Carp with no lips!

[bennygesserit]

Do you think rig tubing over the hooklength would help especially if that goes all the way to the hook eye.

---------- Post added at 21:09 ---------- Previous post was at 21:07 ----------

i'd see this as something that might help with self hooking methods especially if I akso fish a bomb and use a pva bag.

 

[bennygesserit]

Ok I made some hook links this morning and put some rig tubing on , the rig seems really stiff ( ooooer missus ) to me it looks like it won't self hook at all.

So is it silk shock or maybe pre tied carp hook links which all seem to be braid ( banned most places I fish ) any ideas appreciated - cheers.

 

[bennygesserit]

Hi I'm struggling with this anyone know the right product ?

 

[sam vimes]

Benny,
rig tubing, of any kind I've encountered, really isn't meant for covering hooklinks. However, stiff hooklinks, in certain configurations, can be very effective at times. A better solution, on the waters that allow braid hooklinks at least, would be to use a coated braid hooklink such as Fox Camotex or a multitude of similar products from alternative brands. The snag is that such products generally have much higher breaking strains than you are likely to want. The lightest equivalent product is probably in the Gardner Target range.

Unfortunately, I rather suspect you are looking for a non-existant solution to a problem that many don't even consider. I know you've been a little miffed at those that run down commercials (I don't blame you btw), but this is the kind of valid reason some have for avoiding them like the plague. I think you have limited realistic options. Use old fashioned mono (Maxima etc) rather than hi-tec, fine diameter stuff. Abandon fishing that type of venue, or accept that there's a risk of some damage every time you hook a fish.

 

[bennygesserit]

Cheers Sam , really appreciate it I was going round in a circle on google.
Braid isn't allowed , how do you avoid cutting the lips of larger the fish you catch , is it via braid alone or a combination of other factors aswell.

I did put hollow elastic on the end of a mono hooklink it seemed quite supple but looked a bit clunky.

 

[sam vimes]

Cheers Sam , really appreciate it I was going round in a circle on google.
Braid isn't allowed , how do you avoid cutting the lips of larger the fish you catch , is it via braid alone or a combination of other factors aswell.

I did put hollow elastic on the end of a mono hooklink it seemed quite supple but looked a bit clunky.

I can't say I've ever seen a proper braid hooklink material cut a good chunk's lips. However, I'm generally not fishing match type commercials, where the fish tend to be softer mouthed, with such gear. Mud/Clay bottoms and predominantly soft baits tend to lead to soft mothed fish until they've been hooked again and again. By that time, they tend to have very hard, and sometimes quite damaged, mouths.

I doubt that many would even think to do this, but perhaps you could use a couple of inches of fine shrink tube or very fine silicone tubing pushed over the eye of your hook and extending an inche or two up your hooklink? Might be worth a try. Used right it may even give you the "kicker" effect that's quite prevalent in the big carp scene.

 

[bennygesserit]

I can't say I've ever seen a proper braid hooklink material cut a good chunk's lips. However, I'm generally not fishing match type commercials, where the fish tend to be softer mouthed, with such gear. Mud/Clay bottoms and predominantly soft baits tend to lead to soft mothed fish until they've been hooked again and again. By that time, they tend to have very hard, and sometimes quite damaged, mouths.

I doubt that many would even think to do this, but perhaps you could use a couple of inches of fine shrink tube or very fine silicone tubing pushed over the eye of your hook and extending an inche or two up your hooklink? Might be worth a try. Used right it may even give you the "kicker" effect that's quite prevalent in the big carp scene.

Aaah top man , thats what I spent an hour trying in the garden this morning putting a couple of inches of protection over the eye of the hook with the rest going on the hooklink, ( switched to tying my own hooklinks).

Tried rig tubing , not supple enough , hollow elastic very supple but bright red ( might be an advantage ) , I have some fine silicone ( for pole floats ) I 'll try that next. The plan is also to fish a slightly longer hooklink.

i might also chat to the owner ( been chatting to the fishery manager ) to see what he thinks.

---------- Post added at 22:42 ---------- Previous post was at 22:09 ----------

Getting a bit obsessed by this now I have just read a forum where one guy uses flyline backing for all his hooklinks in an effort to prevent mouth damage - interesting.

 

[bennygesserit]

Benny,
rig tubing, of any kind I've encountered, really isn't meant for covering hooklinks. However, stiff hooklinks, in certain configurations, can be very effective at times. A better solution, on the waters that allow braid hooklinks at least, would be to use a coated braid hooklink such as Fox Camotex or a multitude of similar products from alternative brands. The snag is that such products generally have much higher breaking strains than you are likely to want. The lightest equivalent product is probably in the Gardner Target range.

Unfortunately, I rather suspect you are looking for a non-existant solution to a problem that many don't even consider. I know you've been a little miffed at those that run down commercials (I don't blame you btw), but this is the kind of valid reason some have for avoiding them like the plague. I think you have limited realistic options. Use old fashioned mono (Maxima etc) rather than hi-tec, fine diameter stuff. Abandon fishing that type of venue, or accept that there's a risk of some damage every time you hook a fish.

I understand I may have set myself unrealistic goals with this , however one thing added by the guy who runs my tackle shop - I am fishing the method in a safe but fixed manner i.e. A drennan grippa stop behind the feeder he suggested removing that might alleviate the problem as the feeder banging so close to the hook might be causing an issue.

Will see !

 

[Titus]

If you are determined to cover that first inch of braid use heat shrink, you can also put a very handy curve in it which makes it virtually anti eject and emulates safely the very popular but vicious bent hook rigs of the 90s.

 

[law]

Your trying to find a solution to a problem that doesnt exist mate.

 

[cg74]

Ok I made some hook links this morning and put some rig tubing on , the rig seems really stiff ( ooooer missus ) to me it looks like it won't self hook at all.

So is it silk shock or maybe pre tied carp hook links which all seem to be braid ( banned most places I fish ) any ideas appreciated - cheers.

I've always found and I'm not trying to demonize a type of fishery/management but fisheries that have bans on barbed hooks and braid line, do have a greater proportion of damaged fish....

I use a combi-rig (without any tubing etc for about 50-60% of all my carp fishing and can honestly say I've never landed a carp with mouth damage that has been beyond reasonable doubt been damaged by my braid link.

---------- Post added at 10:33 ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 ----------

I'll also add, I got given a whole heap of pre-tied braid hooklinks and most got turned into combi-rigs by simply tying them to a fluoro boom.

Maybe the lack of damage caused by my hooklinks is due to the short(ish) braid 'hinge' - normally 10-15mm.

 

[bennygesserit]

If you are determined to cover that first inch of braid use heat shrink, you can also put a very handy curve in it which makes it virtually anti eject and emulates safely the very popular but vicious bent hook rigs of the 90s.

I can't fish with braid its against the rules I am , mostly , using 4 inch pre tied hooklinks on a method feeder , using a soft feeder rod , the feeder is free running ( well as of today anyway which has mad an improvement ).

I must admit I thought mono would melt with the steam for the shrink tube but someone on Gofishing has assured me it won't so will give that a try.

---------- Post added at 20:26 ---------- Previous post was at 20:24 ----------

Your trying to find a solution to a problem that doesnt exist mate.

I'll be honest I don't understand what you mean , some carp I catch , on a commercial , are cut in the scissors plus the thread is about damage to carp's mouths on commercial fisheries.

 

[thecrow]

I can't fish with braid its against the rules I am , mostly , using 4 inch pre tied hooklinks on a method feeder , using a soft feeder rod , the feeder is free running ( well as of today anyway which has mad an improvement ).

I must admit I thought mono would melt with the steam for the shrink tube but someone on Gofishing has assured me it won't so will give that a try.[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added at 20:26 ---------- Previous post was at 20:24 ----------

[/COLOR]

I'll be honest I don't understand what you mean , some carp I catch , on a commercial , are cut in the scissors plus the thread is about damage to carp's mouths on commercial fisheries.

Any heat applied to mono will damage/weaken it, can I suggest that if you do this you test the hook lengths before using them, better to break on test than leaving a hook in a fish.

 

[bennygesserit]

Any heat applied to mono will damage/weaken it, can I suggest that if you do this you test the hook lengths before using them, better to break on test than leaving a hook in a fish.

i must admit that was my thought too , Having had two pre tied hooklinks fail on me I have now resolved to make my own , except for size 18s etc

 

[Philip]

Benny I think your over worrying. Angling is about hooking fish so while of course we try to lessen the impact I think maybe your going too far ? You seem to be a thinking type of guy so I am sure you do all the right things anyway and care for your catch so I would just carry on and accept that some fish will suffer a little bit.

Regarding the tube over the hook eye…I have not read the whole thread so not sure if anyone has already mentioned it but you might want to try and dig some info on the Jim Gibbinson Line aligner …basically it’s a bit of tubing over the eye of the hook, extending the hook shank maybe a centimeter or two. The hooklink then exists a hole made in the front of the tubing (front being point side) a couple of millimeters from the top. The idea is that it helps the hook to turn /kick over and find a hookhold. Basically for braid it creates a even more pronounced knotless knot effect. I don’t think it makes that much difference with mono which being stiffer generally sits at an angle anyway when using the knotless knot.

Jim Gibbinson also wrote that he felt it led to better hookholds. I did use it a few times in the past and although I had my doubts I have to say generally the hookholds I had with it where very good although this may just has been my perception….actually I have been losing a few fish at a lake recently…I might give it a try again.

 

[squibbles]

Hi


I only started fishing 6 weeks ago - after reading the posts on the aforementioned topic I am perplexed. I would be distraught if I caused a fish harm due to my inexperience, questions:-

Playing a fish could somebody please advise the saftest way to do this
Feeder rod - what is the ideal oz quiver tip to use
I have a carp rod, planning on a overnighter when I have more experince, test curve 2.75lbs with 15lbs line (lake minimum) free running/line setup surely this setup most be safe, following lake rules!
I have a large landing net and unhooking mat - do I need any other essentials

 

[bennygesserit]

Welcome to the forum Squibbles, I think you have to keep a sense of proportion and not be so precious about fish welfare that it ruins your fishing, I think a lot of anglers have a deep affinity with the natural world and angling , often , is a positive force.

That said it pays to be open minded - it improves your fishing and your handling of fish , for instance Pike , strangely , are quite a vulnerable fish , out of the water , and some of the traditional methods can result in deeper hooking requiring expertise to sort. As a result I have stopped spinning down the canal, I would say pike are the only fish to be cautious about.

Do some reading , understand the elements of fish care for larger fish , anything under 15 can be handled in the net between your knees ( in my opinion ) and above all enjoy your fishing.

I have pushed this thread on because I am interested in the one particular point secure in the knowledge that I will carry on enjoying my hobby.

 

[squibbles]

Thank you - I have begun some reading, I will continue enjoying my hobby

 

[chub_on_the_block]

15Ibs line as a lake minimum..wow. I have hardly ever used main line over about 8Ib in 40 years of fishing (never mind six weeks). It depends what rod you are using (something with a 2.75Ib TC is probably about right) and the size of fish you expect to catch. It is a very different way to start fishing than the way it was done when I started in the 1970s.

As for feeder rod quivertips., if on a fast river with heavy current probably something around 2oz+ or more to match the heavy feeder could be needed. On a lake though, something nearer 1oz might be more appropriate.

As for other essentials - a disgorger (and knowledge of how to use it) and/or forceps.

 

[hyperdrive]

For your overnighter I would suggest you go with someone who has a bit of experience.
You will of course need, stove, kettle, tea bags, water, milk, (sugar if required) fry pan, bacon, sausages and bread and brown sauce, no overnighter would be complete without them....