Angler's Mail Irresponsible?

[Charlie Bettell]

As I have said so many times before, either do away with the close season altogether - or have a close season right across the board.

If water owners want to impose a close season, when a specific species of fish is close to spawning, good on 'em!

I'm afraid 'greed' and 'ego' will always outweigh what's best for the fish!

 

[Ray Roberts]

Charlie, It would seem that I misunderstood your stance on this. I thought from the tone of your earlier post that you were pro fishing for pike near the actualspawning period. Please accept my apologies.

 

[Charlie Bettell]

Why are you just referring to pike Ray?......!

If you had your way, what would youput in place to preventanglers fishing for spawning 'coarse' fish - not just pike!

Q: An across the board close season?

If so, howwould such a close seasonwork country wide - as coarse fish/pike spawn at different times of the year - depending on weather/water conditions,and graphical location.

 

[Ray Roberts]

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Charlie Bettell wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

Why are you just referring to pike Ray?......!

If you had your way, what would youput in place to preventanglers fishing for spawning 'coarse' fish - not just pike!

Q: An across the board close season?

If so, howwould such a close seasonwork country wide - as coarse fish/pike spawn at different times of the year - depending on graphical location.</blockquote>
The reason this thread is about pike is because that is what the article in the Angler's Mail was about. Although you and Mark Barratt, are I am sure, adept at unhooking and quickly returning pike, not all anglers share your expertise and advising the general readership of a magazine to target pike at a time when they are not at their best is to my mind irresponsible. I am in favour of a close season though I doubt it will ever return, that's why I think we should use our own common sense over when we target any particular species.

 

[Charlie Bettell]

You did not answer my question Ray - so I'll rephrase it...

If you had your way, what would youput in place to preventanglers fishing for spawning pike!

Q: An across the board close season?

If so, howwould such a close seasonwork country wide - as pike spawn at different times of the year - depending on graphical location.

As Mark said, he did not come up with the heading for the piece.

Where is 'your' evidence to say pike are more vulnerable if caught pre spawn or post spawn.

As I have said, pike are not overlyinterested in feeding during spawning.

I have taken the time to answer your comments in full, please do the same in return.

 

[Charlie Bettell]

Ray Roberts Wrote:-

"A couple of weeks ago I bought a copy of the Angler's Mail. One of the articles on pike fishingwritten byMark Barrett advocated fishing the shallower areas of waters at this time of year as he saidthe fish were moving into them in order to spawn, so not only were they there in numbers they would also be easier to catch."

"Advocating the catching pike that have moved onto their spawning
grounds is irresponsible to say the least, but coming from the General
Secretary of the PAC, it is unforgivable."

* As I previously said Ray, pike are in the shallows all year round nowadays.

* I spend nearly 9 months of the year fishing shallows.

* There is nothing wrong with targeting pikein shallow water - i.e. the shallow waters where they spawn!

* It is impossible to know 'just when' pike will spawn on the shallows - or when pre spawn or post spawn is - i.e. if you do not fish the area regularly.

By the way, I'm not a member of the PAC - should you think I'm trying to defend the PAC.

 

[Andy Frost]

Not often I agree with Charlie , but he is quite correct when he says about having to fish an area or water regularly to know the exact time. I was fishing a water on the last day of the season , I moved into a favoured bay around lunchtime only to be met by a group of Pike wallowing around , I watched them for a few minutes , cranked in and went home.

My personal take is leave them alone to spawn and then recover in peace , at least that way , if we all did it , there would be no ifs or buts as to whether they would still be around come next season. At the end of the day , it's all about respecting your chosen quarry.

Andy.

 

[John H Member of THE C.S.G.. & The A.T.]

Strange in-it, that whatone wrote almost 10 years agohas sometimes a nasty habit of comingback to bite you in the bum.

"its' legal, fun andset tobecome very popular" (can't be sure of the exact wording, but it was someone writing in Coarse Fisherman about lure fishing on rivers for coarsefish (oh sorry, trout) during the close season for coarse fish

 

[Charlie Bettell]

You have never, ever,seen me write about fly fishing for pike in the coarse fishing river close season. The coarse fishing open season, yes!, you may well have done.

And yes, I do fly fish for sea trout in the Salmon & Trout Game Season - but no more thana handful oftimes during the season.

If you have evidence to suggest that I purposefully target pike during the coarse fishing river close season, let's be having it.

For the record, not only do I fly fish for sea trout during the coarse fishing river close season, but I also fly fish for resident brown trout on non tidal Norfolk rivers - from April 1st to June 15th.

 

[Ray Roberts]

Charlie, so many questions,so little time.

I would like to see a close season especialy for pike, It's my understanding, and I know there may be exceptions, that the main spawning period for pike is between mid March and late may. The existing close season would therefore cover this period and in the main allow at least some time pre and post spawning.

Mark may not have come up with the heading of his piece, however the title of the thread asks if the <u>Angler's Mail</u> is irresponsible. I still happen to think they have been.

You ask what evidence do I have that pike are vulnerable pre and post spawning. Pike although of a ferocious aspect are to my mindfairly fragile creatures at all times. The evidence I have for this is the way their numbers suffer on waters that become pressurised and the way in whichthe pike returns diminish on reservoirs newly opened to pike angling . I am unaware of <u>any species</u> that actually gain any benefit by experiencing stress oroutside pressure during their breeding season. This extends to most if not all living creatures.I see no earthly reason that pike should be different in this respect.

I don't have a problem with fishing shallows or others doing the same. I have a problem with the deliberate targeting of a species during it's breeding period. I place the welfare of the species as a whole far above a trophy shot or a heavily spawn laden PB.

I hope I have answered your questions fully. If I haven't I am sure you will tell me /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif.

 

[Charlie Bettell]

Pike are not fragile if handled/treated properly Ray - even when caught during the spawning period - which I have done many a time over the years.

I have been pike fishing for 30 plus years now - during which time I have seen the spawning period of pike go from late January, some 20 years back, to possibly as late as May nowadays.

If things changed weather wise, back to the good ol' winter, spring, summer and autumns of old, spawning times would revert back to how they once were.

Would I fish for pike if I knew they were spawning well before the end of the coarse fishing river close season?

Yes, I would!

Why?...!

Because pike do not all spawn at the same time.

Did pike sufferif caught back in the days when they spawned late January or February - no they didn't - not by my hand anyway!

As I said, when pike are close to spawning, or spawning, they have little interest in feeding.

 

[stuart clough]

Taking a scientific view, this from Mann (1975):

"Opercular bones of 261 pike from the River Stour and 117 from the River Frome were used for age and back-calculated growth determinations. The annuli were laid down during late April and early May and most growth occurred between May and September. Spawning occurred from the end of March into May. Elaboration of the ovaries commenced in September and was virtually completed by February, whereas the testes reached their maximum weight in October and maintained it until spawning. "

So pre-spawning can be taken as the period from September to May.

"Immature pike had an annual cycle of condition reaching a maximum in May and a minimum during the winter. The gonad cycle affected the condition of mature females which had their minimum condition in mid-summer."

On this basis, it seems sensible to avoid targetting adult pike from the end of March until, say September.

 

[Ray Roberts]

Stuart, It wasn't too long ago that most club fisheries banned pike fishing from the begining of the close season untill October. I don't suggest we go back to those days, I don't even object to catching fishcarrying spawn, which they do for a great part of the year, however, we should in my opinion cut them some slack around the spawning period. I know the spawning period is not fixed but the majority of it would be covered by the traditional close season.

Charlie, asI said in an earlier post not everyone who fishes for pike has your skills. Targeting them when far from their prime cannot in my opinion be in the best interests of the fish.

 

[Gary Newman]

I think there is a big difference between targeting fish when they are at their heaviest - which i will happily do - and turning up at a lake, seeing fish thrashing about spawning and setting up on top of them - which i personally wouldn't do as I'd leave them to it and go and fish for something else or on a different water.
Most of my club waters still have a traditional close season, or at the very least a couple of months shutdown.

 

[preston96]

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Ray Roberts wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>I don't wish to be cynical, but could some of the people in favour of targeting fish during their spawning period not have a vested intrest in persuing them at this time. It could just be that they make a living as professional angling guides. As I mentioned at the outset a bit of self restraint would not go amiss.</blockquote>


I just have a vestedinterest in FISHING!.....................common sense is all that is needed.............sorry Ray,but whilst i think you mean well i thinkyou are totally wrong in persuing this one.

 

[peter waller 2]

The season isn't always kind to pike, a mild winter & they do start their spawning activities as early as mid February. I'm not so sure that it is whilst actually spawning that matters, because they simply don't feed. That said I am concerned when a heavily spawn laden fish is unfortunately caught by absolute numpties. Once spawning is over then they feed heavily, I wonder if that is not when they are most vulnerable.

We do have a season, I abide by it and it does annoy me when I see people flouting it, or trying to get round it by bending the rules, as some do, and even bragging that they do.

 

[preston96]

<blockquote class=quoteheader>peter waller 2 wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>The season isn't always kind to pike, a mild winter & they do start their spawning activities as early as mid February. I'm not so sure that it is whilst actually spawning that matters, because they simply don't feed. That said I am concerned when a heavily spawn laden fish is unfortunately caught by absolute numpties. Once spawning is over then they feed heavily, I wonder if that is not when they are most vulnerable. We do have a season, I abide by it and it does annoy me when I see people flouting it, or trying to get round it by bending the rules, as some do, and even bragging that they do. </blockquote>


Peter,no matter what path we choose in life,the "absolute numpties" will always give us cause for concern.

 

[Charlie Bettell]

Who do you, personally,see flouting the river close season Peter?

Over the last five years, I have probably fished for sea trout aboutten times - and been successful on most occasions.

Personally, I have no interest whatsoever in fly fishing rivers, for pike,from March 15th to June 15th.

If I want to go pike fishing during the coarse fishing river close season, I have plenty of places I can fish - totally legal.

Isn't it about time you stopped allyour silly allegations - if you have evidence people are breaking the law, expose them.

 

[peter waller 2]

I'm not going to be drawn into your childish arguments, Charlie, sorry. This isn't the Pike & Predators forum, long may it remain that way.

 

[Charlie Bettell]

It's you that is making childish comments Peter - of which you never produce evidence to back them up.

You're right Peter, this in not the P&P Forums - so please refrain from playing your silly mind games on here.

Peter Waller Wrote:-

"We do have a season, I abide by it and it does annoy me when I see people flouting it, or trying to get round it by bending the rules, as some do, and even bragging that they do."