Bolt rigs/fixed leads for pike?

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Rob Brownfield

Guest
Chris...I can assure you that Pike will sit in one spot and chomp a fish down without moving. I am lucky in that the waters I fish are gin clear, and i have seen pike come up to a bait, flair its gills as u quite rightly say, and then sit there, openning and closing its gills in an exagerated movement, causing the bait to move down the throat. I must say though, that this is with small baits, up to about 5 inches.

When all is said and done, if you are using a float, you are immediatly creating a form of "drag" due to the float creating resistance, and the line on the surface too. Maybe this is why i very rarely miss a float caught fish. With ledgering, I have recently been missing heaps of fish at long range with braid. I have put this down to 30 pound braid not moving through the lead, and the lead being 3 oz. I was getting short, stuttering runs, or just plucks at the rod tip. After changing to a paternoster with a 3 foot drop, the runs became more positive, changing the braid for 15 pound mono, I started to get proper runs.

So my conclusion is....heavy weights (2oz+), fixed or poor running (due to braid friction) equal dropped or stuttering runs with many lost fish....floats or light fixed leads lead to more fish hooked, normally in the scissors.

Just an opinion ...
 
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Phil Heaton

Guest
I've found that Polaris floats are a good compromise between float fishing and ledgering, with the bait paternostered.
The slightest movement of the bait can generally be seen at the float prior to the lead being dislodged. This works on moving water as well as still, although on moving water it pays to fish with a small bow in the line.
 
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Charlie Bettell

Guest
Totally agree with you Rob regarding pike chomping a bait on the spot - i.e. without moving more than a couple of inches.

A large buoyant float, 'just' laid flat on the surface, will greatly help in detecting those 'on the spot' chomping type bites. As a pike chomps on the bait, rings come from the base of the 'laid flat' float - just like the rings you see when a peble is tossed into the water. If I were not to fish this way, I would miss out on a lot of those lethargic bites - bites that will often cease to mature if not struck at straight away.

It would appear that some people in this forum do not experience the same as you and I Rob - or they are not spotting/seeing those very lethargic bites to which I have just referred.
 
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Chris Bishop

Guest
I'll always use a float as first choice and you're right, if it's set up right and you're fishing at close range you can often spot minute indications which sometimes preclude a full-blooded take.

But what happens if you have to leger because you can't hold a bait in a particular spot without doing it for whatever reason.

Or it's windy - like it usually is round here. Or you have to fish at 60 yards from the bank to get near a feature..?

Does the bouyant float hook the fish for you..?

This seems to happen a lot when I'm drifter fishing; the fish hooks itself against the resistance of the float/vane as it sinks back down, after coming up in the water to take the bait.
 
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Charlie Bettell

Guest
It's people like you Cyril that makes me clam up. Why should I share my closely kept secrets with people who have an attitude such as yours? Anybody who has to resort to the likes of 'p*****' and 'bloddy' in these forums, which young kids visit, deserves to be kept in the dark.
 
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Gary Knowles

Guest
Charlie,

Your right, there is no need for abuse on this or any other forum. But he does have a bit of a point don't you think ?

Personally i think you've been going on about the confidence rig for a bit too long now and it is getting a bit 'old hat', if it really is going to save lives of pike surely the sooner its out in the open the better, it would mean pike being saved on a daily basis ! However if it isn't a safety issue and it's just about you putting more fish on the bank then I don't blame you and I would keep it quiet as well.

Perhaps its time to either tell this site about it or let it drop........I think it's now got to the point now when most people don't care either way any more !
 
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Charlie Bettell

Guest
Fortunately Chris, I do not have a problem fishing the way that I described above in slow moving or fast flowing waters, or in calm or windy conditions - I would simply position my boat to compensate for the conditions.

If the water were flowing fast, I would position my boat so that I can cast down the flow - and then I would only cast a few yards.

If I had to cast 60 yards, like you described, I would have to have a complete re-think - i.e. about giving up pike fishing and taking up a new sport (!)
 
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The Seeker of Truth & Justice

Guest
Gary your absolutely right, that's what Im getting at.

Charlie, ok pardon my french, so you don't want to tell me, i can live with that, but what about all the other suckers your playing around with, taunting people with 'secrets' and all this just wait a bit longer rubbish.

for gods sake grow up and tell us or go away and keep it to yourself, one or the other.
 
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Charlie Bettell

Guest
Gary: "However if it isn't a safety issue and it's just about you putting more fish on the bank then I don't blame you and I would keep it quiet as well."

It is about saftey Gary, and about putting pike in the boat.

I will no reveal the compleate rig until I am ready - the rig, if not fished as it should be, could result in deep hooked pike.

Unlike some people, I do not go to print until I have something really worthwhile to show people, i.e. with text and pictures, and am 100% happy, provided my instructions are followed correctly, that I will not be the cause of pike being injured/deep hooked.

I have seen things written in magazines of late that has made my blood boil - the articles being potentially dangerous to the readers - and pike!!

I do not intend to be another of those anglers that is prepared to put a few quid above the welfare of the fish that I love so much. As I have said for the last month, when the time is right, you'll hear all about the rig - until then, you wont hear another word about it in this forum.
 
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Charlie Bettell

Guest
What is your problem Cyril? I can't understand why you are so hell bent on finding out about my rig - are you a tackle manufacturer?

Read the above, it explainsall.
 
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The Seeker of Truth & Justice

Guest
my problem is that I beleive your just using the whole thing to tell paople how good you think you are and advertise your own web site. Your like a kid saying "nah nah, nah nah, nah, I know this and im not telling you! you'l have to wait until his lordship is ready." this is what you wrote earlier.

"Personally speaking, I don't think you can beat my good ol' Confidence Rig - is has no fixed/semi-fixed weight, it is anti tangle proof, it is also anti bite off and anti snag proof. The leger weight can even be made to stay next to the wire trace when in flight - i.e. without having to fix something behind the leger weight. It works for leger weights ranging from 1-4oz! What more could you ask for!

The Confidence Rig, which is a 'float leger rig', even has the ability to make a deadbait, appear to a pike, to be alive (!)

I will be doing a feature on my Confidence Rig, on Predator Fishing UK, very soon."

Read it again everybody and then tell me im wrong.

and another thing, if your not sure yet that it doesnt cause deep hooking why are you using it yourself? don't deep hooked pike count if theyre caught during trials? and dont say its cos you know how to use it and nobody else does. whats wrong with telling people how to use it.

biggest load of twoddle ive ever heard. just tell us what it is or dont tell us, but cut out all this 'secret' crap before we all throw up.
 
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Peter Waller

Guest
I don't bait fish enough to be able to comment with any greater authority than anyone else but I will make a few points. Dennis Pye, great man, great catcher of big pike, used a double float, bit like a dumbell. He also used big baits. The float, being in two parts, would show a bite by the first half going under. The two halves together though, provided great resistance. I only ever fished with him once, as a kid, so I didn't really understand the principal at the time. But looking back I often wonder if intentional resistance was a valid part of the set up. Second point, when lure fishing, I have had numerous takes where the only indication has been that the line is seen going off sidewards. I have felt absolutely nothing, other than sometimes that the lure has stopped working. In other words the pike has maintained the resistance exactly, neither increased nor decreased. It's uncanny when it happens, and these pike have always been 20 pound plus. Based on that I think it safe to assume that pike can be ultra sensitive to resistance.
 
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Gary Knowles

Guest
I see your vow not to mention 'the rig' again didn't last long Charlie :eek:)

I rekon it a gill net anyway............
 
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David Will

Guest
"With ledgering, I have recently been missing heaps of fish at long range with braid. I have put this down to 30 pound braid"
Rob B. When I first used braid for Zandering it was to get distance on the Relief Channel. Before going up there I loaded the reels and had a play around in the garden setting up the rods and seeing how best to set up a running rig. I quickly became aware that the resistance caused by braid even with a low rsistance bead was horrendous. Like you I found it jumped and grated and felt very rough to me pulling on the trace end and this was with a open bail arm. It was no better when i wetted the line. As a result I used a nylon shock leader of 30 ft 30lb amnesia.The difference was amazing. Smooth passage through the bead.On casting I found that I still had a distinct improvement in casting range and bite indication plus a nice buffer for those nasty moments when Zander go beserk under the rod tip.
 
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Rob Brownfield

Guest
David, thank god I am not the only one with problems with braid when it comes to resistance and distance fishing :)

Charlie...if only my waters were calm enough to see small ripples from the float..hehe...last time out I had 60 mph gusts sweeping across 5 miles of water. It was like fishing off the beach!

I think this subject is facinating...when float fishing, i tend to use a barrel lead of about 1/2oz..this naturally does not really run up the braid on a take..so it must give some resistence...hmmm...time to experiment I think!
 
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Chris Bishop

Guest
I reckon it's because braid isn't as smooth and it also tries to float up (if you're still using Fireline, Whiplash etc...).

If you've got 30 yards of it tight and trying to float to the top, it can't slip through the eye of a bomb/leger bead or whatever you use as easily as a neutral mono.
 
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Rob Brownfield

Guest
Chris...spot on. I am fishing at about 100 yards..(I wade out 20-30 first)with a 3-4 oz lead to beat the head wind. I think I might get a boat instead..lol
 
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Charlie Bettell

Guest
Cyril, where did you see me say that I, personally, have deep hooked pike using the rig? I said I feared others would not use the rig as intended - i.e. if I only gave people a few pointers. I will do a proper feature on the rig when I'm ready - end of subject!!

If you had a good look through my web site you would see many of the rigs that I have mentioned in this forum, illustrated - i.e. as I would recommend people to use them.

I could tell people to visit my web site far more, to look at the articles, but I don't - for fear of the likes of you giving me an ear bashing for promoting my web site - which, I might add, has been established far far longer than most now seen on the internet.

Do you just like moaning Cyril,or are you just out to discredit me - if that's the case, I'm afraid your wasting you time - it's a bit like water off a ducks back to me now (!)
 
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Charlie Bettell

Guest
One other thing Cyril.

I have no problem with people talking about other web sites or forums on my Predator Fishing UK Forum, so what's the difference with me, or others, telling people about other, or their web sites.

Predator Fishing UK is a non money making site - so what is the problem with me mentioning it?

You're being very picky Cyril.
 
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