Carp Deaths

[Frank "Chubber" Curtis]

Good question Woody. Some years back I had a large garden pond that held goldfish, orfe, tench and three mirror carp. One summer night there was a hell of a thunder storm and the next morning the carp were floating belly up but all the other fish were okay and swimming about as usual.
Could it be that there's something about storms that has an adverse affect on carp?

 

[Baz]

Woody,
should there have been an (o after thunderstorms? (o
I got home at 4.30 p.m. sorry I meant to say 4.30.am this morning to help sort any further problems out. Not bad for a c..p hater is it?(o
It looks like those who were shouting out of their arseholes during the last thunderstorms were wrong yet again (as usual) doesn't it

The deaths have been occuring for some months now. But it is not until this weekend, that it has come to light.

What I would like to know is, why during the recent foot and mouth outbreak, farms and land that were not even infected were out of bounds.

Yet here we have a situation where fish stocks (carp only)are dyeing off.
I would have thought that Defra or in the least the E.A. would have had powers to do something more substantial. (not letting people fish)

 

[Herr General Swordsy]

Thunder storms are deadly for garden ponds, the heavy charged atmospheric conditions do seem to exagerate any water quality problems.

 

[Robert Woods 1]

Baz,
I have been very concerned the past few weeks regarding carp deaths from waters linked to River Weaver. I have rescently went back to old river after first fishing it in 60's for roach & gudgeon. This could be a disaster for NW carp as the lake concerned is connected to Weaver, then Trent & Mersey canal and to Bridgy.

Bob.

 

[Baz]

Very true Bob. all we can do is to wait for the results as Woody has said.
I'll post as soon as I hear anything definate.

You have mail Bob.

 

[Phil Hackett 2]

1.
Baz asked a question very early in this post about other dieseases other than SVC

I make no apoligies for publishing and referencing what follows.

Spring viremia of carp (SVC) is a contagious and potentially fatal viral disease affecting fish. As its name implies, SVC may be seen in carp in the spring time. However, SVC may also be seen in other seasons (especially in the fall) and in other fish species including goldfish and the European wells catfish. Until recently, SVC had only been reported in Europe and the Middle East. The first cases of SVC reported in the United States were in Spring 2002 in cultivated ornamental common carp (koi) and wild common carp. The number of North American fish species susceptible to SVC is not yet known.

Signs of SVC in Fish
The first signs of SVC disease in fish may be a change in behavior. The diseased fish may breathe and move more slowly, form groups in slow?flowing water near the pond bank, and lie on their side at the pond bottom. On the outside of a fish with SVC, the skin and gills may appear dark red, the eyes may bulge outward, the belly may be swollen, and bloody mucus may hang from the vent. On the inside of a fish with SVC, a lot of fluid may be in the belly cavity and internal organs, blood in the swim bladder, and reddening and swelling of the gut. However, not all fish showing these signs necessarily have SVC, as these same signs may also be seen in many other diseases. Those fish that don't die from SVC may recover and appear healthy, but these fish actually may remain infected with the SVC virus and continue to shed and spread the virus to other fish. Because the SVC virus may remain hidden in infected fish, the disease is difficult to eliminate from a site. Diagnosis of the SVC virus in fish can be confirmed through virus isolation and other sophisticated diagnostic tests done by an approved laboratory.

SVC Spread and Control
The spread of SVC may occur through contact with water contaminated with the infected fish's feces, urine, or mucus. The virus may be spread through contaminated equipment, fish parasites, predatory birds, and on the outside of an infected fish's eggs. Once SVC is established at a site, it may be difficult to eradicate because of virus?infected carrier fish. It may be necessary to destroy all aquatic life in a pond to eliminate the
disease from the site.
Although complete eradication is difficult, SVC can likely be controlled and contained within high?risk zones through surveillance and better management practices, including strict biosecurity procedures. People may transmit the virus with them from place to place on their clothing, footwear, equipment, etc, but the virus does not cause disease in humans. There has never been a single report of humans being infected with the SVC virus either from contact or from eating an infected fish.

SVC Prevention Information for Hobbyists
Hobbyists who actively transport and show their fish in organized competitive koi shows should only show their fish in English?style shows. In English?style shows, each participant's koi are kept in separate show tanks. From a disease transmission viewpoint, most aquatic animal health professionals recommend the English?style shows. Good biosecurity measures (e.g., avoidance or disinfection of any potentially infected, shared
equipment) while at a show is highly recommended and will also protect fish from infection by the highly contagious koi herpes virus and other communicable diseases.

 

[Phil Hackett 2]

2.
SVC Prevention Information for Anglers
Anglers should not transfer fish or fish parts from one body of water to another, as this practice not only risks spreading the SVC virus and other disease?causing agents, but also risks spreading non?native fish and other aquatic nuisance species. Anglers should use only disease?free bait purchased from commercial producers. If a large number of dead or dying fish is observed in a natural body of water, anglers should contact the game and fish department of their State natural resources agency.

SVC Prevention Information for Producers
There are several recommendations for preventing SVC from becoming established on commercial farms. Using a source of water that is free from disease such as a spring or well is necessary, especially in an area where the disease is known to exist. Other on?farm measures include disinfection of eggs by iodophore treatment, regular physical and chemical disinfection of ponds, disinfection of equipment, and proper disposal of dead fish. Also, new fish being brought onto farms should be purchased from a source known to be free of SVC. Bringing new fish, especially cyprinids including carp, koi, and goldfish, onto a fish farm should be undertaken only with great caution.
Currently, no vaccine for SVC is commercially available in the United States. SVC is an Office International des Epizooties (OIE) List B, reportable disease, and the United States Department of Agriculture is required to report any outbreaks to the OIE. If a producer suspects SVC, he or she should contact, as soon as possible, the State veterinarian or the local Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service?s Veterinary Services office.
References
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/pubs/fsheet_faq_notice/fs_ahcarp.html

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/VM/VM11300.pdf

 

[Phil Hackett 2]

Should have pointed out earlier the second ref. Relates to Koi Herpes a disease that carp can get and is and has affected some water already in the UK. The last information I had was that it wasn?t a notifiable disease to the EA if water gets infected with it.
Given its contagiousness and its untreatable, astounds me!

The file is a pdf download and takes a few minutes.

 

[Baz]

Reports of more clubs closeing their waters are comeing in.
Up to date, this is still only a precautionary measure.

 

[alan strickland]

Rain from thunderstoms is heavy in nitrogen,something about the lightning burning the air around it and releasing it.
Somthing like 65% of the world`s plant food comes from lightning.

 

[Wolfman Woody]

Thunderstorms also cause massive oxygen depletion from water, typically lakes and ponds, and this affects the larger fish more. Carp being the first sufferers, but pike don't seem to suffer in quite the same way. That's why I asked about the thunderstorms.

Sounds serious though since so many waters are affected. What is their connection if it is a disease?

 

[Phil Hackett 2]

Infectious agent? thought to be responsible for carp deaths

Initial findings from a study into unexplained carp deaths suggest an unidentified virus or bacteria is involved.
Early lab tests, carried out by the Centre for Environment, Fisheries and Aquaculture Science (CEFAS), support the Environment Agency?s theory that Spring Carp Mortality Syndrome (SCMS) is sparked by an infectious agent.
Further tests are now planned, with in-roads into the mystery condition expected later this summer.
The Agency?s National Fisheries Laboratory Manager Sarah Chare said: ?Although in their early stages, the experiments being carried out on our behalf by CEFAS have taken us a step further in showing SCMS to be caused by an infectious agent. This is very important to the Agency because it reinforces the advice we give to carp fisheries to avoid the syndrome?s devastating impact.?
Unexplained large-scale carp mortalities, which occur every spring, have been recorded since the 1980s and have effected some of the country?s best-known carp fisheries.
The Environment Agency carried out a comprehensive study of SCMS in 1998 and 1999 that took more than 100 different fish kills into account. It concluded that an infectious agent was responsible for SCMS.
This was supported by a variety of evidence:
? The mortalities effected carp only.
? Fish showed consistent symptoms, there was a strong relationship between new introductions of carp and SCMS in the existing carp population.
? The pattern and spread of the deaths were consistent with an infectious disease.
Principal Fisheries Officer Phil Bolton, who carried out the initial study, said: ?The CEFAS findings are extremely important and support our initial conclusions. This comes as a reminder to carp fishery managers to protect their stocks by thinking very carefully before they introduce new fish to their waters.?
No evidence has so far been found from SCMS-style mortalities to suggest another cause for the deaths and the advice given by the Agency on carp diseases and mortalities has not changed in view of the latest findings.
Stocking of fish is still believed to be the main route for disease to enter a fishery and the utmost care should be taken when purchasing and stocking fish.
Careful disinfection of all equipment associated with fish movements is essential and responsible anglers should also consider disinfecting their equipment when moving between fisheries. Contaminated equipment, especially when damp, still represents a risk to fisheries. Drying it in full sunlight is very effective, as are the many iodine-based disinfectants.
Fishery owners should always report fish mortalities to the Environment Agency. As well as investigating possible pollution or disease, Agency officers can also provide advice on managing fisheries to prevent similar problems in the future.
Please note:
Anyone finding dead, dying or distressed fish in their waters should contact the Agency immediately. The emergency hotline is 0800 80 70 60.
Contact us...
The Agency has produced a number of booklets and leaflets, both nationally and regionally which may be of use to anglers, these are available by contacting:
General Enquiries Please contact your local Environment Agency office or call our General Enquiry Line: 0654 333 111
Rivercall: 0930 107 703
Fisheries Byelaws...
Fisheries Byelaws are now available on-line from the Environment Agency. Simply visit www.environment-agency.gov.uk and go to the Fisheries Homepage, or click on the North East section under Regional Information.

Reference
http://www.anglerstimes.co.uk/environmentalagency.htm

 

[Phil Hackett 2]

Jeff asks what are the connections if it?s a disease?

They?re multiple Jeff!

1) Water bird transmission
2) Angler transmission.
3) Water transferral transmission
4) Fish movement legal or illegal

1 Water birds, particularly the fish eaters move from water to water in the area on a half daily or less basis, carrying the vector with them, depositing it in another water, contaminating it. Highly probable in my view

2 Nets being the most obvious way this is transferred but other means as the SVC piece points out. Many anglers who fish the Weaver (river) then move on to the stillwaters that are open for the close season. This could have given a point source. As a for instance, the season shut on a Monday last March, an angler could have packed up on the river at 12 midnight (totally unaware of the impending doom to hit the river in June) moved on to a Stillwater for the rest of the week. On re-establishing on that water his pitch, got his wet sling, unhooking mat and net out and through it transferred it to that water. Possible but in my view not the most likely way its been transmitted.

3 Many of the pools that I?ve heard of having deaths occur are connected to the Weaver and the Trent and Mersey Canal/wider system by inlet and outlet streams once the vector is in the watercourse, it free to infect the fish in it. Some of the pools themselves are interconnected by streams. This is the most likely method of transfer in my opinion.

4 This method (illegal transfer of fish) is still happening in Cheshire on a pretty regular basis by ****heasds. Some clubs have this year moved fish (carp) with section 30 to new waters to increase stocks. I?ve no doubts that many commercials have had many new stockings of carp also.

All in all Jeff, it's a right pig's ear for all the anglers who fish this regions stillwters, irespective of what species they fish for.

 

[Gary Knowles 2]

is it just carp being affected ?

 

[Baz]

Up to now yes.

 

[Baz]

Just had one angler on the phone saying he has pictures of these now dead fish which he has caught in the past. Some up to 40lb.
Others are lyeing lethargically in the margins.

 

[alan strickland]

How are those expencive carp threy stocked at sandiway doing baz?
It will be a big kick in the teeth for the club if we lost them.

 

[Phil Hackett 2]

Ok guys I?ve spent the last two hours researching Fish Disease on the net. Oh the bloody joys of being a researcher!!!!!

But just for you lot, I?ve found you a Tutorial on most fish virus families.

Some might find it a bit hard going, as you need some knowledge of biology and genetics. Don?t concern yourself that you don?t understand some of the words used (written by scientists and they do like to come up with unpronounceable words and terminology :0)) you?ll get the gist of it if you stick with it. Plenty of pictures and diagrams in it. Its 79 pages long and a pdf file that does take a little time to download if like me you?re running on std. telephone line.

The link is http://www.eu-crlfish.org/Tutorials/VHSV tutorial.pdf

Fishingmagic the only wbesite with informed and intelligent posting including tutorials!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Baz]

Our waters are not affected Alan. Neither are most other clubs. As I said it is only a precaution until we have more info.

 

[Baz]

Oh, a;most forgot Alan. They are piling the weight on.