Why use Keep Nets outside matches?

[tigger]

Great so you agree then it was hypocritical and you were wrong. Glad we sorted that out.

So this Rabbit I would imagine then is one of the many (many) other people you have also rubbed up the wrong way ?

No, not hypocrytical at all. Wels are a serious danger to the native creatures and need to be kept out of the natural waterways. If you don't understand the diference between that and my opinion of keeping fish in keepnets for long periods of time I reckon your deffo rabbit LOL.

 

[Philip]

No, not hypocrytical at all. Wels are a serious danger to the native creatures and need to be kept out of the natural waterways. If you don't understand the diference between that and my opinion of keeping fish in keepnets for long periods of time I reckon your deffo rabbit LOL.

Given your always (...always...) right and I cannot honestly recall even 1 occasion in many hundreds if not thousands of post that you have EVER accepted you could be wrong its pretty pointless debating with you isnt it.

So you go ahead and believe whatever you like.

& yes I'm Rabbit

LOL

 

[tigger]

Given your always (...always...) right and I cannot honestly recall even 1 occasion in many hundreds if not thousands of post that you have EVER accepted you could be wrong its pretty pointless debating with you isnt it.

So you go ahead and believe whatever you like.

& yes I'm Rabbit

LOL

Rabbit, all i've said is my opinion and my experiences. I know you don't go fishing but others may have had different exxperiences than me.
Because of my experiences I feel no need to use a keepnet.
You do as you choose, if you ever get round to going fishing that is ....rabbit.

 

[Philip]

And thats exactly the problem then. Your mixing up your opinion with fact.

I guess you simply lack the experience and have not fished enough to have been in a situation yet where you would see that your wrong. Do allot more fishing and come back in a few years with a more informed opinion.

All the best.
Rabbit x

 

[108831]

I don't use a keepnet these days,twice in three years in fact,mainly cos I can't be arsed to carry it or dry it(modern materials)and find I don't need one,but,think I would catch more chub when I'm trotting in the winter,the small rivers I fish for this don't react well to big chub going back.

On the catfish squabble,the deep club lake near to me has decent cats(over 60lb)and a good population of them,the lake also has decent carp,pike,perch,bream,tench,but it has lots of roach,with many good ones to 2-8ish,I talked to a bailiff yesterday afternoon,he only fished for cats,he says it's wrong for people to fish for the lesser species on light line(8lbs ffs)because odd cats are hooked and lost,leaving hooks in them,my hackles raised a little because of the idea of using 46lb braid,a 1/0 hook and getting cut off on zebra mussels ,this leaving that in a cat is acceptable,how naive,selfish and idiotic is that,the water is well balanced and the cats,pike and perch are just about keeping control of the small fish,what a loss to angling it would be...

 

[mikench]

Philip you are entertaining !! By the way Catfish do not have scales!

 

[Philip]

Philip you are entertaining !! By the way Catfish do not have scales!

Thanks..at the end of the day forums are there for entertainment.

Your point being what about Catfish ? ...yes they dont have scales. I never said otherwise. Please make sense rather than just post something that simply shows you didnt read what I wrote properly.

 

[Philip]

but,think I would catch more chub when I'm trotting in the winter,the small rivers I fish for this don't react well to big chub going back.

And thats basically exactly the situation where I use a net. Yes its a pain but I convinced in certain circumstances and often its Chub swims that the net can make a difference between just 1 fish or several.

 

[mikench]

read what I wrote properly.

What I have written Philip! Your English teacher will be disappointed! I didn't say you said that catfish had scales, I merely pointed out that they didn't'

Anyway I will not bandy words with a 13 year old!

 

[tigger]

And thats basically exactly the situation where I use a net. Yes its a pain but I convinced in certain circumstances and often its Chub swims that the net can make a difference between just 1 fish or several.

Neil, how would you know that since you don't go fishing?

 

[Philip]

I didn't say you said that catfish had scales, I merely pointed out that they didn't' Anyway I will not bandy words with a 13 year old!

Ah right so this ...

Philip you are entertaining !! By the way Catfish do not have scales!

Was just a random comment Like btw Philip the moon is not made of cheese.

....At your age Mike you really should have grasped the concept of clear written communication by now.

 

[daniel121]

Nottskev made a absolutely brilliant post on this subject.

The answer to the OP's question because it gives me pleasure to build a weight of sliver fish. Also in natural venue's I'm a firm believer that fish like roach enter the shoal and put the other feeding fish off. I believe fish communicate via body language.

 

[mikench]

Philip my comment was obiter dictum and part of your learning curve! Is your recent belligérance hormonal?

 

[bracket]

Well this thread is warming up nicely. Keepnets. Coming from a match fishing background I have always used a keepnet, in fact using one was ingrained into me, match fishing or pleasure fishing. When arriving at the peg it would be the second thing that went up after the landing net. In what is now coming up to 65 years fishing I have caught and restrained tens of thousands of fish in keepnets and have never had an instance of distress. I have witnessed examples of distress where nets have not properly situated and tethered, but that is the fault of angler, not the net. Modern nets are huge and made of fish sympathetic materials and highly suited to keeping fish safely for 4 or 5 hours. I base this observation on the fact that fish prefer to be in a shoal and a concentrated "catching area" is most likely smaller than the dimensions of a net but contains many more times the number of fish a net could accomadate. It is the case that when restocking waters, fish are transported for long periods of time in albeit large tanks but with a greater density of fish than are ever kept in a keepnet. So it is my considered opinion that a fish friendly keepnet, correctly sited and secured, is of minimum detriment to fish welfare. The bonus is it allows me to know that I have caught 16 bream and not the same bream 16 times. Pete

 

[mikench]

I fully understand why keep nets are used and remain popular ! Long may they remain so! I cannot use them on those waters where I am likely to make the use of one, potentially worthwhile!

 

[eric]

Thank you all for your replies on this thread. was interesting to hear the various different angles on it...

Sent from my TA-1020 using Tapatalk

 

[Keith M]

Also in natural venue's I'm a firm believer that fish like roach enter the shoal and put the other feeding fish off. I believe fish communicate via body language.

I don’t like using keepnets myself and the only times that I ever use a keepnet is if I am fishing in a match (which isn’t very often these days).

Most anglers will just not believe in fish being able to communicate danger to the rest of a shoal; However there is a chemical alarm that fish do emit called ‘Schreckstoff’ which can be emitted when fish become alarmed which is often washed downstream before a fish can even rejoin a shoal (see Quote below from Wikipedia); however it is still present so shouldn’t be ignored as there are times when this could make a real difference to an anglers catch when a fish does rejoin their shoal immediately after release.

Quote from Wikipedia ref: The transmission of the fright chemical ‘schreckstoff’ which is transmitted by about 64% of all freshwater fish and transmits fright to other fish in the fishes vicinity:

Chemical alarm systems have been identified in a number of different taxa, including gastropods,[SUP][2][/SUP]echinoderms,[SUP][3][/SUP]amphibians[SUP][4][/SUP]and fishes. One of the most well-studied chemical alarm signals is schreckstoff, the use of which is widespread in the superorder Ostariophysi (e.g., minnows, characins, catfishes, etc.). About 64% of all freshwater fish species and 27% of all fish species worldwide are found in the ostariophysan superorder, which highlights the widespread use and importance of this chemical alarm system in fishes.[SUP][5][/SUP]

Having said that there’s a water not far from Reading where one of the Embassy challenge matches used to be fished, and where in a Barnet AC match I’ve caught around 40lb plus of smallish Tench and Rudd from right under my keepnet which had fish in it, and where if you were to cast further out your catch rate would be reduced dramatically; so either Tench and Rudd don’t transmit the fright chemical there or they were not that fussed about being caught on that particular water.

Keith

 

[nottskev]

I don’t like using keepnets myself and the only times that I ever use a keepnet is if I am fishing in a match (which isn’t very often these days).

Most anglers will just not believe in fish being able to communicate danger to the rest of a shoal; However there is a chemical alarm that fish do emit called ‘Schreckstoff’ which can be emitted when fish become alarmed which is often washed downstream before a fish can even rejoin a shoal (see Quote below from Wikipedia); however it is still present so shouldn’t be ignored as there are times when this could make a real difference to an anglers catch when a fish does rejoin their shoal immediately after release.

Quote from Wikipedia ref: The transition of the fright chemical ‘schreckstoff’ which is transmitted by about 64% of all freshwater fish and transmits fright to other fish in the fishes vicinity:



Having said that there’s a water not far from Reading where one of the Embassy challenge matches used to be fished, and where in a Barnet AC match I’ve caught around 40lb plus of smallish Tench and Rudd from right under my keepnet, and where if you were to cast further out your catch rate would be reduced dramatically; so either Tench and Rudd don’t transmit the fright chemical there or they were not that fussed about being caught on that particular water.

Keith

What does or doesn't frighten fish can be surprising. Several times last summer, I sat with my feet in the water in the shallow margin of a gravel pit. Tench and bream started to nose around, feeding between my feet and the keepnet. Feeding them didn't scare them, nor did standing up to feed the swim. But whenever I dropped the baited hook amongst them - and it was a small hook on lightish line - they all bolted every time before drifting back in a couple of minutes later. Not only did they never pick that bait up; they wouldn't tolerate the rig being near them. Made me wonder how fish are reacting when we can't see them.

 

[Philip]

After being returned following capture a fish is either going to swim away somewhere else or go back where it was caught from.

Should it return to a shoal I very much doubt there will be total indifference from every other fish around it. If fish were totally Indifferent to each other then they would not shoal up together, mate or do anything else as a group. They therefore MUST interact on some level with each other.

Just recently I caught a few Chub, as I was playing them in, in very clear water, they were accompanied by others swimming with them as I played them. I am sure others must have experienced this type of behavior as well. The free fish twisting and turning with the hooked one as I brought it in. It clearly was aware of the other fish and although I don’t know if it could sense something was wrong it certainly knew something was happening as it was mimicking the other fishes attempts to escape.

The upshot of this is that if fish are aware of each other then returning one to a shoal must have some sort of impact. We cannot prove if that impact is positive or negative but the only way to be certain its not negative is to stop it returning for example with the use of a net. Imo anyway.

 

[daniel121]

Thanks for that Keith, I didn't know about that chemical learn something new every day :thumbs:.

I believe (for right or wrong) that fish are simple creatures that we as fisherman credit with more intelligence than they actually have. However that does not mean they are stupid, incapable of communication, suicidal regarding getting caught etc. What it does mean is they are not capable of complex thought processes that human beings partake in.

I do think that fish are simalar to humans in other ways though, there are certain attributes that seem to happen depending on where you live, even 40 miles apart and we speak totally different for example. it's no different with fish, roach in one river can act totally differently to in another.