Martin Gay and the 48lb Common...Setting the Record Straight

nicepix

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Having read this thread I have tried to research the carp fishing in British Columbia and discovered that there doesn't seem to be much to shout about. Plenty of trout, salmon and sturgeon, but very little about carp and certainly no references to carp of the sizes being discussed being caught in the west of Canada. Ontario seems to be the best place for large Canadian carp. But it is a bit more than a bike ride from BC.

I'm sure that this debate will never be settled to everyone's satisfaction. Only those who saw the unadulterated photos will know the truth and others will take their stances for and against dependent on their views, friendships, prejudices and previous history.
 

geoffmaynard

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Very true Nicey. I think one has to travel right across the continent to find a water with huge carp. I'm damn sure that if Martin Gay ever went fishing in BC it wouldn't be for a ruddy carp! :)
 

Paul Boote

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Very shoddy, totally unnecessary, long after the event, Modern Carp Ape score-settling and character-assassinating stuff all this. Should never have been given a public airing. Who's in for it next, I wonder? Walker for being a lawnmower-company heir? Venables for being a bit art-farty and no centrepin fisher? So-and-so cos I envy and 'ate 'im?

We, a few of us at least, are burning our own house down.
 

Cliff Hatton

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Very shoddy, totally unnecessary, long after the event, Modern Carp Ape score-settling and character-assassinating stuff all this. Should never have been given a public airing. Who's in for it next, I wonder? Walker for being a lawnmower-company heir? Venables for being a bit art-farty and no centrepin fisher? So-and-so cos I envy and 'ate 'im?

We, a few of us at least, are burning our own house down.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Paul: always good to get your comments but this one doesn't really resonate with the subject matter though I would agree 100% that there were some shamefully 'shoddy' things going on back in '89-90...shamefully shoddy

Watch this space...
 

Paul Boote

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Too many warring personalities, too much public scab-picking etc in a certain sort of "Angling", for me and for many others, in the past couple of decades - reason why I'm not / we're not seen these days in the fishy public that is the b'stard child of such toxic stuff. Many have fallen into quiet contempt and despair, but not me, love Angling too much! Physician, heal thyself.
 

Titus

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Just for once I have to agree wholeheartedly with Paul Boote on this. It's unnecessary, undignified and proves nothing. It's a bit like old men fighting.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPmHNDwklP0]Old Men Fighting FAIL! - YouTube[/ame]
 

Cliff Hatton

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I really don't think this matter should be seen as 'old men fighting' or any kind of 'argument'; somewhere along the way, things went very wrong and a great moment in angling's history has been discredited along with the memory of an exceptional angler. Historians of all kinds haggle and wrangle over matters stretching back centuries so it's hardly going OTT to set the record straight - I've certainly no personal 'beef' with fellow anglers I've never met! I can only inform them and the angling world of what I know to be true and what is almost certainly so. Together we might resolve the problem.

I wrote to a buddy of Martin's this morning and asked if he - like me - thought the oft-seen 'blanked-out' shot of Martin with his '48' was the one we'd both seen back in ’89 in an untouched state. Remember, he and I were long-standing mates of Martin - not a couple of outsiders relying on hearsay! To my pleasure and relief he confirmed that it was. Yes, both he and I had seen the original photograph and we both can confirm that the background consisted of grass and a fence. To those of you out there still following this, I offer this advice: mentally incinerate any suggestion or statement you ever read or heard that there had been mountains in the background - it's simply untrue. I SAW that photo as did Martin's other buddy (and others!) and can solemnly swear that the blanked-out portion in that ubiquitous photograph conceals only grass and a fence. It was, of course, blanked-out subsequently for the purposes of press-circulation and the publicity that might well have led to the carps' whereabouts being identified (and everybody did that...and still does!) And here's another thought...if Martin had shown photo's of himself with mountains in the background to a relative outsider - or anyone else - why wouldn't he show them to me and at least 6 other close friends? Think about that!

I'd really appreciate Paul Selman coming back to confirm that only one member of the BCSG ever saw photographic evidence and that none of those excellent, esteemed anglers he listed ever did - not one of them; in which case, that "proof" he cited holds no water at all. Rather neatly then there is, in fact, nothing on which I could possibly predicate an accusation that Paul and his colleagues were “liars”– is there! There was nothing for them to comment on or lie about because with one exception nobody in his group saw the pictures, so nobody was in a position to deem Martin Gay guilty of lying.

I pursue this in a 'journalistic' sort of way and seek only to set the discredited record straight for the interest and benefit of all, and out of respect for an extraordinarily talented and thoughtful angler who simply wouldn't lie about a fishing matter: fishing meant too much to him.

If the well-respected chap to whom I truthfully refer is able and willing to expand on his knowledge, I’ll relate his recollection here in due course. It’s important to do so, I think, because by their very nature historians wish to deal with facts and in the absence of firm evidence historians speculate or theorize – they don’t decree what is or isn’t the truth. Work with me, Paul, to get the facts.
 

Bluenose

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Cliff I vaguely remember the event, or more to the point, reading the discussions thereafter in various mags, I am wondering if the carp was ever caught again?

Most carp of that size in Britain are well known and recognisable, especially back then, has anyone ever claimed re-capturing that fish do you know or sought to id the fish against others in the area?
 

Titus

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a great moment in angling's history has been discredited along with the memory of an exceptional angler. Historians of all kinds haggle and wrangle over matters stretching back centuries so it's hardly going OTT to set the record straight - .


Tbh it's not exactly Watergate or The Profumo affair is it.


I pursue this in a 'journalistic' sort of way and seek only to set the discredited record straight for the interest and benefit of all,

What may or may not have happened 30 years ago on the banks of a lake here or 7000 miles away has no relevance today.

If your friend wanted to clear his name he had ample opportunity to do what any reasonable person would have done and publish the original photographs in their untouched condition while he was alive; that of course is assuming they exist. Twenty years after the alleged capture this would hardly compromise the location would it?

By 'picking this scab' (P Boote #25) all you have really done is open this sordid affair up to a whole new generation of carpers to speculate over something best forgotten.
 
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cg74

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Tbh it's not exactly Watergate or The Profumo affair is it.




What may or may not have happened 30 years ago on the banks of a lake here or 7000 miles away has no relevance today.

If your friend wanted to clear his name he had ample opportunity to do what any reasonable person would have done and publish the original photographs in their untouched condition while he was alive; that of course is assuming they exist. Twenty years after the alleged capture this would hardly compromise the location would it?

By 'picking this scab' (P Boote #25) all you have really done is open this sordid affair up to a whole new generation of carpers to speculate over something best forgotten.

I'm in total agreement Ade. Normally old matters like this are only brought to the fore when something new has come to light.
Is there new evidence, I think not!
 
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geoffmaynard

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I'm total agreement. Normally old matters like this are only brought to the fore when something new has come to light.
Is there new evidence, I think not!

Read the title of the piece again. That's what it's about. A great angler - with no need to lie, and he wouldn't know how to - with a great capture, who was put down by people who couldn't accept that he was telling the truth. The thing is, he was convicted and sentenced on a lack of evidence. It goes both ways y'know.
 

Paul Boote

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Yes. There are certain fish species that men simply want too much, and when they've not caught them but another has, how they turn sour and nasty, permanently.
 

cg74

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Read the title of the piece again. That's what it's about. A great angler - with no need to lie, and he wouldn't know how to - with a great capture, who was put down by people who couldn't accept that he was telling the truth. The thing is, he was convicted and sentenced on a lack of evidence. It goes both ways y'know.

Geoff, just for you I've reread the opening passage: "A four year-old forum post prompts one of Martin Gay’s old friends to take a look back at what was, at the time, a very controversial capture"

Though I already knew what the article was about, and I can't see how this article has achieved its objective; 'setting the record straight' or am I missing something?
 

bennygesserit

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These threads must be very sad for the surviving relatives of the guy concerned, and I have no idea who is correct in all this , sadly its human nature to lie , to be convinced but mistaken , or just lie out of spite. i know my wife ran a working men's club for five years I have seen it all before , some people are just manipulative , vindictive and sociopathic and they will lie to your face and behind your back and feel completely shameless about it.

Maybe the fact that I have just been reading "that 400lb catch from the trent" has tainted me but its all a bit depressing isn't it stuff like this.
 
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Peter Jacobs

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Maybe the fact that I have just been reading "that 400lb catch from the trent" has tainted me but its all a bit depressing isn't it stuff like this.

You read all 51 pages of that?

From, when was it, 2006?

Please take a long look in the Oxford Dictionary at the word: "Masochist"

[insert huge smiley thang > > > HERE]
 

geoffmaynard

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adly its human nature to lie , to be convinced but mistaken , or just lie out of spite. i know my wife ran a working men's club for five years I have seen it all before , some people are just manipulative , vindictive and sociopathic and they will lie to your face and behind your back and feel completely shameless about it.

And there are honest decent truthful people who don't give a damn what others say about them. But if all you ever met were the people you describe above, how would you recognise one?
 

cg74

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And there are honest decent truthful people who don't give a damn what others say about them. But if all you ever met were the people you describe above, how would you recognise one?

Lets cut the bollox; I don't believe there is a single adult on this planet that has never lied at some point or other in their life.

Of course some do lie more than others, after all, we are all different.
 

richiekelly

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Its very noticeable that despite very polite requests for answers from Mr Selman by the OP that none have been forthcoming, the type of ugliness that often surrounds unknown big fish is a blight on angling no matter how long ago it started and continues to this day, if it isn't a known fish caught by a known angler then "it must be a lie", shame some anglers are driven by ego and not what this sport of ours should be about.
 

Cliff Hatton

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CG74....what the blazes are you talking about? I have told you and hundreds - possibly thousands - of readers the FINAL DEFINITIVE FACTS.....I.e. THE TRUTH behind Martin Gays enormous 48 (52)lb carp. Read again! I and another of Martin's very close friends (+3 members of a club committee) were shown the pics by Martin before they were shown to the ONE BCSG member who would have been pretty peed-off by Martin's secrecy - as was I.
Again, I can categorically state as FACT that the photos had GRASS and a FENCE in the background. Ok??? The scurrilous story about mountains was precisely that - a scurrilous story. And yes....nobody who 'counts' has come back to say that THEY saw the pics - because they didn't! But I DID and so did another pal and 3 club committee members. There's your answer.
Remember it!
 
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