No experts in Angling? Pull the other one, Ron!

[The Monk]

If there is no such thing as an expert angler then there isn't any such thing as an expert in anything (including throwing bits of fluff).

You are trying to deny the definition of what an expert is. The OED definition of an expert is as Mark stated so if you think there is no such thing as expert you had best inform the OED they don't know what they are talking about! The definition of expert applies to everything including angling which isn't a special case though you might think so Ron.

I think you may be taking the term espert too liberally Graham, the courts use experts witnesses by definition of profession and qualifications, sadly many have been proved not to be

---------- Post added at 07:09 ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 ----------

Okay. I'm an expert breather then. So are you and him and him, we are all experts if you widen the focus enough. Alan S. is an expert in his chosen discipline but how far can he chuck a fly? Read a salmon river? Spot a bonefish on the flats, run a straight trolling lure? Handle a beachcaster?

Angling is a very wide subject. There is no such thing as an expert across the board.

yes you probably are an expert breather, we can be experts in everything which is scientifically measurable

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

Expert = Ex Spurt = A hasbeen drip under pressure.

 

[Fred Bonney]

Experts are only experts, when they tell everybody they are! :wh

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

If some has developed a certain level of expertise in a subject or skill then surely they can be classed as an expert.

 

[Dave Slater]

An interesting one this. I can agree and disagree with both Mark and Ron, it just depends on your personal view of what makes an "expert".
I think I tend to go along with Ron more on this one as I would expect an "expert" to know virtually everything on a subject. Regarding fishing I honestly do not think anybody does, even the great anglers.
I can remember my mate Bill Neal, just about the best chub angler I know, talking about some of these "experts" a while ago. We came to the conclusion that we had just about scratched the surface regarding chub fishing. I think Mark has done the same regarding roach fishing, which is a compliment as I regard him very highly as a roach angler.
The very best all round anglers have this ability, and more, with a wide variety of species but, for me, to be an "expert" would mean they could learn no more. There have been, and still are, great all rounders but I do not think there will ever be such a thing as an expert. To become an expert on even one species would take several lifetimes.

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

expert n. 1. person with extensive skill or knowledge in a particular field. adj. 2. skillful or knowledgeable. expertise n. special skill or knowledge.

It seems some of you can't seem to understand/accept the meaning of the English language.

Just because someone demostrates some expertise (and is therefore an expert) in a particular skill, it doesn't mean that they have nothing left to learn.

An expert has usually accomplished significantly more than the average person.

Stop trying to re-invent the English language!

Maybe some people have a problem with it's use becuase of it's cliched over use by the media (who also use the word scientist as a title for anyone vaguely technical).

---------- Post added at 11:29 ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 ----------

BTW, in case you haven't picked it up, I'm with Mark on this one.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Corky, judging by some of the posts I'm not so sure they even understand the dictionary definition of expert let alone the application of the word. Why else would they insist that to be an expert angler you need to know everything about every aspect of every branch of angling, which presumable means even the sort you can't do in this country.

Thers an old very apt saying, "there are none so blind as those who will not see".

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

To clear this up, earlier today I contacted The Institute For Scientific Research Into Angling Expertise - a subdivision of The Angling Thrust - and spoke to one of the experts there.

Chris Spodmandod, an expert in angling science, confirmed, "...of course an angler can be classed as an expert in his field. If he has a great deal of knowledge, experience and skill in a particular or indeed many aspects of angling then he should be considered an expert..."

His colleague, Dr. Rupert Bumwink added, "That's right Chris and may I just add, that Ron Clay is talking a right load of b*ll*cks. And those other blokes just don't understand what English words actually mean. I assume they are American."

 

[The Monk]

Matt try to understand this before one of us dies

An expert differs from the specialist in that a specialist has to be able to solve a problem and an expert has to know its solution. The opposite of an expert is generally known as a layperson, while someone who occupies a middle grade of understanding is generally known as a technician and often employed to assist experts. A person may well be an expert in one field and a layperson in many other fields. The concepts of experts and expertise are debated within the field of epistemology under the general heading of expert knowledge. In contrast, the opposite of a specialist would be a generalist, somebody with expertise in many fields.

The term is widely used informally, with people being described as 'experts' in order to bolster the relative value of their opinion, when no objective criteria for their expertise is available. The term crank is likewise used to disparage opinions. Academic elitism arises when experts become convinced that only their opinion is useful, sometimes on matters beyond their personal expertise.

In contrast to an expert, a novice (known colloquially as a newbie or 'greenhorn') is any person that is new to any science or field of study or activity or social cause and who is undergoing training in order to meet normal requirements of being regarded a mature and equal participant.

“Expert” is also being mistakenly interchanged with the term “authority” in new media. An expert can be an authority if through relationships to people and technology, that expert is allowed to control access to his expertise. However, a person who merely welds authority is not by right an expert. In new media, users are being mislead by the term “authority”. Many sites and search engines such as Google and Technorati use the term "authority" to denote the link value and traffic to a particular topic. However, this “authority” only measures populist information.

this bit in particularAn expert differs from the specialist in that a specialist has to be able to solve a problem and an expert has to know its solution. The opposite of an expert is generally known as a layperson, while someone who occupies a middle grade of understanding is generally known as a technician and often employed to assist experts. A person may well be an expert in one field and a layperson in many other fields. The concepts of experts and expertise are debated within the field of epistemology under the general heading of expert knowledge. In contrast, the opposite of a specialist would be a generalist, somebody with expertise in many fields.

The term is widely used informally, with people being described as 'experts' in order to bolster the relative value of their opinion, when no objective criteria for their expertise is available. The term crank is likewise used to disparage opinions. Academic elitism arises when experts become convinced that only their opinion is useful, sometimes on matters beyond their personal expertise.

In contrast to an expert, a novice (known colloquially as a newbie or 'greenhorn') is any person that is new to any science or field of study or activity or social cause and who is undergoing training in order to meet normal requirements of being regarded a mature and equal participant.

“Expert” is also being mistakenly interchanged with the term “authority” in new media. An expert can be an authority if through relationships to people and technology, that expert is allowed to control access to his expertise. However, a person who merely welds authority is not by right an expert. In new media, users are being mislead by the term “authority”. Many sites and search engines such as Google and Technorati use the term "authority" to denote the link value and traffic to a particular topic. However, this “authority” only measures populist information.

a specialist has to be able to solve a problem and an expert has to know its solution.

I rest my case

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

Why use 10 words when 4 will do?

As I am an expert in the meaning of the word expert, I prefer my much simpler explanation.

 

[noknot]

Monk,

What a load of old tosh, and I'm an expert in old tosh!:w

 

[Graham Whatmore]

I am hereby authorising a specialist to be an expert and provide the solution thus becoming an expert expert - hows that then Mr Monk?

 

[dryfly66]

One thing I can say for certain.

Goddard is an expert freshwater entymologist.

Urban Dictionary: entymology

Etymology is the study of the origins of words. Some words have been derived from other languages, possibly in a changed form (the source words are called etymons). Through old texts and comparisons with other languages, etymologists try to reconstruct the history of words — when they entered a language, from what source, and how their form and meaning changed.


Etymology is an account of the history of a particular word or element of a word.

Through old texts and comparisons with other languages, etymologists try to reconstruct the history of words — when they entered a language, from what source, and how their form and meaning changed.

An Etymologist is different then a philologist, one who studies linguistics and etymology.

Beware, those who are nescient often misuse and mispronounce 'entymology' which is actually the study of insects!

Fancy that... :wh :wh

Goddard's authoratative books on identifying insects and trout flies would also have made him an expert entomologist.

 

[peter crabtree]

imagnier , well spotted there is no such word as entymology..
entomology is the study of insects..

 

[The Monk]

the trouble with your version is Matt it appears to miss out the vital bits mate haha, Ok lets just look at the bits I`ve picked up on

#a specialist has to be able to solve a problem and an expert has to know its solution#

#is deciding rightly consistantly, consistently - In a consistent manner; constantly; always#

now without bringing anything else into the debate simply expain these parts of the definition and if you can put forward a simple understanding to my interpretation then I`ll agree with you?

---------- Post added at 18:29 ---------- Previous post was at 18:22 ----------

Monk,

What a load of old tosh, and I'm an expert in old tosh!:w

Yes excellent thought process and I`ve no doubt your right Mr Nonot, but it is the definition, hey who are we to argue, I`m certainly no expert in these things??

---------- Post added at 18:32 ---------- Previous post was at 18:29 ----------

I am hereby authorising a specialist to be an expert and provide the solution thus becoming an expert expert - hows that then Mr Monk?

yes apparently an expert is one who can provide a solution, so I`d like to hear from any angling experts out there who can provide me with a solution to stop me blanking

---------- Post added at 18:34 ---------- Previous post was at 18:32 ----------

If some has developed a certain level of expertise in a subject or skill then surely they can be classed as an expert.

yes I`m sure he can Matt, but it doesnt neccessarily make him one of course

---------- Post added at 18:47 ---------- Previous post was at 18:34 ----------

To clear this up, earlier today I contacted The Institute For Scientific Research Into Angling Expertise - a subdivision of The Angling Thrust - and spoke to one of the experts there.

Chris Spodmandod, an expert in angling science, confirmed, "...of course an angler can be classed as an expert in his field. If he has a great deal of knowledge, experience and skill in a particular or indeed many aspects of angling then he should be considered an expert..."

His colleague, Dr. Rupert Bumwink added, "That's right Chris and may I just add, that Ron Clay is talking a right load of b*ll*cks. And those other blokes just don't understand what English words actually mean. I assume they are American."

Little do you realise Matt that both Ron and myself have actually fished with both Chris and Rupert over the years, indeed I actually dated Ruperts wife for a number of weeks while he was away fishing and trying to be an expert, but I tell you this in confidence mate, so don`t breath a word, however I`ve recently come away from the phone after speaking in some depth to both Mr Spodmandod and Mr Bumwink and both claim that you have grossly misquoted them because you fail to have a basic understanding of the English language.

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Expert, Expert, Expert. Well I am not sure there is such a thing in any field of life. Even the so called experts learn new things, so how can they be experts??.

Very Accomplished fits the bill much better.

 

[Ray Roberts]

Expert, Expert, Expert. Well I am not sure there is such a thing in any field of life. Even the so called experts learn new things, so how can they be experts??.

Very Accomplished fits the bill much better.

I think you have expert mixed up with know-all.

To be an expert means to me to have gained a high level of skill/expertise in a particular field. So a guy could be an expert on say chub fishing if he has learnt more, and is more skillful than the average chub angler, he may know faff all about pike fishing so his area of expertise would lie with chub. The problem lies in what criteria is used to determine the point when one reaches this level. This is usually taken care of professionally by having structured professional qualifications which usually denote a level of competence. With angling, I suppose it's putting fish on the bank consistently that counts.

 

[Fred Bonney]

This expert thing is in the eye of the beholder I think, the more somebody tells me they are an expert the more I doubt it.

I knew many a man with "structured professional qualifications" who didn't have a clue when it came down to using their so called competence in real life.

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

I think you have expert mixed up with know-all.

To be an expert means to me to have gained a high level of skill/expertise in a particular field. So a guy could be an expert on say chub fishing if he has learnt more, and is more skillful than the average chub angler, he may know faff all about pike fishing so his area of expertise would lie with chub. The problem lies in what criteria is used to determine the point when one reaches this level. This is usually taken care of professionally by having structured professional qualifications which usually denote a level of competence. With angling, I suppose it's putting fish on the bank consistently that counts.

Know it all or expert, not much difference if you listern to some of the so called experts. Red Wine, one day you can drink a glass a day, it's good for you, so says one expert. Then a glass of Red Wine a day is bad for you, says another expert. So who is the expert? only one way to find out, FIGHT.

But seriously, the word expert is used to easy, if there is such a thing that is.

 

[The Monk]

well to be honest the only experts I`ve ever met in angling are the fish