braided reel lines

[Laurie Harper]

Alan - my being "beaten", i.e. brokenby a barbel has no long term implications for my welfare, apart from minor annoyance and the loss of a few pence worth of terminal tackle. However, the barbel may not be so fortunate. It may become tethered by the line it is trailing. It may have gorged the hook. I'm afraid it is naive to think in the way you do. Read Cakey's and Bob's comments above. The fun starts with fooling the fish into accepting your bait. The fight is part of the enjoyment,sure, but always remember the consequences are not the same for fish and angler.

 

[Neil Maidment]

In my opinion, it's about balance and experience. I've had barbel on all sorts of gear, intentially and unintentionally, rod and line and the pole. I target barbel with what I hope is an appropriate set of tackle for the situation at hand, from the bait, hooking setup, line, rod and reel.

In many situations I will use a centrepin, for my own enjoyment and the control I can apply to the hooked fish. That"finesse" (if Idare use that word) has more often than not allowedme to land a barbel far quicker than it would take with a balanced fixed spool (and probably heavier) set up. If "pushed", I will happily admit to being an experienced 'pin user!

Having said all that, I'm not agreat fan of braid of anykind(mainline or hooklength material) when targetting barbel (but I rarely fish places like the Trent).

 

[Paul H]

I use braid, as I've noted already, most often for predator fishing.

I have 30lb Power-Pro for lighter lures, 50lb Fox Torque for heavier lures and 80lb Berkley braid for bait fishing.

All well over the breaking strain required to land any U.K freshwater fish, I don't however lock the clutch down and just reel them in. I still set the clutch at a reasonable resistance - allowing the fish to take line if it runs and play it in to the net. The high breaking strain is simply a sympton of having to use thicker braid for better abrasion resistance it doesn't mean you have to drag the fish in like it was a tow-rope.

As I said before it is a tool which has benefits in certain situations (e.g it's lack of stetch and straight pull strength).

Edit

I don't see that braid is necessary as a mainline for barbel (i.e it offers no advantages over mono) unless you're rolling meat. Even then given the relatively short fishing range on a river mono is perfectly acceptable, indeed it's abrasion resistance would to me make it the most suitable type of line in most situations.

 

[alan whittington]

Cakey,when i go fishing i plan the way i want to play the fish before i cast in and i am more than confident with my tackle and my ability to land fish upon the 8lb line,if i wasnt i would not use it,if howeveryou are only confident in not being broken on 20-30lb then that is your choice to make,do not come down the angling press and B.S.route that i should use 12-15lb mono which to me is carp tackle unless i say again on rocky,snaggy venues or extremely large fish are expected.

To answer Lauries point,i would like to know where he fishes because if the venues he fishes are suitable has he ever fished with 8lb line for barbel because and please do not take this as an insult for i dont know you,if you havnt fished for barbel long it has become standard measure to use 12lb line for them but it used to be the norm to use 6lb,in fact when i started fishingfor barbel in the seventies i cant recall anyone writing on the use of 8lb there were never masses of fish lost,unless lack of experience played a part,which happens in most forms of our sport.Now 8lb line is commonly advised for chub,seems incredible to me for i have caught many over 5lb on 2lb line without problem,that said my normal big bait chub gear would be 5-6lb line,the choice is your own,thankfully i am not made to follow suit and finally you seem to have missed the point,what happens when YOU snag with 20-30lb braid and barbel takes the bait because i fear that fishes future is far more certain than mine or can you pull trees out with it,maybe thats the sport in it,i didnt think of that/forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif.

 

[Laurie Harper]

I mainly fish a couple of lower Thames weirpools - full of rocks and nasty sharp things. The main problem is abrasion, not outright snagging. Braid is much more resistant to being rubbed against rocks and edges. I do use mono in clear water conditions, but never drop below 10 lb.

You are quite correctthat it is possible to land large fish on light line. I've caught large chub and a few barbel on 2lb line when trotting for roach. However, they take ages to land and can need nursing when they go back. Whilst accidental captures are unavoidable, to fish with light lines deliberately is not an option for me. As I said previously, being "beaten" for me is a minor annoyance. For the fish, the consequences may be more serious, to the extent that it isn't the "winner" at all...

 

[Cakey]

Alan I didnt tell you to do anything ,I was saying that yours and mine ideas seem to differ ....read my post again

at the end of the day same result ................fish on the bank !

 

[alan whittington]

Sorry Cakey i re-read your post and took it in completely the wrong way.

Onto the Thames weirpools,again totally understandable unless your using it straight through Laurie(in my opinion,its whatyour confident with that counts).The return of the apostrophied beaten meaning broken is not an option if you play the fish,its the likening to 2lb line to 6lb or 8lb that i cant quite cotton onto for as was said earlier you cant possibly apply the pressure to use the b.s. with any barbel rod(unless you point it to reduce the angle therefore increasing pressure)so the only gainsare shock and abrasion resistance,to which each 2lb jump is quite minor above 8lb in the lines that i use.

This thread was started to try and gain some understanding in the reasoning for such large braid strengths are being used and i didnt expect to have to defend my line strength preference as to be a possible barbel killer when in fairness i have lost one this season down to not spotting the danger of a newsnag in a known swimwhich the fish kited into andi unknowing had allowed itentry,we all make mistakes it wont happenagain(nothing to do with line strength though you cant drag a sunken wedged lump of hawthorn out even on 30lb braid,i couldnt even get it out with a towrope later).

 

[Laurie Harper]

No I don't use braid reel line straight through and I do realise that one must play a fish. However,playing them for me doesn't mean knackering them... I want to get them in as quickly as possible.

When I land them in, I want them stilllively - to the extent that they can be a bit of a handful on the bank (another reason to carry adecent unhooking mat.) That means that when I return them, they don't need much nursing/holding in the current. They're usuallystruggling to get out of my hands.

 

[johnnyfby]

i know lots of trent barbel anglers and none of them use braid with an higher breaking strain of 20lb. i only use it for chucking the feeders in and for the less line resistance on the river. i dont use braid straight through either, i incorporate a mini shock leader. after 6 months of fishing i have just checked my braid for wear and tear and have only needed to cut off a couple of yards, ready for next season now. if i had been using mono, i may have needed to get some new line. As for playing fish when they are on, i play each one and only add more pressure when they are near snags, i am not an advocate of just winding a fish in as quickly as possible.

johnny

 

[Paul H]

Personally I am much happier using mono in snaggy swims than braid. Where the mono and braid re of similar diameters the mono will withstand much more punishment than the braid.

It is only in straight pulls that braid wins.

 

[alan whittington]

This is really a hornets nest ive brought up,because there is always somebody that believes certain lines are the right ones for there situations,i mean to say when a fella like Bob Roberts defends the use of braid in his dvd but in his normal fishing situations uses mono himself its just personal preference and as i said before you cant apply the strength of 10lb(or even 6lb) on a 2.5lb test curve rod so how can it be possible to land a fish quicker on 30lb,it can only be that an anglers confidence is not as high on the lower b.s. ,and asmost barbel fishing situations are done with with around1.75lb t.c.the only question mark is abrasion resistance which on 8-10lb plus with a quality line is generally good.

Laurie,i will ask you the question if fishing away from the Thames weirpools did you gain your opinions on the use of 10lb plus only by your own experiences or by advice given(either way is sound because it obviously works for you),just that it worries me where you get the idea that barbel health issues orfatalities are linked with lines below 10lb.

Cheers Alan

 

[Laurie Harper]

You may not be able to break line with a steady pull on a rod with a given test curve, but sudden shock loading is different - I've had a 6lb braid hooklength break when using a 1.25 lb tc rod (it was Silkworm, a perfectly good product and I'd tied the correct knots. I just wasn't using it in a strong enough strain, so the fault was mine).

My opinions are gained via experience, such as the preceding. And, of course, I take heed ofothers whose views I respect. It's for you tomake your own decisions. However, you did post and ask for our opinions.

 

[Titus]

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Bob Roberts wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

When we filmed on the Kennet with Steve Pope during the making of Volume Two he used braid as a reel line. The reason for this is that it makes the hook itself the weakest part of his rig. In the event of a snag-up he could pull till the hook opened out and not leave any discarded tackle on the riverbed.

That's a pretty sensible practise if you ask me.</blockquote>

I'm sorry, I can't agree with this. I remember the same argument for unbreakable tackle being used to 'sculldrag' tench out of Sywell's weeds in the late 80's. A practice which resulted in them all developing horrendous mouth damage and the lake being declared a float only zone effectively stopping the fishing on there.

The use of strong braid does not guarantee it will not break........the smallest nick is easily overlooked and can lead to catastrophic failure leaving a fish trailing allot of unbreakable line.

I've seen Steve's rigs, in real life and on the Dynamite website, while not tether rigs they could be simpler containing several superfluous components that could easily tangle with trailing line turning them into tether rigs.

Imo if you wish to go down the heavy braid route then you should fish barbless which gives the fish a fighting chance to shed the hook in the event of a break....But that of course opens a whole other can of worms.

 

[alan whittington]

Yes i did Laurie that is why i tried to be tactful when asking questions for i didnt mean to offend either an experienced barbel angler or an inexperienced one and i apologise to you if i did so,your points are noted and i thank you for them and understand the reasoning behind them,i just cant agree with them for i have doubts,itcant be any more damaged being played on 8lb line and rested and returned correctly than by being bullied out on heavy braid because he may be strong but must be in shock,we are probably both right and the fish are stronger than we imagine,lets hope that the fish we catch 'live long and prosper' though i feel they have more than us catching them to worry about.

 

[Neneman Nick]

Please excuse my ignorance bob but does steve pope fish with a hook length or straight through with the braid ???

 

[johnnyfby]

nick, on days and ways, he fishes straight through.

 

[alan whittington]

When starting this off i must confess to wondering as to where barbel fishing is heading and low and behold my fears are founded for when 'anglers' say that we should fish as heavy as possible for 'fish welfare',where does this end,and will we be reading in future about anglers using 100lb braid(or any other line) for barbel that have a maximum weight at present in the early twenties(exceptions rather than the norm as we all know),i still have serious sportingdoubts in the use of any line over 15lb and cannot condone to the idea that this is achieved in the 'fooling' of a barbel on such tackle,as they are not the most cautious of fishes.Having just read an article by Stef Horakin C.A.T. saying that barbel that he and his assosciates had caught having to be revived up to an hour due to low temps in the recent cold snap,what do we do stop barbel fishing in these conditions or do what we SHOULD be doing at all times,i.e. just ensuring that each fish caught is treated with the respect and care it deserves on whatever tackle it was captured on.One more thing although unhooking mats are a good thing they must still be used correctly as in warm weather(even in cold)for you could liken them to a hot pan unless wetted properly,which isnt stated often and for the inexperienced could mean dire consequences for the fish(i know the vast majority use mats correctly).

Understanding that these are my views as an angler of long standing,i appreciate the other view but it is a quite recent change(to me anyway) and maybe we need to change from a 'sport' to another title if the fish we angle for are to be given little chance of escape and anyperson with a rod and 25lb braid COULD fluke a barbelwith no fish playing knowledge whatsoever,tragic in my mind/forum/smilies/crying_smiley.gif

 

[EC]

Alan a few questions.

What is wrong with any angler, fishing for any species,using the maximum strength line they can get away with, in order to get the fish in more quickly and avoid the fish being 'played' for a serious long length of time?

Why 15lb maximum and not 14lb or 16lb?

And why would it be tragic that someone might fluke a barbel? Isn't that part of the fun of fishing that one day you catch the unexpected?

 

[Sean Meeghan]

I think we're getting a little confused here! The 2 issues seem to me to be what is an acceptable (sporting) way of taking a fish and what is the correct strength of braid to use if an angler chosses to do so. These are entirely separate issues unless an angler deliberately chooses to use an unsafe method.

The accepted practice in using braid as a main line is to err on the heavy side and choose on diameter rather than breaking strain. The idea is to take advantage of the relative thiness of the braid without compromising on strength and reliability. Braid diameters are difficult to define accurately do to their softness and a high degree of ovality in their cross section, but 20 to 30lb braid is roughly the same diameter as 6 to 8lb mono. The reason forusing these heavy breaking strainsis a combination of ease of handling, the abrasion resistance and braid's intolerance ofpoorly tied knots.

I don't use braid as a main line for barbel, but I know a few well respected anglers who do. In conversation they have always been able to justify their use of braid in a manner that makes sense to me. Their reasons include low stretch, high strength/diameter, reliability, low resistance to current, etc. In all cases the angler was using braid in cunjunction with rods that fall within the norm for barbel fishing so they were not able to exert any more pressure on a fish than they would if they were using mono.

Now to the issue of what is sporting! The difficulty here is that it is a subjective definition, but we can make judgements based on a collective view. The current general view on what is sporting from a tackle view point in barbel angling is to err on the heavy side. This means that rods of 1.5lb to 2lb test curve and 10lb line are the norm. Individuals may choose to use takle that is heavier or lighter than this based on their own judgement of the hazards in the water that they are fishing, their ability to land the fish in a reasonable time and their own skill. The over-riding factor when making judgements is the welfare of the fish, not an angler's view of an acceptable line breaking strain or the power of the rod.

Alan, your comments are verging on the ridiculous definition of what is sporting that so divided trout fishing for many years and which resulted in the banning of many techniques from certain rivers on the grounds that they were unsporting. It's the angler not the tackle that is sporting.

I'm puzzled by your comment on the article by Stef Horak which I must admit I haven't read. It's very unusual to have to nurse barbel in cold winter conditions as they usually don't fight as hard as they do in summer and they therefore require less recovery time. I've caught barbel in water temps as low as 3.8C and they have required very little recovery time. Again, you're making a judgement based on your own preconceived ideas rather than using what is generally accepted.

You do of course have very right to express your ideas and if you can convince enough people you'll change the definition of what is sporting and what is not.

 

[Sean Meeghan]

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