£20 Blue pop-up tent or £300 green bivvy?

[Peter Jacobs]

I'd be concerned about the condensation problems in a small tent as opposed to a full bivvy with outer skin attached.

My Trakker has never had condensation problems, it is cool in the Summer and warm in the Winter too.

Another main difference would be stability. Properly sited and pegged down a bivvy will stay in place even in the roughest storms.

Over the years I've seen many a 'tent' blown away in a strong wind as well as occupants packing up in the morning because of being 'flooded' out by a heavy rainfall in the night.

My preferrance is for the Trakker MkII complete with outer skin; not cheap but then quality rarely is . . . . . .

 

[sam vimes]

I have nothing more than an idea which may answer your question, some people like the idea of camping and they get a tent and become campers, straightforward enough. Some anglers fish overnight others who perhaps fish for the same species but have not really considered fishing overnight get caught up in the idea of all the equipment but they are far more interested in the idea of great catches and specimen sized fish rather than the actual idea of camping and spending a night alone in the countryside, then when it starts getting dark and they hear all the night noises beginning they suddenly do not feel quite so confident about being alone in the countryside at night. So they make an excuse to themselves of just remembering something and pack up and head home. I have no doubt that if they had been campers or at least been camping they would feel easier about it.

Various threads have been raised on nigh-time nerves and fears on many forums which gives more than a little support to my idea of their reasons for not staying and perhaps they try a few times and still feel uncomfortable. I neither blame them nor decry them for until you have spent a few nights out alone anyone can get a little nervous is natural. I would not be surprised to discover that more anglers own bivvies and have never used them than some people would first think.

You see it is not the strength or the solidity of the bivvy to the tent but a different mindset in the two types of people who choose each of these two options. One wants to spend a night out under the stars away from civilisation the other just wants to catch great fish.

Fine, I can see the logic in that but it doesn't really tie in with your original statement.

Most people although equipped with bivvys do go home at dusk and the reason I am convinced is that they feel nervous and exposed in a bivvy, yet less so in a tent.

I'm afraid that I still can't agree with the notion that most people equipped with bivvies go home at dusk or that anyone (with no other qualifying statement) would feel more vulnerable in a bivvy than a tent. Most self respecting carpers wouldn't even take a bivvy unless they intend to stay for at least one night. In periods of decent weather most will make do with a brolly or shelter so as to be more mobile. If what you say is remotely true, then all I can conclude is that you share you waters with a lot of plonkers that aren't representative of genuine carpers. Eejits that have more money than sense that think a bivvy and bed chair is a must to fish for carp, even just for day sessions. I know they exist but, fortunately, I've successfully avoided such fools for years.

I can honestly say that I've rarely seen a genuine carper arrive at a water, set up a bivvy and leave at dusk on the same day. If I have seen it, it's because something fairly dire has forced their hand, forgetting something that they can't do without or a family/work emergency.

I suspect that the waters you are fishing and the prevailing negative attitude towards carpers is clouding your, and others, opinions.

 

[silvers]

I have never looked at bivvies in detail, but the £20 blue pop up will likely be single skin (so likely to suffer from condensation) and not very storm proof (rain or wind).

I do a fair bit of camping & backpacking, and there are plenty of people who will happily sleep out in pretty extreme weather under just a pegged out "tarp".
I believe Alpkit do a very good version of this idea if it interests you as an overnight or short stay shelter (much lighter than a brolly - even with poles rather than using trees to stake out.).

Most decent lightweight tents are designed for sleeping on a mat, not a bed chair or camp bed (ie. they are not very high, 95-120 cm). They are also not designed for rapid exit.

 

[cg74]

I fish about five times a week all over the place so perhaps I have just seen a few more than you over the years, Although my multiple sclerosis prevents my from moving far at a time or roving the bankside. I do manage to get taken to a lot of different venues and have been taken off to a good few lakes where I have seen it happen, as to how many times I cant say I have ever made a note of it.

You have no need to explain nor excuse your actions to me but just suppose some other angler saw the two occasions you mentioned that angler may only have seen a few bivvy up overnight so he or she may like me have thought some of them bring their bivvies and yet still go home. Should it be the case that our imaginary angler does not normally stay until dark he or she might assume that lots of anglers don't stay overnight even when they have all the gear, it would be a logical assumption. Then there are all the other times when someone intends to stay overnight but the fish are not biting so he or she decides to go home, next we have the I'll take my bivvy just in case I decide to stay overnight angler. The reasons and the numbers increase.

Watatoad, my two accounts though true were placed in jest, I feel no need to explain my actions, or to be excused, just trying to lighten the ambiance within this thread.

Regards anglers leaving prematurely, in my experience (both personal and others recounting their fishing scenarios), many anglers especially in summer turn up after work/after their evening meal, fish the evening-night then leave in the morning and go to work. Obviously the time they vacate the water would then depend on the time they start at work - A builder might start work at 8.30am and go straight from the lake (so leave only minutes before he's due to start), whereas an office worker might start at 8.00am, he would want a shower etc, so leaves the water at 6.00am or earlier.

This in my opinion gives the angler the two optimum periods of feeding activity (certainly for carp); the first and last hours of darkness.
So getting the best in many ways; fits their lifestyles, fishing at optimum times of the day and at times of the week when lakes are at there quietest.
A win, win, win situation all round, I guess it might look like they've done a midnight flit but I'd say in the vast majority of cases, it's doubtful.

---------- Post added at 14:53 ---------- Previous post was at 14:39 ----------

I have never looked at bivvies in detail, but the £20 blue pop up will likely be single skin (so likely to suffer from condensation) and not very storm proof (rain or wind).

I do a fair bit of camping & backpacking, and there are plenty of people who will happily sleep out in pretty extreme weather under just a pegged out "tarp".
I believe Alpkit do a very good version of this idea if it interests you as an overnight or short stay shelter (much lighter than a brolly - even with poles rather than using trees to stake out.).

Most decent lightweight tents are designed for sleeping on a mat, not a bed chair or camp bed (ie. they are not very high, 95-120 cm). They are also not designed for rapid exit.

Exactly right there.

Instead of the tent I'd say if someone doesn't want an out and out bivvy, go for something like this: DAIWA MISSION OVERNIGHTER - Specialist Fishing Tackle from Leslies of Luton Ltd.
Though they aren't the lightest of things, they're easy to set up even in the dark and if you do want to lighten them up a bit, just ditch the groundsheet.

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

I got the kids a single skin pop up a couple of years ago. First try out in the garden they were back in the house by 4am because they were soaked from the condensation dripping on them.

 

[terry m]

My preferrance is for the Trakker MkII complete with outer skin; not cheap but then quality rarely is . . . . . .

Completely agree on your choice Peter. I have a Mk II Trakker Armo also, as far as I am concerned it does not get much better.

Never had the need for a winter skin...............yet....

 

[Fishingdownthewindy]

One of the reasons some clubs ban tents is there is an ambiguity on size, a quick pitch 1 man to a 12 man tent, with a bivvy say max 3m x 2.8 for a continental 2 man.

A bit of common sense for most not bring a plastic mansion, but rules are there for the stupid.

As for a bivvy, how about a day shelter with an overwrap or a light weight bivvy that you can zip out the front? Korum, Chub, Wychwood etc do them at half the price of £300.

 

[sam vimes]

As for a bivvy, how about a day shelter with an overwrap or a light weight bivvy that you can zip out the front? Korum, Chub, Wychwood etc do them at half the price of £300.

Try a full third of the £300 quoted. Erics Angling Centre / Shimano Super Baitrunner Xtea / Fox Evolution Bedchair / Fox Warrior Es Elite, Leeds, UK

 

[terry m]

I've spent many a happy night on Scottish lochs under a brolly with heavy duty polythene sheeting over the top, sometimes awakening to find a covering of several inches of snow. 'Bedchair' was a lightweight sun lounger. Apart from the lounger which would collapse, several times a night, I never had a problem.

But hey, what self respecting carper would spend £20 when they can shell out £300

I remember the sun-lounger approach - sit on the end and the head flies up in the air!

The best argument for a proper bedchair and bivvy if ever there was one!

As a complete aside there seems to be a recurring theme, either tongue in cheek or serious, whereby people pour scorn on others who want to spend money - sometimes serious money - on their hobby. Shouldn't we just accept that we all have choices on how we spend our money.

 

[dixi1801]

Not sure if this helps anyone, but tesco are/were doing a 6 man tent for £15

My auntie bought one, said they're fantastic!

Hope this does help, they may have run out by now though!

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

 

[watatoad]

Fine, I can see the logic in that but it doesn't really tie in with your original statement.

I'm afraid that I still can't agree with the notion that most people equipped with bivvies go home at dusk or that anyone (with no other qualifying statement) would feel more vulnerable in a bivvy than a tent. Most self respecting carpers wouldn't even take a bivvy unless they intend to stay for at least one night. In periods of decent weather most will make do with a brolly or shelter so as to be more mobile. If what you say is remotely true, then all I can conclude is that you share you waters with a lot of plonkers that aren't representative of genuine carpers. Eejits that have more money than sense that think a bivvy and bed chair is a must to fish for carp, even just for day sessions. I know they exist but, fortunately, I've successfully avoided such fools for years.

I can honestly say that I've rarely seen a genuine carper arrive at a water, set up a bivvy and leave at dusk on the same day. If I have seen it, it's because something fairly dire has forced their hand, forgetting something that they can't do without or a family/work emergency.

I suspect that the waters you are fishing and the prevailing negative attitude towards carpers is clouding your, and others, opinions.

First let me apologise for being off topic.

sam vimes You are fully entitled to your opinion and your point of view and I accept that.

However you are not entitled to tell me what my opinion of Carpers is and I will never accept being told by anyone what my opinion is. Without me having stated my opinion or point of view.

If you are unable to accept that any other person has a right to an opinion or point of view that differs from your point of view or opinion then that is your problem. I know what I have seen and heard and I do not care whether you agree with it or not nor I do not care whether you believe it or not.

Yet you continue and state that you know that there are Carpers who do carry on exactly as I said and I quote:

Eejits that have more money than sense that think a bivvy and bed chair is a must to fish for carp, even just for day sessions. I know they exist but, fortunately, I've successfully avoided such fools for years.

I can honestly say that I've rarely seen a genuine carper arrive at a water, set up a bivvy and leave at dusk on the same day. If I have seen it, it's because something fairly dire has forced their hand, forgetting something that they can't do without or a family/work emergency.

I suspect that the waters you are fishing and the prevailing negative attitude towards carpers is clouding your, and others, opinions.

Then included in your statement and again I quote:

I can honestly say that I've rarely seen a genuine carper arrive at a water, set up a bivvy and leave at dusk on the same day. If I have seen it, it's because something fairly dire has forced their hand, forgetting something that they can't do without or a family/work emergency.

So you attack on me is for what? Things which you have admitted I am right on? What is your problem?

Have I possibly touched a raw nerve or some sensitive area of your overnight fishing?

It was not intended and if you read my posts you will find that I made a point of separating some Carp Chasers from the average.

You should have also realised that as I have bivvies and in other threads have mentioned night fishing and I have mentioned that I have chased Carp, plus I have I would have thought shown a pretty reasonable knowledge of Carp fishing that you should of guessed that I have in the past had long sessions of Carp chasing. I don't Chase Carp these days but that does not mean that I have never chased Carp nor does it mean that I never will chase Carp again, it means what I said I chase Roach, Tench, Barbel, Chub, Bream and Perch with the occasional session of Dace chasing. If you read my threads around the place you will find threads of me Carp fishing. I have simply got bored with Carp fishing. Because as much as anything I got tired and very bored with the holier than thou Carp anglers attitude.

I seldom make comment or offer advice on Carp chasing as technology moves on and new products seem to appear on the market almost every week, so a few months away from the Carp scene and you are out of date and old hat, Carp chases do not want or look for yesterdays advice they want all new shiny and bright advice. I also seldom fish commercials as I cant stand them.

 

[sam vimes]

Final response as it seems that you aren't actually comprehending what's written. You can have your opinion, even when it is total and utter rubbish. Nowhere have I said that you can't have whatever opinion you want. I've made no concession that you are right.
It's simple Watatoad, you make statements that are absolute tripe and can't back them up without adding reams of explanation that don't actually explain anything.

Most people although equipped with bivvys do go home at dusk and the reason I am convinced is that they feel nervous and exposed in a bivvy, yet less so in a tent.

"Most people" my hairy ricker. "They feel nervous and exposed in a bivvy, yet less so in a tent". Again, complete poppycock.
I'm afraid that it simply revolves around that ridiculous statement. The only high horse I'm on is an attempt to challenge the rubbish that you are spouting.
Some have tried a bit more politely, but it seems that you aren't prepared to listen. I'll be blunt, you talk ****. I doubt that you'll be heartbroken to hear it, but I'm not the only one that thinks this. That's ok though, we're all entitled to our opinions, right?

 

[bub81]

Sam, the way I interpreted that quote was that Most people feel exposed at dusk STOP even those who have a bivvy STOP People who have a good tent instead of a bivvy are often those who are used to camping and therefore often those who feel less exposed.

If I'm right I'm sure Watatoad would agree it could have been written clearer (as could many of our posts).

No need to start saying 'I'm not the only one who thinks this and that'. Its a fishing forum, not a cyberbullying forum.

I for one like reading Watatoads posts.

I think this thread has run it's course!

 

[sam vimes]

Sam, the way I interpreted that quote was that Most people feel exposed at dusk STOP even those who have a bivvy STOP People who have a good tent instead of a bivvy are often those who are used to camping and therefore often those who feel less exposed.

If I'm right I'm sure Watatoad would agree it could have been written clearer (as could many of our posts).

No need to start saying 'I'm not the only one who thinks this and that'. Its a fishing forum, not a cyberbullying forum.

I for one like reading Watatoads posts.

I think this thread has run it's course!

Oh please, don't go down the whole bullying route, it's cobblers. It's also the exact response that was being aimed for by mentioning age and infirmity. I can't bully anyone with mere words on a forum any more than you trying to pick me up is bullying. There's no threat whatsoever, real or implied, and I have no power to do anything whatsoever to anyone on here, even if I disagree with them vehemently. However, if calling someone out for talking nonsense is "bullying", so be it. The simple solution to avoid "bullying" is to not talk tosh. If you don't wish to be challenged then don't make comments that are either half baked or patently rubbish.
Too many on here like to make sweeping statements and squirm like little girls when they are challenged to back them up. Grow a pair. That doesn't mean I think they shouldn't post or that they post nothing worth reading.

However, with the last line, you are probably correct.

 

[904_cannon]

You would be surprised at how many I have seen over the years that do carry a heavy bivvy and end up going home. At the river as well as the lake and I do know the difference as I have two open day shelters which I love especially the £10.00 one from Dragon Carp its so light and at the price I will not cry when I break or damage it, sure its not going to last and its not too tough but it works well for me.

Have been into serious 'river fishing' for decades, (as have most of my peers, some of whom really do fish through the night) and I have yet to come across a single angler who is a 'day bivvy boy'

Sound like one of the fantasy tales of ANO angler I've come across.

 

[mark brailsford 2]

Most people although equipped with bivvys do go home at dusk and the reason I am convinced is that they feel nervous and exposed in a bivvy, yet less so in a tent.

Try wild camping on Ranock moor in a ''proper'' bivouac Then see how nervous you get...try it and live a little

By the way, to all of you that think carp bivvy's are Expensive I will let you in to a little secret. my 2 man Tera nova voyager cost me £280 12 years ago (by the way, best tents in the world and made in my home county of Derbyshire!) and folk **** themselves laughing when I tell them how much it cost, but how many argos tents will last that long and most importantly, stand up to a force 10 gale

 

[Titus]

In my experience carpers are a bit of an odd breed, I remember visiting the monument lake soon after it opened for a bit of a nose about, (it's only ten miles from my home) and was gobsmacked to find that on a lovely summer day every angler had gone to the trouble of erecting a little green house; despite the fact that it was at the time a day only water.

I've got a couple of bivvy tent things but in the summer the only time they get used ironically is if I go camping and don't want to put my big family tent up. For fishing I find a brolley with a zip in front panel is more than adequate for two or three nights and my old Brotel coupled with a lightweight fleece blanket is fine for overnighters. I do like the look of those pop up jobs though.

I had to smile about the fear of wild animals thing, especially when it turned out the most scary thing out there was a hedgehog. LMAO.

 

[watatoad]

Try wild camping on Ranock moor in a ''proper'' bivouac Then see how nervous you get...try it and live a little

By the way, to all of you that think carp bivvy's are Expensive I will let you in to a little secret. my 2 man Tera nova voyager cost me £280 12 years ago (by the way, best tents in the world and made in my home county of Derbyshire!) and folk **** themselves laughing when I tell them how much it cost, but how many argos tents will last that long and most importantly, stand up to a force 10 gale

Hehehe I have wild camped over most of the British Isles including Sutherland in winter and Dartmoor and the wilder parts of Europe, also camped over most of the world including the Rockies, America, Australia, Canada, the Middle East the Himalayas, the Alps and very extensively in Africa and South East Asia. Sometimes even with my wife we have camped out in hurricanes including one that took our several nearby villages and white outs. So I am not an amateur to the wilds and wilderness even today I occasionally give advice and teach wild camping and backwoods techniques, from lighting a fire to catching and butchering game. I still have a Blacks of Grennock Good Companions Major tent in very good condition bought in the 1960's and yes it is made of Egyptian Cotton and weights a ton, a couple of expedition tents and a couple of mountain tents and you know how much expedition tents cost. I personally rather like the DD hammocks range of tarps, I will still forage when I can for wild food and bait. If you read my profile on any site I am on you will see I am quite open about having traveled the world and hunted and fished everywhere and I have never been on a package holiday of any sort. Drop me in the middle of the woods anywhere and I will survive very well, no problem so long as I have my medication with me. I am buggered when that runs out ...hehehe... Bit I will survive better than anyone I know and for far longer than anyone I know and I don't need any special knives and gear in fact I can do it without even a knife and have proved so to several people. I might be an old disabled angler now who some might like to have the odd pop at but I was not always either disabled nor old. Yet I am still an easy going sort of Toad and understand where a lot of people are coming from as I have known so many people and seen many of them in tough situations and under at times difficult circumstances.

---------- Post added at 17:35 ---------- Previous post was at 16:59 ----------

Oops! there I am forgetful I even run a wild camping website as you will see it is not exactly new.

http://backwoodsmen.yolasite.com/

Its even got a picture of me on the contact us page with a toad mask on in winter in the woods wearing an ACU poncho.

and a fishing website:

http://watatoad.yolasite.com/

and a couple of others.

So although I am a fanatical angler I don't just do nothing else but angling, I live and I have lived my life to the maximum all my life, I also write these days, run a miniature tabletop wargames club, in fact I try to never stop.

 

[Kevan Farmer]

There is no comparison between a £20 cheapo pop up tent and a decent quality £300 angling bivvy. If you compare proper like for like then there are real differences.

A little history... Back in the days that Walker and his mates were pioneering carp fishing they used tents. There weren't any bivvys back then. Time passed and the various tackle manufacturers realised there was an opening for something a bit more than the standard brolly or tent from the local camping supply shop. Firstly came the overwraps for those brollies closely followed by special designs like the 'Brotel'. All had some sort of problem big or small. Brollies poles and ribs tend to get in the way, accepting that some people just get by and shrug off these niggles. Then came the proper bivvy. They were rather heavy (some still are) but they were generally good value and they were strong. They had bags of room inside, including plenty of headroom. Most importantly, together with that headroom they were easy to exit in the case of a run. This last is most important when comparing to tents.

Ultimately, I think somebody pondering buying a bivvy or a pop up tent ought to be really looking at what they are going to use it for. Is night fishing going to be a regular thing? If yes then I would certainly consider getting the best I could afford, comfort is important after all. However, if the night fishing is likely to be a once or twice a year thing then a pop up tent would be ok. But, that's no quite the end of the story. You could get one of the new day shelters. I'm currently considering buying a Korum days shelter. I shall not be doing any night fishing so why would I want one of these? Well, I find a brolly restrictive and not really very good. Add to that half the time the waters I fish I couldn't get the pole into the ground and even on a summer's day a breeze can suddenly whip up and take the brolly flying along the bankside, I witnessed this happening only last week. A day shelter, for me is perfect but, if I ever did want to do a night session it would be great for a one off. The Korum one does have the added bonus of having an extra overwrap if I wished to buy it for this reason.

 

[bub81]

Conclusion.

Yesterday I went to Big Hayes with my pal (Todber Manor, Sturminster Newton, Dorset) and took the blue Pop-up tent along. Everyone else had big Bivvies. Ha! I thought, good test opportunity, I'll show those carp tarts.

It was very windy so I opted for the umbrella (it was a day session, the tent was there in case of wind-driven rain or cold). Conditions didn't change so I didn't use the tent at all.

When we packed up the car my mate grabbed the thin, flat, folded tent, but I told him to leave it 'til last as it should probably go on top of everything. He put it on the roof of the car and told me it was there.

We forgot about it and drove off, only realising when we got home 45mins later. What *s we must have looked.

If it had been a large bivvy we would have seen it, so I guess the answer to this post, is:

£300 green bivvy.