Fish Thefts

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Mark Hodson

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My article on this matter has now been sent to Graham, (sent it last night but it bounced back, must of been a problem at one end or another). Anyway, it does contain some cold hard figures and facts and puts the whole matter in perspective. I won't say anymore.
 
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David Marrs

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''Strange how it has now apeared in the Times.Strange how Mr Bradford is apparently mates with Keith Arthur who writes a regular piece in the paper.'' - and is well known for his love of Zander too. NOT!!!
 
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Andy Doughty

Guest
"Some people obviously believe that if they tell the story enough people will start to believe it."

And the problem is that they do! And when idiots like AT print stories like this it doesn?t help matters.

I just can?t get my head around the fact that you can print what ever you want with no justification or proof to back it up in a national 'news'paper. If I done similar things in my job (i.e. fitting dodgy/unproven parts to aircraft) I would be sacked or imprisoned.

The whole thing stinks of a lack of stories and the need to get out of office quickly to go fishing!

Wouldn?t a story like "Angling Times Turns over fish stealing gang" be better, or would that involve actually doing your jobs?

P.S. I read the bits in the AT this week whilst walking round Tesco?s, put it pack on the shelf before I left.....
 
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David Marrs

Guest
Have to say Andy, the AT chaps have gone very quiet since appearing yesterday on the thread!

I'd rather we all got on and had a giggle as fellow anglers; but this massive 'dig' has the potential to re-open a divide which I personally thought was gradually being eroded. We do not need this!!!
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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"I read the bits in AT this week whilst walking around Tesco's, put it back on the shelf before I left."

I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror after pulling a stroke like this!

Buy the paper, it's only ?1.40 for goodness sake.
 

Richard Lee 2

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I don't want to get involved in this matter any further other than to make the following observation.

A Some people - not just Roy Webster - think there is an issue of silver fish theft in Norfolk. Others dispute this, that's fine, but there is a debate.
And what if there isn't a problem in Norfolk, say the cynics are right - let's hope they are! What's the issue? Pike angling isn't going to suffer - the debate is about a few people potentially illegally netting fish.
In addition, that reward money might get us a result elsewhere in the country. Why critisise that?

B I know for a fact that fish theft outside Norfolk is happening - I even know some people responsible. I am just looking for evidence. In the main it is carp, and in the main it is from canals and rivers. Club lakes are also being hit.

C The ?10k reward offered by AT is for a conviction anywhere in the country in relation to any fish species.

If the story flushes out one group of people then in my mind it is worth it. If AT has to take some flak along the way then so be it.

Looking back, I first decided it was time to do something following the many calls and discussions Keith Arthur had on his radio show - it was a topic that needed support and to be opened up. Ironically when we first reported it we were slagged off for not being aggressive enough against the alleged poaching. How things change.

Ok, so a few have people have fired bullets at Angling Times for it not being the perfect expose - to be honest they're the usual suspects I'd expect it from and we could almost run a book here into what certain people are going to write - but I think we'll just about survive. You know lads, if the internet had been around 30 years ago I am convinced poor old Walker would have been given a load of grief. Even an inspirational man like **** would have fallen foul of those waiting to pounce. Don't believe me?... just look what people do to Des, Hayes, Arthur, Browny - no-one in the public eye escapes. For whatever reason, some people want to dislike.

Maybe if I'd have had John Pilger on the team we might have delved slightly deeper into this theft issue, but we have limited resources and we're producing a national publication. This was about raising awareness. I know what puts sales on - record perch/record roach for a starters, but not rewards. That wasn't the end game.

You should visit the pike forum that's made a mock Angling Crimes front page up - it is hilarious and fair play, but I do hope they realise the bigger picture.

Fish theft in general is a subject that needs airing and stamping out. Some people might think our story is paper thin, but others see it differently, however one thing is for sure there were lots of fish illegally moved this winter. Whether that was in Norfolk or elsewhere, ultimately it doesnt bloody matter. It just can't be right.

And yes I do have questions I'd like answering about the bait trade. I pay good money for my deads and I'd like to know why I can buy fish in unmarked packs - I can name shops that stock them - and again why do some roach have long lines sticking out of their mouths? It might be all very simple, but I'd still like to understand it. No crime there.

Finally as anglers we should agree the fact that fish theft in various forms exists, we should debate it in our chosen websites and publications, and try and do something about it. A reward is one way but I'm sure there are others.Go find your own answers and methods, but at least think about it.

It would be tragic and short sighted if the 'big picture' debate was soured into a point scoring match about who said what and when. If you care about your waters then you'd support any kind of 'fish watch' scheme.
 
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Budgie Burgess

Guest
Richard if anglers (pike or not) really thought this sort of thing was happening widespread dont you think we would be concerned?

I must admit that I never buy baits from the tackle shop preffering to source my own so cant comment on the packaging/long linning evidence points you raise.But I do see that most if not all of the people I know or respect dont see this.

Tell us where you brought these unmarked baits from (and why did you buy them in the first place with out questioning if you suspected there was some thing amiss?) and where you got the roach with lines comming out of them.Surely not a legal problem as all you are doing is reporting facts?

In the recent debate about fish thefts from the "Wetsheds" Bob gave several reasons behind why he thought this had happened all of these were pointed pout to be flawed by various people, some of them (in the case of piscavoures leaving/not leaving scales)scientificly qualified people.He chose to ignore these true facts and say we were wrong.Straight away this makes it very hard to take the mans claims seriously.

Anglers are renowned for crying wolf over fish thefts/deaths when for some reason they arnt catching.

Am I dismissing it lightly,well no as the real problem with people constantly crying wolf is that the real issues start to e ignored.

Also as for the angling press taking on a "crusading role" then no I for one dont want either the Times or the Mail to do this.You are newspapers and I would prefer that you concentrated on trying to do that ie reporting news acurately to the best of your abilities.Rather than trying to make news yourselves.
 

Richard Lee 2

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Budgie, I agree that people cry wolf, but theft is happening out there.Maybe it's just carp, maybe not.
The long lined roach were in a bulk purchase from an advertiser in a specialist magazine. Probably completely legal if they were from abroad, I would just like to know.
As regards 'crusading' - I think there's times when websites, papers, mags etc should all try and bring issues into the public eye. It might be something as 'pro' as say National Fishing Week and I guess as this isn't contentious no-one would have a problem with it. But I believe there are times more sensitive issues need to be looked at. I suppose if fishing organisations had lot of money and a big, willing membership, then campaigning could be left to the likes of the NFA etc but I'm not sure we're there at the moment.
I hear talk that livebaiting has just been banned in other parts of Europe without any democratic process, if this proves to be true should we try and fight that? Or is it someone elses battle? And if we fight on the grounds of the 'big picture' who has enough power and leverage to really make a difference?
 

Kevin Ferguson

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Sadly this has gone beyond just a fish stealing issue and because of AT we now have clubs calling for a deadbait ban.
All because AT couldn't bother to check facts, perhaps you can re-produce the article by Mark Hodson to tell the readers of the AT what is really happening.
An article obviously wrtten by someone who has checked their facts!!
 

captain carrott

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i've just read your article through properly mark instead of the speed read it got first time and it really is an excellent piece well done.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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As an angler who loves his bit of piking every winter I would hate it if clubs started to ban deadbaiting.

Mind you I mainly use sea baits.
 
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EC

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Excellent article Mark, as Fred said, lots of common sense and 'sraight from the horses mouth' experience.
 
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Chris Bishop

Guest
As regards 'crusading' - I think there's times when websites, papers, mags etc should all try and bring issues into the public eye.

I couldn't agree more. Angling could use more agenda-setting, campaigning journalism about a lot of issues.

I've been to a talk by an EA fisheries scientist tonight who's studied a river catchment for more than 20 years.

He's concluded the way some rivers are now managed has led to a decline in roach, bream and other species which may never be reversed.

This river catchment's become like a conveyor belt, with fish spawned in its middle reaches and feeder tributaries being pushed downstream by fierce winter run-offs until they literally end up in the sea.

Be good to see the papers get to grips with that one.

They stocked 10 tonnes of fish into it in the space of five years or so and they all just disappeared.

The EA reckon they ended up as crab bait.

In the main it is carp, and in the main it is from canals and rivers. Club lakes are also being hit.

No-one's disputing carp are being stolen and there's a thriving black market.

But the fish theft story YOU CAN STOP THE THIEVES didn't mention any of this. It said:

"It is now thought criminal gangs are targeting huge stocks of silverfish for use in the deadbait trade...."

When you talk about the bigger picture, the original story didn't put the issue in context with any bigger picture.

It was where have our fish gone..? They must have been nicked for deadbaits.

The bigger picture - and I heard some quite chilling things tonight I've never heard before - is changes in our climate and the way rivers are managed is having a devastating impact on all species, not just silver fish.
 
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Budgie Burgess

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No Im not disputing that specimen fish of several species are being stolen for selling on as stock.Im not disputing that some are being taken for the pot.Neither am I disputing that some stupid old fools are killing fish just because of their own bigoted ideas.

What I am disputing is the story of tons upon tons of fish being taken ilegally for the deadbait trade.mark my words their will be loads of repercussions from AT running this "scare" story.Many small club comittee men will take this as gospel (having read it in AT) and there will be bans on taking baits/using baits etc etc.Non of which will afect anyone (if indeed there is anyone) doing this.All it will afect is the pike/predator angler.

As for AT leading the crusade well I have been on the back lash of some of there other "crusades" the "Pike Power" one in particular.

Angling journalists are in a strange position.They are often looked at as experts on all maters angling/fishery management etc by both anglers and non anglers.This is often not the case but that is not their fault.They should however (IMO) realise this and be a bit more responsible by ensuring that 1. the facts are correct and 2. they are presented properly.Above all they should remember that like it or not right or wrong they are a very influencial body.

But then when does the angler in them stop and the journalist take over?Sensationalism may sell papers but it also causes us the guys on the bank a lot of grief.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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Chris,

Which river was he taking about? When you mention "bad river management", was there anything specific that was raised?

The dredging of rivers for example has had a devastating effect on fish species.
 
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BAZ (Angel of the North) aka Fester

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Very interesting article Mark.

I haven't read this thread right through so please forgive me if I am off topic.

How about fish thefts from our own back yard so to speak?
I was recently told by one angler being offered ?500 for a certain fish to be caught from a well known water(bravado????) The offer was made from a fishery owner. That is why I am so adament about anglers not posting too many details about fish location.
 
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Mark Hodson

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Baz

Again such stories are fiction, if I am reading you right, ?500 to catch a named fish, as we know history is littered with anglers who have spent years chasing named fish never to see them on the bank, such a thing isn't plausable, also named fish are recognisable, so you would have the same situation as the theft of a picture by a famous artist, yes you can steal it, selling it on is another matter. Most big fish thefts are anglers trying to stock their own fishing spots without fishery owners, controlling clubs knowing. Some of the bigger carp in the Birmingham Park Pools used to move around more than Caine out of Kung Fu. It does happen, always has, Its not right but its nothing to worry about in the long run, the threat is of course the spread of disease, but anglers nets can be just an equal threat when it comes to spreading infections and is anyone worrying about that ?

The one thing about anglers is that there are some that are just full of bull and nothing more, thats how these stories start but trouble is they take our attention from the real issues we face.
 
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