Concessionary Licences.
- Thread starter cg74
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Lord Paul of Sheffield
Well-known member
Should there be consessions for those on a low income but working , if they are not a junior, pensioner or disabled?
Say a person working full time for a low paid job - is it fair to charge him full membership? It's all relative they say
Say a person working full time for a low paid job - is it fair to charge him full membership? It's all relative they say
Just leave my relatives out of this - why dya think I go fishing in the first place?!
mg:Bob Hornegold
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Lordy,
I realise you are playing Devils Advocate, but I can't see how you can alter the status quo ?
Would you means test the low paid and would they want that ?
At least the OAPs, Juniors and disabled are a known entirety and in my opinion entitled to the concession.
Of course there are OAPs that clearly don't need the state pension, but they paid into N.I. and tax like every one else and are entitled to it, as of course they are entitled to the concessions !!
Bob
thecrow
Well-known member
Should an OAP or disabled angler pay the full membership price if they cannot access all of the water that other members can?
I think a question that needs asking is why do clubs offer concessions to OAPs and disabled anglers, if a club is run correctly as the one TBO described much earlier in this thread the concessions price that is paid is extra finance that full paying members will get the benefit of.
Yes there are those in the above group that don't need a concession (there are those on this forum that don't need their winter fuel payment and have previously posted on this forum about what tackle they will buy with it) it would be impossible to means test any angler applying for club membership with a concession, who would take on that role? they certainly would not be able to look into anglers finances and if clubs started to request bank statements along with applications -- well they are going to need some fantastic waters to get anglers to do that.
There is a very straight choice
here for those that don't think OAPs or disabled should get a concession in that they are not forced to join any club that offers them do they? if they do why don't they get on the clubs committee to change membership to no concessions?
sam vimes
Well-known member
Now you are the one making assumptions. The assumption being an income of £600 pw. There's an awful lot of working people out there that don't get anywhere near £600 pw. A fairly standard 20 hour contract with the likes of Lidl (not the worst payers in the world) still wouldn't break the £200 pw mark. Based on a 42 hour working week, £600 equates to an hourly rate of over £14, that's over twice the minimum wage, a yearly salary in excess of £30000. £10ph isn't a terrible wage, that only gives a pre-tax £420pw.
My own current income doesn't exceed the state pension by a great deal. However, I'm actually better off, and happier, not doing any old job for the sake of it. Before anyone takes a pop, I receive no state benefits whatsoever, no jobseekers, no housing benefit, no council tax reduction, nothing. I even pay my own NI stamp. I know full well that there will be some pensioners struggling by on nothing more than the basic state pension. However, there are plenty that are an awful lot better off than that. There are plenty that are an awful lot better off than many people in full time employment.
As I said before, concessions for OAPs are a laudable proposition. However, no matter how many expect them to apply in the future, or will feel aggrieved if they cease before they get to benefit of them, it's a realistic prospect that they won't be around forever (or the clubs may not). People are invoking a sense of fair play, what can be fairer than everyone paying the same for the same thing? Nobody expects a syndicate to have discount rates, but, realistically, a syndicate is simply a smaller, more exclusive club (without the formality of committees and the like). If clubs were state run, or state subsidised, institutions, things may be different. However, clubs can't be equated to bus passes, leisure centres and the like (the rod licence can though, it's state run). I'm not aware of shops giving OAPs a routine 10% discount over and above those available to anyone. Everyone pays the same, yet no one thinks that there's anything strange in that. Outside of the "it's always been that way" argument, why on earth should a club be any different?
terry m
Well-known member
Clearly an emotive subject, perhaps understandably.
Hitherto I have not actually commented on reductions for OAPs and Disabled etc. Personally I have no issue with that as long as the organisation can afford it.
We do have an aging society (I have not issue with that phrase) and if we care to be honest with ourselves that is even more evident in the angling community. So raw numbers say that as the group of people getting older move in the retirement bracket, the projected income for clubs is going to drop, in some cases potentially a significant drop.
Frame that up against increasing (generally) rents sought by the riparian owners (looking to offset other business challenges and costs), and especially from a Stillwater perspective, the growth of syndicates who are prepared to pay (and subsequently charge), very high prices for the right waters, and very soon you realise that projected funding may well be insufficient.
So, the ultimate choice may be a. Remove concessions b. Reduce concessions c. Lose the waters. Lose enough waters and the club no longer remains viable.
Pay your money and make your choice.
Hitherto I have not actually commented on reductions for OAPs and Disabled etc. Personally I have no issue with that as long as the organisation can afford it.
We do have an aging society (I have not issue with that phrase) and if we care to be honest with ourselves that is even more evident in the angling community. So raw numbers say that as the group of people getting older move in the retirement bracket, the projected income for clubs is going to drop, in some cases potentially a significant drop.
Frame that up against increasing (generally) rents sought by the riparian owners (looking to offset other business challenges and costs), and especially from a Stillwater perspective, the growth of syndicates who are prepared to pay (and subsequently charge), very high prices for the right waters, and very soon you realise that projected funding may well be insufficient.
So, the ultimate choice may be a. Remove concessions b. Reduce concessions c. Lose the waters. Lose enough waters and the club no longer remains viable.
Pay your money and make your choice.
Many OAP members of clubs have been full paying members of clubs for all their working/fishing lives. They may well be a member for 40 or 50 years.
Their membership monies over the years helped make the club what it is today.
Who as members of a club management are in a position to decide who
would or not on current income get a reduced membership or not.
Either offer it to all or none.
Their membership monies over the years helped make the club what it is today.
Who as members of a club management are in a position to decide who
would or not on current income get a reduced membership or not.
Either offer it to all or none.
thecrow
Well-known member
sam vimes
Well-known member
That's great, but not normal and not expected. Is it a real syndicate, co-operative group of anglers paying for a water, or is it in reality a limited number season ticket water (as so many "syndicates" actually seem to be)?
thecrow
Well-known member
Its a night syndicate on a club owned water, the club have no input into the syndicate other than to receive monies from it. There is a limit on numbers.
If the literal meaning of a syndicate is used then there will be very few and all the others that make any profit for the owner that is not all put back into the water are commercials.
---------- Post added at 15:38 ---------- Previous post was at 15:34 ----------
B and Q do that only on a Wednesday though.
terry m
Well-known member
Discount on syndicates is the exception rather than the rule.
I have been, and still am, a member of many angling syndicates with membership numbers ranging from about a dozen to over one hundred, not one of them has given discounts for pensioners. I am sure that the odd example exists.
B&Q is a clever ploy, a worthwhile discount but only on a specific day. If their marketing team were consulted here - and I am sure they were - then it will encourage a large segment of their customer base to attend the store on what was otherwise the quietest day of the week. This will assist in level loading staffing resource whilst making an attractive proposition to OAPs.
Perhaps discounts could be offered to members but they would only be allowed to fish Monday through Thursday when the waters are quieter?
I have been, and still am, a member of many angling syndicates with membership numbers ranging from about a dozen to over one hundred, not one of them has given discounts for pensioners. I am sure that the odd example exists.
B&Q is a clever ploy, a worthwhile discount but only on a specific day. If their marketing team were consulted here - and I am sure they were - then it will encourage a large segment of their customer base to attend the store on what was otherwise the quietest day of the week. This will assist in level loading staffing resource whilst making an attractive proposition to OAPs.
Perhaps discounts could be offered to members but they would only be allowed to fish Monday through Thursday when the waters are quieter?
nicepix
Well-known member
sam vimes
Well-known member
I fully accept that most of what are commonly called "syndicates" aren't really. Fortunately, I'm a member of two that are genuine syndicates. However, whilst you have an exception to the rule, it doesn't alter the point that the overwhelming majority of syndicates will not offer any concessions.
thecrow
Well-known member
It might but I wouldn't be in it at that unearthly time
Visit our local B &Q's for your 10% off on any Wednesday, arrive any time you fancy ,morning or afternoon. There is no waiting.
maverick 7
Well-known member
Turn the problem upside down and look at it again:
Having established that many clubs have a large number of 'older' members - perhaps the thing to do is use the total number of older members plus disabled members as being the 'core' of the club and calculate subs based on this (as per TBO's guidelines) - younger members (of 'working age') could apply for membership but pay a premium which could be 'worked-off' via work parties.
No concessions - no discounts - no problem?!
Maybe interesting to see how the sums worked out for some real-life clubs and current membership fees using the above model!
Having established that many clubs have a large number of 'older' members - perhaps the thing to do is use the total number of older members plus disabled members as being the 'core' of the club and calculate subs based on this (as per TBO's guidelines) - younger members (of 'working age') could apply for membership but pay a premium which could be 'worked-off' via work parties.
No concessions - no discounts - no problem?!
Maybe interesting to see how the sums worked out for some real-life clubs and current membership fees using the above model!