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Warren 'Hatrick' (Wol) Gaunt
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And there's me thinking Ian's at Fox
Geoff Maynard
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<blockquote class=quoteheader>Gary Newman wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>I believe that some of the Fraser river sturgeon are unable to get back to sea - much like eels in some waters in this country - but technically they still aren't classed as freshwater fish. </blockquote>
Can't get back to sea? Don't understand that. The resident whites I am talking about are at Mission, just 14 miles inland at the start of the Fraser fishery, just before the tidal starts. The local guides certainly classify these as freshwater fish, they never run to sea.
Can't get back to sea? Don't understand that. The resident whites I am talking about are at Mission, just 14 miles inland at the start of the Fraser fishery, just before the tidal starts. The local guides certainly classify these as freshwater fish, they never run to sea.
Gary Newman
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Geoff,
I'd been told that there are areas on the Fraser where the fish couldn't travel back down to the sea even if they wanted to, hence you could argue that they are freshwater fish from an angling point of view, apologies if that is wrong, I haven't fished the river myself.
From a scientific point of view it isn't to do with where they live but how they are classified, and sturgeon aren't classified as a freshwater species, regardless of whether or not we think they should be.
I'm sure i remember a photo of a sturgeon that was estimated at over 1,000 lb (it was one with about six or seven people holding it if i remember rightly). But technically Ian's stingray is the biggest freshwater fish ever caught on rod and line.
I'd been told that there are areas on the Fraser where the fish couldn't travel back down to the sea even if they wanted to, hence you could argue that they are freshwater fish from an angling point of view, apologies if that is wrong, I haven't fished the river myself.
From a scientific point of view it isn't to do with where they live but how they are classified, and sturgeon aren't classified as a freshwater species, regardless of whether or not we think they should be.
I'm sure i remember a photo of a sturgeon that was estimated at over 1,000 lb (it was one with about six or seven people holding it if i remember rightly). But technically Ian's stingray is the biggest freshwater fish ever caught on rod and line.
F
Frothey
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<blockquote class=quoteheader>Warren 'Hatrick' (Wol) Gaunt wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>
And there's me thinking Ian's at Fox </blockquote>
I liked the
Presenter - "So, is that the rod you used" (pointing to what looks like a barbel rod)
Ian - "Errrr, one like it"
Great interview though, better than that Robson bloke!
And there's me thinking Ian's at Fox </blockquote>
I liked the
Presenter - "So, is that the rod you used" (pointing to what looks like a barbel rod)
Ian - "Errrr, one like it"
Great interview though, better than that Robson bloke!
Geoff Maynard
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was this the pic you were thinking of Gary?/members/images/54390/Gallery/hugesturgeon.jpg
Geoff Maynard
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<blockquote class=quoteheader>Gary Newman wrote (</blockquote><blockquote class=quote> From a scientific point of view it isn't to do with where they live but how they are classified, and sturgeon aren't classified as a freshwater species, regardless of whether or not we think they should be. </blockquote>
Well... debatable point. There are sturgeon and there are sturgeon. Some species of sturgeon exist in land-locked lakes and these definitiely ARE classed as freshwater species. There are others that migrate from rivers into freshwater lakes (the Gt Lakes for instance and are almost extinct) - and then there are the ones you are thinking of, which migrate in and out of the oceans. These you can argue about, but the others cannot be construed as anything other than freshwater species.
(I just knew this was gonna get pedantic!)/forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif
Well... debatable point. There are sturgeon and there are sturgeon. Some species of sturgeon exist in land-locked lakes and these definitiely ARE classed as freshwater species. There are others that migrate from rivers into freshwater lakes (the Gt Lakes for instance and are almost extinct) - and then there are the ones you are thinking of, which migrate in and out of the oceans. These you can argue about, but the others cannot be construed as anything other than freshwater species.
(I just knew this was gonna get pedantic!)/forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif
B
Bully
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Actually it did make me laugh.
Presenter "was that the rod actually used"
Ian Welsh "no, but one just like this from Fox"....pointing at a two piece 1.5lb test rod.
Earlier picture of him catching the fish.....some fat sea rod, multiplier, rod rings the size of WoLs arse........
Bit dishonest really.
Presenter "was that the rod actually used"
Ian Welsh "no, but one just like this from Fox"....pointing at a two piece 1.5lb test rod.
Earlier picture of him catching the fish.....some fat sea rod, multiplier, rod rings the size of WoLs arse........
Bit dishonest really.
BapAndFuro
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In Anglers Mail, it said the stingray was 260kg to 360kg, but they didn't weigh the fish because it was pregnant so they put her back as soon as possible.
Gary Newman
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Geoff,
That was the one i was thinking of. I actually agree with you in terms of them being freshwater, but from a scientific viewpoint they aren't - only what i was told when i made enquiries about whether or not Ian's is the biggest ever freshwater fish.
I know others who'll argue that anything you catch in freshwater counts as a freshwater species - i know Joe Taylor has a sturgeon and tarpon amongst his ten (i think) species over 100 lb from freshwater, because both were caught miles up river from the sea.
As for weighing fish of this size it would be virtually impossible without killing or harming the fish - the same goes for other species that grow to huge sizes, such as arapaima, so they are estimated from their measurements.
That was the one i was thinking of. I actually agree with you in terms of them being freshwater, but from a scientific viewpoint they aren't - only what i was told when i made enquiries about whether or not Ian's is the biggest ever freshwater fish.
I know others who'll argue that anything you catch in freshwater counts as a freshwater species - i know Joe Taylor has a sturgeon and tarpon amongst his ten (i think) species over 100 lb from freshwater, because both were caught miles up river from the sea.
As for weighing fish of this size it would be virtually impossible without killing or harming the fish - the same goes for other species that grow to huge sizes, such as arapaima, so they are estimated from their measurements.
Well done Ian Welch and team...fantastic fish.
Biggest freshwater fish caught on rod and line ?...thats an interesting one...I think Gary mentioned earlir Arapaima, yep I would agree they are a contender, how big ? ...200kg ? ...and I seem to recall stories of anglers going to the Amazon to try specifically for them, wasnt John Bailey one of them...how big do Wels go ? ...wasnt there a real monster of close to 200kg netted somewere? ...I could be wrong ...Those I would class as true freshwater fish.
However I also would have said Strugeon were the biggest toobut its true you then you openup a whole can of worms as I thinksome really big Shark that have been caught in estuarysin Australia and the like.
Not that it really matters but its fun to speculate.
Biggest freshwater fish caught on rod and line ?...thats an interesting one...I think Gary mentioned earlir Arapaima, yep I would agree they are a contender, how big ? ...200kg ? ...and I seem to recall stories of anglers going to the Amazon to try specifically for them, wasnt John Bailey one of them...how big do Wels go ? ...wasnt there a real monster of close to 200kg netted somewere? ...I could be wrong ...Those I would class as true freshwater fish.
However I also would have said Strugeon were the biggest toobut its true you then you openup a whole can of worms as I thinksome really big Shark that have been caught in estuarysin Australia and the like.
Not that it really matters but its fun to speculate.
Gary Newman
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Phillip,
The arapaima in South America don't actually grow as big as the ones in Thailand due to their environment, and am pretty sure that anything over 200 lb is huge in the wild - I have a feeling that the IGFA record is even lower than this. A friend, Stuart Gillham, who owns a lake in Thailand was telling me that the original way of estimating arapaima weights from their length just doesn't work with the fish that he has in his lake because they are so much fatter than those found in South America. It wouldn't surprise me if Thailand did one around the 600-700 lb mark in the future.
Sturgeon are actually classed as freshwater by IGFA, although their record is well below what they have been caught to.
The arapaima in South America don't actually grow as big as the ones in Thailand due to their environment, and am pretty sure that anything over 200 lb is huge in the wild - I have a feeling that the IGFA record is even lower than this. A friend, Stuart Gillham, who owns a lake in Thailand was telling me that the original way of estimating arapaima weights from their length just doesn't work with the fish that he has in his lake because they are so much fatter than those found in South America. It wouldn't surprise me if Thailand did one around the 600-700 lb mark in the future.
Sturgeon are actually classed as freshwater by IGFA, although their record is well below what they have been caught to.
Gary, yes your right, thats why I suggested that i would have gone for the Sturgeon if pushed because as you say I think IGFA class it as "freshwater" even if we all know better /forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif
Thats interesting what you say about the Arapaima...am I right in thinking the Thailand ones were imported and put into a sort of forced enviroment ? ...I guess a bit like imported or Carp that attain unnaturally high weights.
I think there have beenreports of Arapaima recorded/seenin the wild of 200lbs but what the rod caught best would be I have no idea...as you say its prob alot less...and if it was an estimate based on length then it will beno more than a guess anyway.
I would have thought one of the catfish species must be in with a shout of being the biggest true freshwater fish...isnt there some monster species over Thailand way as well ?
Thats interesting what you say about the Arapaima...am I right in thinking the Thailand ones were imported and put into a sort of forced enviroment ? ...I guess a bit like imported or Carp that attain unnaturally high weights.
I think there have beenreports of Arapaima recorded/seenin the wild of 200lbs but what the rod caught best would be I have no idea...as you say its prob alot less...and if it was an estimate based on length then it will beno more than a guess anyway.
I would have thought one of the catfish species must be in with a shout of being the biggest true freshwater fish...isnt there some monster species over Thailand way as well ?
Gary Newman
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Philip,
The arapaima in Thailand were imported and live in lakes, so totally different to their natural environment where they live in rivers and then when the rains come and the rivers flood they move into the forest. So the wild ones tend to be a lot less fat from what i have seen from photos - would love to go for in South America.
It is almost impossible to weigh arapaima due to the blood vessel running the length of their back which bursts if the fish is bent round at all, leading to its death, hence the estimated weight.
My friend Stuart Gillham who has a lake in Thailand was sending details of some of his fish to IGFA when he was enquiring about what would be needed to claim the record , and from the length measurements he gave they didn't believe his weight estimations, then he gave them the girths and they changed their mind, saying that the wild fish are totally different and a new scale would be needed for the Thai fish.
I can't remember how big Mekong catfish go, i believe they grow very large in the wild, but they are plankton feeders and i believe will only take bait once they've been in a water for a while and get used to it, other than accidentally inhaling your rig whilst they are feeding.
Siamese carp also grow to huge sizes, in excess of 450 lb i believe, but the real big ones rarely come up for sale and are hugely expensive, so lake owners generally don't get hold of them - a big Siamese carp is a status symbol in Thailand (much like the Japanese with Koi) so the rich businessmen buy the biggest that they can to keep in their garden pond (lake).
The arapaima in Thailand were imported and live in lakes, so totally different to their natural environment where they live in rivers and then when the rains come and the rivers flood they move into the forest. So the wild ones tend to be a lot less fat from what i have seen from photos - would love to go for in South America.
It is almost impossible to weigh arapaima due to the blood vessel running the length of their back which bursts if the fish is bent round at all, leading to its death, hence the estimated weight.
My friend Stuart Gillham who has a lake in Thailand was sending details of some of his fish to IGFA when he was enquiring about what would be needed to claim the record , and from the length measurements he gave they didn't believe his weight estimations, then he gave them the girths and they changed their mind, saying that the wild fish are totally different and a new scale would be needed for the Thai fish.
I can't remember how big Mekong catfish go, i believe they grow very large in the wild, but they are plankton feeders and i believe will only take bait once they've been in a water for a while and get used to it, other than accidentally inhaling your rig whilst they are feeding.
Siamese carp also grow to huge sizes, in excess of 450 lb i believe, but the real big ones rarely come up for sale and are hugely expensive, so lake owners generally don't get hold of them - a big Siamese carp is a status symbol in Thailand (much like the Japanese with Koi) so the rich businessmen buy the biggest that they can to keep in their garden pond (lake).
Interesting stuff Gary...I did not know that about the blood vessels down the back of the Arapaima.
I saw some amazing footage some time backwith Arapaima as you say moving out of the main river and into flooded forest during high levels ..I seem to remember abig cat (as in Jaguar or similar)trying to catch one on the shallows...great footage.Supposedly the Arapaima are very visual and surface repeatedly flashing their red fins in a very showery display. Itmade me laugh when I read an account about an angler who went there sayinghe was relying on this display to help him find them on an expedition.....I could not help but think ...a 200lb fish in a few inches of flooded forest and you want it to leap about flashing its red fins as well so youcanspot it? .....perhaps you'd like it to grow a flashing neon sign on its head as well... /forum/smilies/big_smile_smiley.gif
Yes I would love tohave a go for one too...who knows...maybe one day....but it would have to be the wild one...I don’t mean to disparage but the stocked Thai ones would just not hold the same appeal for me even if they went twice as big.
Meekong catsand Siamese Carp...yep both are monsters indeed and true Freshwater too.... I read somewhere or other aboutnative local anglers who had a method for catching the Meekongs by basically usingbare hooks in a load of cloudy feedso thatwhen it sucks the whole lot including the hook flies into its mouth.
I saw some amazing footage some time backwith Arapaima as you say moving out of the main river and into flooded forest during high levels ..I seem to remember abig cat (as in Jaguar or similar)trying to catch one on the shallows...great footage.Supposedly the Arapaima are very visual and surface repeatedly flashing their red fins in a very showery display. Itmade me laugh when I read an account about an angler who went there sayinghe was relying on this display to help him find them on an expedition.....I could not help but think ...a 200lb fish in a few inches of flooded forest and you want it to leap about flashing its red fins as well so youcanspot it? .....perhaps you'd like it to grow a flashing neon sign on its head as well... /forum/smilies/big_smile_smiley.gif
Yes I would love tohave a go for one too...who knows...maybe one day....but it would have to be the wild one...I don’t mean to disparage but the stocked Thai ones would just not hold the same appeal for me even if they went twice as big.
Meekong catsand Siamese Carp...yep both are monsters indeed and true Freshwater too.... I read somewhere or other aboutnative local anglers who had a method for catching the Meekongs by basically usingbare hooks in a load of cloudy feedso thatwhen it sucks the whole lot including the hook flies into its mouth.
Gary Newman
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Philip,
Arapaima are air breathers - think they are the only fish that are - so they have to come to the surface every 20-30 minutes to take a breath.
For such a big fish with armour-plated scales they are very fragile. They can also be damaged when being unhooked as the mouth works much like that of a snake where the jaws are dislocated for a fraction of a second whilst they 'inhale' their prey, if the mouth is forced open then it can tear these muscles and stop the fish feeding, so a barbless hook is best and if they do take it down you just cut the line, much like you would with an eel.
Arapaima are air breathers - think they are the only fish that are - so they have to come to the surface every 20-30 minutes to take a breath.
For such a big fish with armour-plated scales they are very fragile. They can also be damaged when being unhooked as the mouth works much like that of a snake where the jaws are dislocated for a fraction of a second whilst they 'inhale' their prey, if the mouth is forced open then it can tear these muscles and stop the fish feeding, so a barbless hook is best and if they do take it down you just cut the line, much like you would with an eel.
Greg Whitehead
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Ray, I think you might find Ian's not fishing CEMEX waters much anymore. Can't remember off the top of my head why.....
Zeb ain't too chuffed that the British press have been reporting the fish as the biggest ever caught in freshwater. I think part of his research involves establishing whether they are a migratory species that returns to the sea. Bit of 'spin' never hurt anyone though....
Iandid damn well to catch three in a day and to get the big one in in 90 minutes. Most other anglers blank or get smashed up after six hour-long battles! Looks like the bourbon poisoninggave him super-strength! /forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif
Zeb ain't too chuffed that the British press have been reporting the fish as the biggest ever caught in freshwater. I think part of his research involves establishing whether they are a migratory species that returns to the sea. Bit of 'spin' never hurt anyone though....
Iandid damn well to catch three in a day and to get the big one in in 90 minutes. Most other anglers blank or get smashed up after six hour-long battles! Looks like the bourbon poisoninggave him super-strength! /forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif