CCTV

[Cliff Hatton (A.C.A member)]

Rob, Trev...you're either having a 'wind-up' or, as I suspect, you've absolutely lost the plot. TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION the fact that we don't know each other and that this medium struggles to convey the true sentiment behind one's comments, I ask you your ages. I MIGHT WELL BE WRONG but your views suggest no more than 30. Let's take it from there...this could be interesting.

 

[Michael Howson]

I have been visiting Denmark on family trips two or three times a year for twelve years or so and have fished rivers and lakes around Silkeborg during this period at several different times of the year and have yet to witness as much as a hook-packet or an inch of discarded line or cig-packets food items or any other rubbish. You can drive for mile after mile through rural areas and not see any fly-tipped material or maybe the odd plastic bag thats managed to blow away. Why our culture should be so different to theirs i have no idea because come to think of it i cant remember the last time i saw a policeman. I will also wager that there isnt a fraction of the surveilance on people that we endure. Answers to this cocundrum on a postcard please.

 

[Cliff Hatton (A.C.A member)]

Michael: Great contribution. Last year, I walked several miles along the Upper Rhein in Switzerland, making a special point of 'clocking' the litter situation....there isn't one! I can honestly say I didn't see so much as a fag butt...nothing! This standard is the norm throughout Switzerland, Austria and most of Germany - you don't see so much as a sweet wrapper. I spent this afternoon plugging a local pit...at some time during my 4 hours fishing, some toe-rag dumped in the bushes by the road a heap of old kitchen cabinets and an old vacuum cleaner. Were it in my power, I'd lock the culprit up for 20 years. NONETHELESS...I'd fight CCTV all the way! It's incredible how resigned to this infringement of our privacy so many people are. One day - quite soon - the thrill of pushing through the rhodedendrons on a moon-lit night to poach an estate-lake will be a thing of the past..lost in folk-lore and 'old' Hutchinson /Yates books; you'll get one leg over the ivied, red-brick perimeter wall and have some cyber-bailiff tell you to 'WITHDRAW!' Where's the fun in that? Mind you...the cameras DO protect you against hoodies...good grief!

 

[trev matthews]

"Those who argue that surveillance is necessary to curb the antics of hooligans and other criminals have lost the plot entirely". Cameras wont curb any antics but they are a deterrant. In order to put the little darlings in jail first they must be caught and proof given in a court of law. CCTV camera footage is proof. I think I lost my particular plot a long time ago. But I still enjoy fishing cos the voices in my head tell me I have to.

 

[trev matthews]

what has age got to do with it ? Growing old is inevitable, growing up is a matter of personal choice. Im a young 42 I know cos me mum writes it in my clothes for me lol.

 

[Michael Howson]

Whats age got to do with it?

Quite A lot Trev. We are now well inside the second and third generation of "people" who have brought their children up to adopt the same standards as themselves hence the situation we find ourselves. a distinct lack of discipline and a coudnt care less attitute to the environment and society in general has left us in this unenviable position.

 

[trev matthews]

Micheal I think youve missed my point. I was asking Cliff what has age ie being over 30 got to do with the fact that I condone CCTV cameras. I actually totally agree with you regarding standards that some parents have brought their children up to believe in, I work in a large secondary school and some of our little darlings are exactly the same as their parents. However there are a very large percentage of teenage children who just want to get on in life and study and work hard. Hoody gangs are in a minority, but seem to get all the media attention. Who is to blame the parents for not teaching better values or the owners of fisheries who want to protect their investments. I would fish at a venue with cameras, if youre not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about, just the same as if you drive past a speed camera below the speed limit

 

[Phil Hackett The common Boastful Expert :-)]

Who watches the watchers?
And what are the watchers using the innocent information for?

The recent Information Commissioner?s report (not a man of the raving loony left persuasion) stated we are ?sleepwalking into a surveillance society and at anyone time in an 8 hour working day are being observed by surveillance systems 250 times.?

 

[David Barber]

I agree phill I have these concerns as well.

Coming from little old New Zealand where there is relatively little need for such a high amount of video surveillance I found coming to The UK and living in London quite a shock.

With such an abundance of cameras already set up and the advances of technology ( such as retina and face scans to detect identity ) things are only going to get worse. Firstly I'm sure in this corrupt world where enough money can buy access to all kind of recorded information, I am more than a little concerned.

I enjoy my basic human rights and the idea of cameras looking at me almost 24/7, AND barking orders at me; 'Don't Park There', 'Pick up your rubbish!', 'Don't piss there', 'Move away from that door!', ?refrain from public affection? in my mind seems to make me feel a little boxed in and to be honest a little anxious about what is going to happen in the future. In this society which seems to be a tightening noose of control are Fictional Movies which predict very extreme versions of this so far off?

There?s to sides of the coin to this. Peace of mind in the aspect that there will be ?more crime prevention? but peace of mind of feeling easy about going about your day to day business, I think not.

You may as well get the chip installed in your head or get the bar code Tattoo done now! lol

I know I am comparatively young, (and a little over the top) but I think there's a point where you have to draw the line and I think this is about it...

 

[Cliff Hatton (A.C.A member)]

Trev!....Trev.....your oft-repeated chant that 'If you're doing nothing wrong, you've got nothing to worry about' is SO short-sighted - and very dangerous. It's exactly what the powers-that-be want to hear! Consider this, Trev....Which is the best world? One in which the people stick rigidly to the law for fear of detection and punishment? Or one where people stick rigidly to the law because they instinctively know that it's the decent thing to do? As I keep saying (FM passim) we need to really tighten-up the system we already have; this way, people have the ability to break the law but a) will have to live with their conscience b)will effin' well pay the price if they're caught...20 years for burglary, phone/wallet/car theft;
5 years hard labour for litter-bugs and 10 years hard labour for 'country lane dumpers. Again...if politicians REALLY wanted to create a decent society, they'd bring in similar measures tomorrow - but they don't! Why? There is a number of good theories, but I believe the 'keep 'em frightened and distracted' one is pretty good. Another might be related to the number of high-society, legal eagles who make a fortune out of 'our' MISfortune.

 

[trev matthews]

Cliff I agree that we need to tighten up the laws we already have and have harsher punishments but it wont do any harm if there are a few cameras about. I have CCTV at my school because the government says we have to and for the most part we dont really need them, however they are a deterrent to the naughtier element of our school society, only three cases of bullying this year at my school, if it wasnt for the cameras it would be so much higher.

 

[Phil Hackett The common Boastful Expert :-)]

I?ve never had a conversation with any teacher, and I know plenty, who have admitted that bullying happens in their school.

And to some degree therein lies the problem to bullying, schools denial that it?s happening.

 

[trev matthews]

I admitted it happens because im not a teacher Phil.And yes you are right, if more adults in our society took responsibility and told the truth then we wouldnt be in the mess that Cliff is talking about. Time to stand up and be counted. IM SPARTACUS

 

[Peter Bishop]

Cliff, are you trying to be the new John Ledger? There was, and will be only be one...
People come on this site with lots of diverse opinions but they don't deserve to be told they have 'lost the plot' because you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about CCTV.
You need to chill a bit mate; I recall one of your last last rants broke the law on homophobia and got deleted.
While I don't fancy the idea at fisheries, there is no doubt our city centres are much safer for it.

 

[Cliff Hatton (A.C.A member)]

Pete. Nothing was deleted...it was ME who requested its removal.