P
pedantopterix
Guest
Manic's right. It's in our interest to help and assist the RSPCA etc - rather than to extend all the usual barking mad conspiracy theories to them too.
cruelty to animals
- Thread starter The Pig
- Start date
P
pedantopterix
Guest
As for the law, you have to remember that laws have to be written down. If they cant be written in completley unequivocal language, they dont become laws - because they are unenforceable.
That's been part of the govt's problem with hunting with dogs.
If gardening becomes impossible, the law wont happen - simple!
That's been part of the govt's problem with hunting with dogs.
If gardening becomes impossible, the law wont happen - simple!
W
Wolfman Woody
Guest
Let's see what the draft says today, but I still won't be happy if it gives a charity organisation any legal powers to enter premises without Court orders.
Next thing we'll have the Council for Racial Equality breaking into people's homes seeing if they've got any Nazi memorobilia (or St George flags).
Next thing we'll have the Council for Racial Equality breaking into people's homes seeing if they've got any Nazi memorobilia (or St George flags).
The start of this thread was much funnier than the end.
I liked the bit about the "Weapons of Moth destruction"
I wonder if they will make nippon ant killer and raid wasp (bast*rd insect)sprays illegal, or mabe it will become an under the counter sale from your local garden centre ! Or what about slug pellet dealers hanging around or street corners selling them to any granny that comes along.
I liked the bit about the "Weapons of Moth destruction"
I wonder if they will make nippon ant killer and raid wasp (bast*rd insect)sprays illegal, or mabe it will become an under the counter sale from your local garden centre ! Or what about slug pellet dealers hanging around or street corners selling them to any granny that comes along.
W
Wolfman Woody
Guest
"The start of this thread was much funnier than the end"
What do you want? Did you pay for the privilege of reading these remarks? Buy a joke book if you want a larf. We can't be funny all the time y'know otherwise we'd be script writers earning a fortune out of TV. Cheeky devil comes on here wanting entertainment. Tsk, tsk.
What do you want? Did you pay for the privilege of reading these remarks? Buy a joke book if you want a larf. We can't be funny all the time y'know otherwise we'd be script writers earning a fortune out of TV. Cheeky devil comes on here wanting entertainment. Tsk, tsk.
"What do you want? Did you pay for the privilege of reading these remarks?"
Yes I know i'm greedy, but more entertainment for free is definitely what I want. I can have all the serious boredom I need, sat at my desk here at work. But reading these threads is more entertaining.
Yes I know i'm greedy, but more entertainment for free is definitely what I want. I can have all the serious boredom I need, sat at my desk here at work. But reading these threads is more entertaining.
S
Stuart Bullard 3
Guest
I think everyone is getting a bit ahead of themselves here. I heard this debate on Radio 5 yesterday and the new legislation sounds absolutely sound.
One of the areas debated was stopping the use of goldfish as a prize in tacky (pikey) fun fares. Something I think we should all welcome.
The lady from the RSPCA was generally positive with respect to angling, and did not even begin to entertain the idea of cruelty to worms, slugs etc......although she did caveat it by saying unless there was absolute scientific proof that invertebrates did suffer.
The central tennet is stopping cruelty to animals, and I for one welcome the new bill whole heartedly. If we, as anglers, argue against it then the wider public will just think we have something to hide........which we dont.
One of the areas debated was stopping the use of goldfish as a prize in tacky (pikey) fun fares. Something I think we should all welcome.
The lady from the RSPCA was generally positive with respect to angling, and did not even begin to entertain the idea of cruelty to worms, slugs etc......although she did caveat it by saying unless there was absolute scientific proof that invertebrates did suffer.
The central tennet is stopping cruelty to animals, and I for one welcome the new bill whole heartedly. If we, as anglers, argue against it then the wider public will just think we have something to hide........which we dont.
Trevor Sawyer
Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2003
- Messages
- 11
- Reaction score
- 0
It's OK lads, settle down...
News from the Independant this morning gets info straight from "the horses mouth":
The Junior Environment minister Ben Bradshaw (who was announcing the new Bill yesterday) says: "What the bill does NOT do - and I am one who regularly empties his slug trap - is to fine people for stepping on a snail or slug... It applies to VERTEBRATES only, NOT to animals in the wild and only to animals kept by people". I take it from this that the bit about the law being adapted to include insects was slotted in by some poor typesetter (or whatever they are called nowadays).
Either that, or somebody, somewhere, has made a great job of trying to cause a stir by stretching the limits of this story (can't think who would do such a thing?). As a person who is known to use insects/slugs as bait on occasions for chubbing, it certainly had me going there for a while ;-)
News from the Independant this morning gets info straight from "the horses mouth":
The Junior Environment minister Ben Bradshaw (who was announcing the new Bill yesterday) says: "What the bill does NOT do - and I am one who regularly empties his slug trap - is to fine people for stepping on a snail or slug... It applies to VERTEBRATES only, NOT to animals in the wild and only to animals kept by people". I take it from this that the bit about the law being adapted to include insects was slotted in by some poor typesetter (or whatever they are called nowadays).
Either that, or somebody, somewhere, has made a great job of trying to cause a stir by stretching the limits of this story (can't think who would do such a thing?). As a person who is known to use insects/slugs as bait on occasions for chubbing, it certainly had me going there for a while ;-)
J
John Lock
Guest
Good news Trevor, I can go back to being cruel to worms. Only this morning I found a huge lobworm in the garden and, in a fit of evil, I BURIED THE BASTARD ALIVE.
M
MaNick
Guest
on a lighter note?... can anyone give a good home to an old yorkshire terrier?....
RON CLAY!
RON CLAY!
Bryan Baron 2
Well-known member
Don't worry John they have a habit of crawling out of there graves by the light of the full moon. Just watch out for any of his mates with big pointy teeth.
J
John Lock
Guest
That worm better stay where he belongs. If he appears again then, tonight he sleeps with the fishes.
Trevor Sawyer
Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2003
- Messages
- 11
- Reaction score
- 0
Having read the document (see the following web-page http://www.official-documents.co.uk/document/cm62/6252/6252.pdf
It would appear that "invertebrates" are NOT included in the main part of the Bill (and that "larval" forms are also NOT included - so that counts out maggots etc).
But by my understanding (See subsection 53), it DOES however, allow for an adaptation of the Bill in the future so as to cover invertebrates if deemed necessary, so we will have to keep our eye on the progress of the Bill and see if anyone tries to push it further. At present there is not a problem with using maggots, slugs and other creepie-crawlies - It is NOT illegal.
Let's hope it stays that way... Perhaps once insects get banned, we will have to stop impaling cheesepaste, because it is made from something which COMES from an animal ;-)
http://www.official-documents.co.uk/document/cm62/6252/6252.pdfIt would appear that "invertebrates" are NOT included in the main part of the Bill (and that "larval" forms are also NOT included - so that counts out maggots etc).
But by my understanding (See subsection 53), it DOES however, allow for an adaptation of the Bill in the future so as to cover invertebrates if deemed necessary, so we will have to keep our eye on the progress of the Bill and see if anyone tries to push it further. At present there is not a problem with using maggots, slugs and other creepie-crawlies - It is NOT illegal.
Let's hope it stays that way... Perhaps once insects get banned, we will have to stop impaling cheesepaste, because it is made from something which COMES from an animal ;-)
W
Wolfman Woody
Guest
What about custaceans?
Or will I have to live with my crabs for the rest of my life?
Or will I have to live with my crabs for the rest of my life?
Trevor Sawyer
Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2003
- Messages
- 11
- Reaction score
- 0
Depends what you are doing with them Monkey...
If you are talking about crayfish as bait, then you definitely cannot use them. Our native White-Clawed crays are protected (and rightly so). The American Signal Crayfish are also illegal to use. This has nothing to do with the issues on this thread, but is because the EA has deemed that as the signals carry a virus which kills our (rare) native species, they should not be used, as transfer of the virus to waters containing the White-Clawed species is possible. It also stops anyone using a native cray as bait, believing it to be an Americam Signal cray. Any caring angler will understand why the EA did this and I for one applaud it. See, anglers ARE conservation-minded humans after all, Shock horror!!
If you are talking about crayfish as bait, then you definitely cannot use them. Our native White-Clawed crays are protected (and rightly so). The American Signal Crayfish are also illegal to use. This has nothing to do with the issues on this thread, but is because the EA has deemed that as the signals carry a virus which kills our (rare) native species, they should not be used, as transfer of the virus to waters containing the White-Clawed species is possible. It also stops anyone using a native cray as bait, believing it to be an Americam Signal cray. Any caring angler will understand why the EA did this and I for one applaud it. See, anglers ARE conservation-minded humans after all, Shock horror!!
J
John Lock
Guest
Trevor,
I too generally applaud the EA but there are a few contradictions that they should get around to sorting asap. First, Red Signal crayfish are proliferating and infecting the White Clawed ones - but you can't catch, kill or otherwise dispose of Red Signals without getting a permit (which is itself limited by time and venue). Second, the eel population of this country is only 1% of what it used to be (so we are told from many sources) yet commercial eel (elver) fishing licences are still issued and anglers are free to catch eels.
In summary, a crayfish epidemic which we are forbidden to do anything about. And an eel decline which we are not being encouraged to halt.
I'm off fishing now. If I catch an eel (unlikely) I'll return it asap. If I catch a Red Signal (very likely) I'll er! Er! Give it a stern finger-wagging lecture about overbreeding.
I too generally applaud the EA but there are a few contradictions that they should get around to sorting asap. First, Red Signal crayfish are proliferating and infecting the White Clawed ones - but you can't catch, kill or otherwise dispose of Red Signals without getting a permit (which is itself limited by time and venue). Second, the eel population of this country is only 1% of what it used to be (so we are told from many sources) yet commercial eel (elver) fishing licences are still issued and anglers are free to catch eels.
In summary, a crayfish epidemic which we are forbidden to do anything about. And an eel decline which we are not being encouraged to halt.
I'm off fishing now. If I catch an eel (unlikely) I'll return it asap. If I catch a Red Signal (very likely) I'll er! Er! Give it a stern finger-wagging lecture about overbreeding.
W
Wolfman Woody
Guest
It was a little joke Trevor. )
)
A
Ashe Hurst
Guest
Hows this for crulety.
on once the worse stretch of the cray for crap, litter and general neglect, now a prime angling and wildlife hot spot, the swans have again been the target of god knows what.
the youngster has vanished, the female is stressed as too is the male.
spent all week looking out, volunteers from amoungst my anglers and other locals.
then last night, two bin bags full of Dead Water foul and used Shot gun shells found behind a house near to the river.
police & RSPCA investigating.
now we know why whole families of wild foul are suddenly vanishing.
this has been a local concern for several years now, 6 young swans vanished in one evening last lear just on one stretch.
on once the worse stretch of the cray for crap, litter and general neglect, now a prime angling and wildlife hot spot, the swans have again been the target of god knows what.
the youngster has vanished, the female is stressed as too is the male.
spent all week looking out, volunteers from amoungst my anglers and other locals.
then last night, two bin bags full of Dead Water foul and used Shot gun shells found behind a house near to the river.
police & RSPCA investigating.
now we know why whole families of wild foul are suddenly vanishing.
this has been a local concern for several years now, 6 young swans vanished in one evening last lear just on one stretch.
A
Ashe Hurst
Guest
as for the RSPCA, im sure they good work in some areas, but when ever ive reported incidents of Swans being attacked by youths or other wildlife incidents they say to inform local police or get details of offenders myself.
as for my previouse thread, this incident has resulted in an investigation but with the countless incidents before this may have been avoided if an investigation had been carried out months ago.
even before the Bin Bags of birds were found people said it must be fishing hooks etc and that the birds must have been choking!!!
I described the behaviour to swan Rescue and they said its consistant with stress rather than swallowing hooks & line.
as for my previouse thread, this incident has resulted in an investigation but with the countless incidents before this may have been avoided if an investigation had been carried out months ago.
even before the Bin Bags of birds were found people said it must be fishing hooks etc and that the birds must have been choking!!!
I described the behaviour to swan Rescue and they said its consistant with stress rather than swallowing hooks & line.
R
Ron Troversial Clay
Guest
Crabs Cheeky Monkey?
You don't bathe enough.
Typical Pom......)
You don't bathe enough.
Typical Pom......
)