Does the EA license money help you catch mores fish?

wes79

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......

As for all that political shi+e, I've no desire to discuss that on a forum, even if we were allowed to, which we ain't!

With respect cg74 I'm not trying to start another argument here ok, I agree with you for why you might not want to discuss politics in this thread, however I can't help think that this is for the best part, the major issue, at the very least why we are even having to discuss this topic in the first place, EA are told what to do by the same entity as you and I currently are.
All to often I see people unable to disseminate otherwise important issues or debate sensible topics properly, purely because they cannot differentiate between voluntary and coercive elements to personal choices. The bitter contradiction that is currently opposing freedom of speech = rules on what you can and can't talk about on forums, this is just one example of pandering to government politicians, that is by itself an issue of politics for it comes from such thought.
Getting back to the thread


Regarding the EA license, if I don't wish to be "naughty" or commit a crime, then why should I need a license in the first place? :eek:mg:
 
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greenie62

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....All to often I see people unable to disseminate otherwise important issues or debate sensible topics properly, purely because they cannot differentiate between voluntary and coercive elements to personal choices. The bitter contradiction that is currently opposing freedom of speech = rules on what you can and can't talk about on forums, this is just one example of pandering to government politicians,....

Hi Wes,
Generally in agreement with your post - however it is not only the fault of the government of the day - it is also a problem with 'the Law' and Company ethics (or lack of them! :eek:). It can be very difficult to openly discuss e.g. current pollution incidents whilst they are in course of investigation, before the court, or in appeal.
Many companies actually use this to buy themselves time or even have cases thrown out arguing that the case has been prejudiced by adverse publicity in the press or on 'social media'. - As if we would do anything like that here! :rolleyes:
The EA argue that to reveal details of pollution incidents whilst sub judice could cause a pending prosecution to collapse and render them liable for costs and/or damages - a problem that FishLegal are aware of and are trying to find ways 'around'.
E.g. by implementing the 'public interest' defence - as allowed recently via the European Courts of Justice but being fought by DEFRA and our government in the current anti-european inteference prompted as a backlash to UKIP's tactics!
Ho-Humm - just as we thought being in Europe was useful!;):rolleyes:
 

bennygesserit

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cheers some very informative and interesting points of view.

I believe the EA contribute to the quality of our environment , whether its enough and whether they have enough clout or are efficient enough is a whole debate in itself, however I imagine a greater portion of the license spend finds its way into rivers and , judging by this forum at least, there are a declining number of anglers fishing our rivers.

For my part the EA have restocked parts of the "Curley Wyrley" canal that I sometimes fish and they delayed the movement of a grass carp on a commercial I use for a year and that was the year I caught it !
 

no-one in particular

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Weed cutting wasn't a rare instance it was done every year, I was told it was paid for out of licence tax money, I fail to see how that was improving fisheries, can you list all the good work they have done over the last 50 years as they haven't been in excistance for anywhere near that long.



I couldn't know who is exactly responsible for what Crow, fair enough; all I know is I can swim in my local bit of sea now, a few years ago it was unthinkable. My kids wont have to wear masks when they go to school as I did. Whole sale discharging of industrial waste into rivers is not a common practice anymore.. Many rivers are a lot cleaner than they once were. The regular checking of pollutant levels I don't think was common practice. I don't think so much checking and regulating of invasive plants and fishes was a common practice either, all good work in my opinion. And I am sure there is more I don't know about.

I was not suggesting weed cutting was a rare thing-I used to fish the Avon a lot in the 80's and 90's and weed cutting was a problem as was the whole sale pulling up of trees and straightening rivers and streams in my local area. However, I think a fair bit of learning has taken place and EA policy is changing. I am not sure of this, but I think progress is happening on this and many other scores. Flood management. I think it can only carry on improving

Weighing it up with my limited knowledge I would say the EA is a good thing. Lack of funding and a few mistakes are not enough reason for me to discount it as a waste of time and as some organization that's detrimental to angling.

I recognize they do not follow up half as much as they should and they make mistakes but, I am not sure giving it such a bad name is a good idea or prosecuting it whenever we can spot a legal flaw or whatever. The Gov might just be persuaded to scrap it altogether. And we would be a lot worse off.

I can only think of two big organization who try to help angling and what we catch, the EA and the Angling Trust.

Do you have better alternatives?
 
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thecrow

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I couldn't know who is exactly responsible for what Crow, fair enough; all I know is I can swim in my local bit of sea now, a few years ago it was unthinkable. My kids wont have to wear masks when they go to school as I did. Whole sale discharging of industrial waste into rivers is not a common practice anymore.. Many rivers are a lot cleaner than they once were. The regular checking of pollutant levels I don't think was common practice. I don't think so much checking and regulating of invasive plants and fishes was a common practice either, all good work in my opinion. And I am sure there is more I don't know about.

I was not suggesting weed cutting was a rare thing-I used to fish the Avon a lot in the 80's and 90's and weed cutting was a problem as was the whole sale pulling up of trees and straightening rivers and streams in my local area. However, I think a fair bit of learning has taken place and EA policy is changing. I am not sure of this, but I think progress is happening on this and many other scores. Flood management. I think it can only carry on improving

Weighing it up with my limited knowledge I would say the EA is a good thing. Lack of funding and a few mistakes are not enough reason for me to discount it as a waste of time and as some organization that's detrimental to angling.

I recognize they do not follow up half as much as they should and they make mistakes but, I am not sure giving it such a bad name is a good idea or prosecuting it whenever we can spot a legal flaw or whatever. The Gov might just be persuaded to scrap it altogether. And we would be a lot worse off.

I can only think of two big organization who try to help angling and what we catch, the EA and the Angling Trust.

Do you have better alternatives?



Are you sure about that? rivers may look a lot cleaner, what quantity of endocrine disrupters are in our rivers? they can be filtered out but guess what the water companies don't and the EA don't force them to. How do you know what polutents are discharged into rivers when the EA don't know?


That much learning has taken place that they think that dredging rivers on the somerset levels is the way to control floods even though they have been told by experts that its not the way to go, floods that have happened for hundreds of years in that area, learnt so much that they voiced the idea of allowing farmers/landowners to dredge rivers themselves without any supervision.

I have no doubt that a properly funded fully manned angling department that is not the whipping boy of other depts. within the EA would be wonderful, unfortunately what we have is a small part of a massive government quango that is underfunded, under manned and top heavy with management that couldn't care less about angling being to busy looking after their own slice of an ever dwindling cake.

The government will never be able to get rid of the EA completely, the EU wont allow them to, what they can do is what they do now, promise and sign up to targets they have no intention of meeting. Your comment about prosecuting it (the EA?) I don't understand at all. Its the EA that should be prosecuting offenders, figures prove they fail massively in that area as well.

In answer to your last question, yes I have they are called river trusts.
 

wes79

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Hi Wes,
Generally in agreement with your post - however it is not only the fault of the government of the day - it is also a problem with 'the Law' and Company ethics (or lack of them! :eek:). It can be very difficult to openly discuss e.g. current pollution incidents whilst they are in course of investigation, before the court, or in appeal.
Many companies actually use this to buy themselves time or even have cases thrown out arguing that the case has been prejudiced by adverse publicity in the press or on 'social media'. - As if we would do anything like that here! :rolleyes:
The EA argue that to reveal details of pollution incidents whilst sub judice could cause a pending prosecution to collapse and render them liable for costs and/or damages - a problem that FishLegal are aware of and are trying to find ways 'around'.
E.g. by implementing the 'public interest' defence - as allowed recently via the European Courts of Justice but being fought by DEFRA and our government in the current anti-european inteference prompted as a backlash to UKIP's tactics!
Ho-Humm - just as we thought being in Europe was useful!;):rolleyes:

Hi greenie62, I was referring to the hush hush of discussing politics on this forum and other forums in general (I should of perhaps been more specific, so apologies) and why it might stiffle a good debate before it even starts :D

I agree with not mentioning company names during any investigation, that's common sense and the last thing we need are vigilante's missing all the facts, while I don't neccessarily agree or disagree I can appreciate the time that can be bought from such lengthy processes and why, again, we find ourselves having our best traits used against us (that ever lasting British patience). My opinion is its a shame all license holders haven't yet figured out why they have less power on remedy as the companies and big business's have when we pay for representatives, to do just that.....represent us in the first instance, it certainly isn't a dig at anyone as I have paid for a license two years in row now, I'm just starting to question why I need one in the first place :confused:
 
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greenie62

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... I have paid for a license two years in row now, I'm starting to question why I need one in the first place :confused:

Which really is the point of the OP thread! :eek:;):D

As previously asked - If Sea Anglers had to buy a licence would it help them catch more fish? :)
 

wes79

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Which really is the point of the OP thread! :eek:;):D

As previously asked - If Sea Anglers had to buy a licence would it help them catch more fish? :)


I'm happy with your interpretation greenie62 :D

No, of course not but then to catch fish in quantity for a living does require another license according to the state, who would coerce you to remove your net quite quickly if you don't have it (all the while you collectively paid upfront for their presence).
All it shows is that the company or business model will always have more powers than you or I as business and companies use the government to make laws in their favor far more effectively than we can using our money.
 
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no-one in particular

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Are you sure about that? rivers may look a lot cleaner, what quantity of endocrine disrupters are in our rivers? they can be filtered out but guess what the water companies don't and the EA don't force them to. How do you know what polutents are discharged into rivers when the EA don't know?


That much learning has taken place that they think that dredging rivers on the somerset levels is the way to control floods even though they have been told by experts that its not the way to go, floods that have happened for hundreds of years in that area, learnt so much that they voiced the idea of allowing farmers/landowners to dredge rivers themselves without any supervision.

I have no doubt that a properly funded fully manned angling department that is not the whipping boy of other depts. within the EA would be wonderful, unfortunately what we have is a small part of a massive government quango that is underfunded, under manned and top heavy with management that couldn't care less about angling being to busy looking after their own slice of an ever dwindling cake.

The government will never be able to get rid of the EA completely, the EU wont allow them to, what they can do is what they do now, promise and sign up to targets they have no intention of meeting. Your comment about prosecuting it (the EA?) I don't understand at all. Its the EA that should be prosecuting offenders, figures prove they fail massively in that area as well.

In answer to your last question, yes I have they are called river trusts.

I doubt any river will ever be pure H2O, there will always be new pollutants discovered with better detection methods, new pollutants produced by industrial companies and new ones created in the environment. I doubt anyone could be aware of them all - all of the time. As long as we try to keep on top of them. And I dare say the EA try and fail on occasions.

The somerset levels-last program I saw they were raising the roads by 8ft and building barriers. There were many suggestions aired about the best way to stop floods last year, I don't know what the best ones were, but at least some are being tried. Suggesting farmers do it themselves unsupervised was probably not the best idea from the EA.

I am not against the idea of a angling dept within the EA but, it could not be separated from other environmental issues, many are linked to angling in some way. Soil erosion, wind farms, bio diversity, drinking water, climate change etc. Every organization is over manned by management, people always gravitate to these jobs and nice comfortable administrative jobs. However, it does not mean they are not necessary. And they do have people in the field doing the dirty work. But, I agree, a better proportional level would be better. I don't agree they don't care about angling- I have found them helpful, concerned and willing to listen on angling issues, as far as dealing with any Gov bureaucratic organization can be. In fact they are better than some, I have just have to deal with my local town hall on something completely different and it was a total nightmare. By the by. I would say the EA are aware of their remit, what there job is for and mostly try as hard as they can to fulfill that role within the restraints imposed on them.

I imagine the Gov could get rid of any department it wants to and we may not be in the EU one day. (I m could be wrong on both counts). Promising to meet targets; sometime they do sometimes they don't. they have got a lot nearer meeting EU clean sea water targets, clean air targets etc. But, yes, they do fail sometimes but, I wouldn't say massively. I have seen massive improvements in my lifetime on many things and in somepart due to the EA, Eu targets.

My point about prosecuting the EA- is the EA the most prosecuted Gov Dept, ditto the most costly to the Gov, and the least popular by the people its trying to help? Would they look to get rid of such a dept over others? Who knows, I don't but, it seems we could be cutting of our noses---

River trusts, they seemed to work well once upon a time, I do not know much about them. We are where we are and I think I would rather make the best of what we have instead of wholesale change, take too long, too costly and prone to long periods of errors with no guarantee it would make things better.

I doubt you will find any good points in any thing much. I myself have frequently done the same over the last few years But, at some point you have to also look at the good points and weigh up the pros and cons to make a balanced judgement and decide to support or not.
 
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thecrow

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I doubt any river will ever be pure H2O, there will always be new pollutants discovered with better detection methods, new pollutants produced by industrial companies and new ones created in the environment. I doubt anyone could be aware of them all - all of the time. As long as we try to keep on top of them. And I dare say the EA try and fail on occasions.

The somerset levels-last program I saw they were raising the roads by 8ft and building barriers. There were many suggestions aired about the best way to stop floods last year, I don't know what the best ones were, but at least some are being tried. Suggesting farmers do it themselves unsupervised was probably not the best idea from the EA.

I am not against the idea of a angling dept within the EA but, it could not be separated from other environmental issues, many are linked to angling in some way. Soil erosion, wind farms, bio diversity, drinking water, climate change etc. Every organization is over manned by management, people always gravitate to these jobs and nice comfortable administrative jobs. However, it does not mean they are not necessary. And they do have people in the field doing the dirty work. But, I agree, a better proportional level would be better. I don't agree they don't care about angling- I have found them helpful, concerned and willing to listen on angling issues, as far as dealing with any Gov bureaucratic organization can be. In fact they are better than some, I have just have to deal with my local town hall on something completely different and it was a total nightmare. By the by. I would say the EA are aware of their remit, what there job is for and mostly try as hard as they can to fulfill that role within the restraints imposed on them.

I imagine the Gov could get rid of any department it wants to and we may not be in the EU one day. (I m could be wrong on both counts). Promising to meet targets; sometime they do sometimes they don't. they have got a lot nearer meeting EU clean sea water targets, clean air targets etc. But, yes, they do fail sometimes but, I wouldn't say massively. I have seen massive improvements in my lifetime on many things and in somepart due to the EA, Eu targets.

My point about prosecuting the EA- is the EA the most prosecuted Gov Dept, ditto the most costly to the Gov, and the least popular by the people its trying to help? Would they look to get rid of such a dept over others? Who knows, I don't but, it seems we could be cutting of our noses---

River trusts, they seemed to work well once upon a time, I do not know much about them. We are where we are and I think I would rather make the best of what we have instead of wholesale change, take too long, too costly and prone to long periods of errors with no guarantee it would make things better.

I doubt you will find any good points in any thing much. I myself have frequently done the same over the last few years But, at some point you have to also look at the good points and weigh up the pros and cons to make a balanced judgement and decide to support or not.



I think I will give up, sometimes that's just the best thing to do when facts that are proven cannot be accepted by another.
 

aebitim

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Which really is the point of the OP thread! :eek:;):D

As previously asked - If Sea Anglers had to buy a licence would it help them catch more fish? :)

I doubt it but it may possibly slow down the trend of catching less fish which is the best we can hope for at the moment. . .
 

no-one in particular

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I think I will give up, sometimes that's just the best thing to do when facts that are proven cannot be accepted by another.

I have accepted your facts, 16% follow up rate, ignoring and ignorance of some types of pollution. Wrong advice given on occasions. etc. I have not said they are wrong. I have not disputed them. Your misunderstanding is because I have not verbally acknowledged them, that's not the same as disputing them or not accepting them. I have read them and mentally acknowledge them as true.
And I accept these facts are failings and need addressing and discussed. But they do not convince me that the EA have never done/will do any good, in the past , present or future, never get their hands dirty, they hate anglers, should be abolished or replaced etc etc. There are a bunch of other facts to look at.
 
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thecrow

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EA have never done/will do any good, in the past , present or future, never get their hands dirty, they hate anglers, should be abolished or replaced etc etc. There are a bunch of other facts to look at.


None of which are in any of my posts, please read my posts properly before attributing things to them that are not there.

If you want to continue to believe the EA are doing a good job that's up to you but one day when all the Ostriches remove their head from the sand they will wonder where the river fishing has gone never to return.
 

no-one in particular

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None of which are in any of my posts, please read my posts properly before attributing things to them that are not there.

Oh common Crow, don't get all nit picky on me,
you don't like the EA, don't think they do any good, would rather see them be replaced by river trusts, you think they are all top heavy and don't get their hands dirty enough, you said they take no notice of anglers. never acknowledge to my memory that they have ever done any good.
True or false- would that sum up your general opinion. In a word-The EA is ****.

If any of that's not true, my apologies. I have miss- represented your opinion and I retract them.

I am only having a go at you because this year I have never seen you see the good in anything-I thought I would try and cure you of this. Its not good for your health. I was hoping you might turn over a new leaf and make it your new years resolution for next year, see all the good things. All that pecking just wears your pecker out. And a worn out pecker is not a lot of fun. I know.
 
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thecrow

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None of which are in any of my posts, please read my posts properly before attributing things to them that are not there.

Oh common Crow, don't get all nit picky on me,
you don't like the EA, don't think they do any good, would rather see them be replaced by river trusts, you think they are all top heavy and don't get their hands dirty enough, you said they take no notice of anglers. never acknowledge to my memory that they have ever done any good.
True or false- would that sum up your general opinion. In a word-The EA is ****.


If any of that's not true, my apologies. I have miss- represented your opinion and I retract them.


Firstly I aint no "common crow" and this crow isn't "nit picking" its very bad form to attribute something to me that I have never said, let me ask you.

Where have I said that I would want the EA replaced by river trusts?

Where have I said I" don't like the EA" ?

Where have I said "they don't get their hands dirty" ?

Where have I said "they take notice of anglers" ?

Would you argue that the fisheries dept of the EA are not top heavy with management? why do you think the front line workers are in short supply?

You are correct that I haven't acknowledged any good they have done, does that mean I think they have never done any good?

So you decide what is false and while you are about it perhaps you can supply some facts to back up your side of the debate because so far there have been none.
 

The bad one

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Like them or not (EA) good, bad or indifferent, they are all we’ve got, the last line of defence we have against our rivers becoming the Victorian cesspits they were of my childhood. And here in the NW we know better than most about rivers being Victorian cesspits. Over their tenure the NW rivers have gone from lifeless sewers that ran every colour of the Rainbow to now having thriving life and fish populations.

Are they safe from becoming cesspits of the past? No! They live on a knife-edge every day. But without the EA those that pollute them would do it with no hesitation if they knew they get away with it. Some still do as per Greenies post on the Erwell. But that’s a sub judice case at the moment so I’ll say no more.

Here one for you Crow there’s a country park near me with a small brook running through it, it feeds into the Erwell north of Manchester City centre. It also has pollution discharge running in it of unknown origins. And believe me the EA has tried to locate the source but to no avail. Victorians were great at building sewers, but not great at leaving plans of them for future generations to use. The water quality of this brook is appalling, so to address the problem the EA is spending 3 million quid to sort it out. The work is in progress as I write. That is the type of work I want to see them do with taxation money because it support and makes better, by cutting unknown sources of pollution entering the river for the fish they have stocked, paid for by licence money!
 

thecrow

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Like them or not (EA) good, bad or indifferent, they are all we’ve got, the last line of defence we have against our rivers becoming the Victorian cesspits they were of my childhood. And here in the NW we know better than most about rivers being Victorian cesspits. Over their tenure the NW rivers have gone from lifeless sewers that ran every colour of the Rainbow to now having thriving life and fish populations.

Are they safe from becoming cesspits of the past? No! They live on a knife-edge every day. But without the EA those that pollute them would do it with no hesitation if they knew they get away with it. Some still do as per Greenies post on the Erwell. But that’s a sub judice case at the moment so I’ll say no more.

Here one for you Crow there’s a country park near me with a small brook running through it, it feeds into the Erwell north of Manchester City centre. It also has pollution discharge running in it of unknown origins. And believe me the EA has tried to locate the source but to no avail. Victorians were great at building sewers, but not great at leaving plans of them for future generations to use. The water quality of this brook is appalling, so to address the problem the EA is spending 3 million quid to sort it out. The work is in progress as I write. That is the type of work I want to see them do with taxation money because it support and makes better, by cutting unknown sources of pollution entering the river for the fish they have stocked, paid for by licence money!



And so they should be, don't run away with the idea that I think the EA have never done anything for the good of angling they have but I am afraid that they are spread far to thin on the ground to be able to do whats needed.

Heres one for you TBO, what sort of environmental organisation issues licences to catch an endangered species? that would be the EA wouldn't it?
 

The bad one

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And so they should be, don't run away with the idea that I think the EA have never done anything for the good of angling they have but I am afraid that they are spread far to thin on the ground to be able to do whats needed.

Heres one for you TBO, what sort of environmental organisation issues licences to catch an endangered species? that would be the EA wouldn't it?

Agree they are and explained or tried to the reasons why,,,,,Cuts in the past, now and in the future!

What type of endangered species are you referring too? Fish, reptile, mammal?
 

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I haven't read all the comments but I wanted to reply to the original post from Benny. So in defence of the EA (I know silly right?) my local club have had batches of 2000 Barbel going into my local river for the last 4 years, The club have said that they were free!. Otters decimated the Barbel population over the last few years and its rare to catch one. I think its good that the EA are looking after the species regardless of anglers catching them. My money to Fish on that note is worth it I think.
 
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