Canoes and access again!

[chrissh]

So, are you saying that a canoe-hire company who habitually and regularly rent canoes to punters, in the full knowledge that the punters are about to trespass using that canoe - are vicariously liable for the trespass offences committed?

They probably have some sort of disclaimer like a car hire companies … all offences and fines are liable to the drive of that vehicle

 

[dorsetandchub]

Geoff,

I'll use my ink to thank you as that was exactly my next question.

Sound like I'm soliciting free legal advice but haven't found too many canoeists on my garden pond!!

Take care.

 

[mikench]

So, are you saying that a canoe-hire company who habitually and regularly rent canoes to punters, in the full knowledge that the punters are about to trespass using that canoe - are vicariously liable for the trespass offences committed?

No I am not as vicarious liability attaches to employers. The renters of the canoes are customers not employees . This principle is a complicated one and not one for a fishing forum. It is as complicated as fishing

Trespass is a civil offence as stated and not criminal. If a canoeist damaged your line or rod on a stretch of river that you owned, you could sue in trespass. If the canoeist was an employee of the canoe hire company you can sue the company. Indeed you would as in all likelihood they would have the money and not the employee!

 

[geoffmaynard]

No I am not as vicarious liability attaches to employers. The renters of the canoes are customers not employees . This principle is a complicated one and not one for a fishing forum. It is as complicated as fishing

Well, we only have a fishing forum to discuss it on. So, how about when a company uses it's staff as 'guides' to accompany a party of customers through a stretch with no PRN? Are they vicariously liable then? In theory of course, nobody is asking you to put your head on a block.

 

[mikench]

In theory yes! Again in theory one can sue for trespass even if there is no damage. However in practice one risks facing nominal damages and paying costs so such actions are not brought. Someone walking across a farmers field is trespassing in tort but if there is no damage suing is pointless. If however he tramples down crops, allows livestock to escape and such like then an action may be more realistic.

Rights of way by prescription or by time immemorial can complicate matters. This is not an area I practice in and my knowledge is of the academic variety!

 

[dorsetandchub]

Thanks chaps. What had me wondering was that, when fishing on the Wye, I noticed parties of people (in what gave me the feeling were rented canoes) some of whom were properly kitted out and one particular party, including about twenty kids of varying ages with not a single hard hat between them.

I finished the day thinking the canoe rental sector to be as law abiding as Dodge City, circa 1885!!

Thanks again, much appreciated- and, knowing lawyers, the invoice is in the mail, yes??

 

[sagalout]

This is coming to a river near you! Clickety click

 

[thecrow]

I cant help but think that if the Wye was as prolific a Salmon river as it was with the associated income for riparian owners that this problem would be a lot nearer being sorted than ever it will for us common course fishers.

 

[sagalout]

I think I might be right in saying (let me check with the missus, no what ever I am going to say is wrong) below Hereford the Wye is navigable hence the masses of canoes.

 

[thecrow]

I believe that's correct but there are stretches where there is no PRN that are routinely paddled by people that have hired canoes, if what I have seen below Hereford lots of them worse for wear with drink.

 

[maggot_dangler]

This is coming to a river near you! Clickety click

small remote control subs with sharp pointy things that can poke up come to mind hiss hiss hissssssss aye up we appear to be sinking .

PG ...

 

[geoffmaynard]

I think I might be right in saying (let me check with the missus, no what ever I am going to say is wrong) below Hereford the Wye is navigable hence the masses of canoes.

They have a lot more that that. They have all the river from Hay downstream to use. The PRN goes from the Welsh border down to the sea.