking quality so that households can then use 1/3 of it to flush turds, yet rainwater harvesting is not even a building regulation for industrial premises, let alone dwellings.

Only 1/3 of UK households have water metering, and I am among them. So forgive me if I find it offensive when my brother-in-law keeps a hose on ALL DAY on his veg, and I end up paying for his misuse of drinking water. In point of fact, drinking water is periodically flushed with chlorine, which makes it deadly to essential soil bacteria. In other words, watering with drinking water is actually harmful to your plants.

Because the water companies pump so much from the aquifer, water tables all over the UK are falling and the rivers - which depend on the height of the water table - fall with them. Perhaps some anglers aren't aware of this, but 50% of a river's flow can be beneath the surface, often through ancient gravel deposits. But no good for fish or fishing.

This really is a crisis; an unmanaged disaster about which we should be getting very shirty....

---------- Post added at 13:27 ---------- Previous post was at 13:26 ----------

...and that's where anglers should be focusing their attention. Otters are NOT a threat to angling and indeed they may yet prove to be a great boon to angling. Otters thrive on good water quality and high fish stocks - errm, isn't that what we want too?

It isn't the otter that's the problem, it's the carp! Of course otters are going to target carp, they aren't wild creatures, they're man-made creations! There's a very good reason why wild carp are long, lean, heavily scaled and much smaller than their "king" cousins. They developed that way to avoid being eaten by things like otters. Now man has reversed that trend and other men are in the process of putting us back to square one.

We should ally ourselves with the otter lovers not the carp lovers, they'll bring us back our fisheries!

Wise words, Eric.

 

[Berty]

Erm.....Erics words aint that wise! yes, the water tables are falling, i know of many ponds and lakes i fished as a kid and teenager that are gone, yes our rivers are in a state for concern, yes it would be nice to talk to the Otter lovers.......but surely getting something done BEFORE encouraging otters is the wise thing from both points of view??????

The Otter lovers WONT be interested in fish stocks, they will walk away from us....just as their otters will move to the next larder.

Sort it first THEN talk about it further is what i see as wise!

 

[Fred Bonney]

Too late to sort Paul, the otter is here to stay. We must ensure our waters are good enough to support all flora and fawna, the rest will come naturally.

 

[Berty]

Too late to sort Paul, the otter is here to stay. We must ensure our waters are good enough to support all flora and fawna, the rest will come naturally.

Yes we should Fred....and for the time being that may include some form of control, in whatever form it takes, including otters.

 

[john conway (CSG - ACA)]

I concur with most of the comments above, this is doomed to fail and will put angling in a very bad light with the public.
What is of considerable concern is the lack of water in certain areas, partly due to climatic changes, regardless of whose fault it is, abstraction because its easier for privately owned water companies to acquire abstraction licenses than build reservoirs’. Too much water in other areas has also got its problems, flooding, and loss of year classes etc. again who’s going to pay for creating new flood plains? It seems we have allowed inappropriate building on existing ones, I wonder who allowed that?

 

[904_cannon]

I agree about the inappropriate building/planning consent, and it will only get worse with the change in planning regulations/assumption to give rather than refuse.

An area in Bishop Auckland very close to the river has recently been 'developed' even though the Wear has suffered from 4, one in three hundred year floods in the last 10 years. At least the very high floods might keep the otter numbers down.

Just as worrying is the lack of urgency to put right the main reasons for the very high and frequent flooding, the upland grips. These were originally created to drain the upper moorlands, now no one wants to take on the responsibility, or so it would seem. But hey, the moorland shoots have never had it so good.

After hearing that many rivers also seem to be suffering from poor recruitment the Wear now seems to be bucking the trend. Those anglers 'in the know' are reporting lots of small chub and dace and there seems to be an abundance of chub between 1.5lb-3lb. (I've heard the cormorants now prefer the salmon and sea trout parr ) Sadly the chub failed to show on the one big match held this year, at least it will keep the money grabbing match anglers away

Good to see you back John, internet connection now working I take it

Best wishes to you and your lass for the New Year, and everyone else on FM

AND I had two reportable fish today, just in the nick of time