Fishmeal in baits

Philip

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How any fish were caught in potatoes at all is fairly amazing. Its like in the quest to find a bait that would be small fish proof they choose a rubbish bait nothing would eat.

I heard an interesting pod cast just recently that discussed this and the general consensus was that the majority of fish taking them was more out of their inquisitive nature than the fact they wanted to eat the bait.

The early bait development days were a little before my time but I have since enjoyed reading and hearing about the way baits developed with anglers such as Fred Wilton in particular leading the way. Some of the catches at places like Darenth on his baits were incredible for the time and laid the foundation for the boile revolution that came after.
 

Old fisher

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How any fish were caught in potatoes at all is fairly amazing. Its like in the quest to find a bait that would be small fish proof they choose a rubbish bait nothing would eat.

I heard an interesting pod cast just recently that discussed this and the general consensus was that the majority of fish taking them was more out of their inquisitive nature than the fact they wanted to eat the bait.

The early bait development days were a little before my time but I have since enjoyed reading and hearing about the way baits developed with anglers such as Fred Wilton in particular leading the way. Some of the catches at places like Darenth on his baits were incredible for the time and laid the foundation for the boile revolution that came after.
In those days particle baits were really going strong. Rod Hutchinson had great success using maple peas. and lots of anglers were into chick peas. and Hutchinson and Yates were also really big sweetcorn users at places like Redmire poole and Savay
 

Philip

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Yes your right ..Rod Hutchinson led the way with the paticles and I believe the one he rated above all the others was the maple pea..how many people use Maples on the hook today ? …not too many I bet…theres an edge there somewhere.

He also made the point that particles were at their best if you threw them in hot from the pan while they were still pumping out oils and flavours.

RH was also I think one of the first people to start using the soluble flavors as a “label” to their baits. Nesquik for example was a popular additive I believe back then.
 

Old fisher

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Yes your right ..Rod Hutchinson led the way with the paticles and I believe the one he rated above all the others was the maple pea..how many people use Maples on the hook today ? …not too many I bet…theres an edge there somewhere.

He also made the point that particles were at their best if you threw them in hot from the pan while they were still pumping out oils and flavours.

RH was also I think one of the first people to start using the soluble flavors as a “label” to their baits. Nesquik for example was a popular additive I believe back then.
I've still got a couple of his tea shirts he gave me because I used to buy his milk protein powders and additives for making my early boilies
 

markcw

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Anglers still use potato today ,cut into slices similar to luncheon meat and punched out,
Covered with either coffee powder, chocolate powder or something like a glug,.
A good change of bait on commercials
 

David Rogers 3

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Chris Yates mentions several times in his books something he called 'Racing Beans' as successful carp baits - apparently, these were tic beans, used as winter feed for racing pigeons.
 

rayner

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The fact that it takes 4 tonnes of fish to make 1 tonne of fishmeal may have something to do with stopping the production of fishmeal.
Fish will soon get used to being fed alternatives.
 

Old fisher

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The fact that it takes 4 tonnes of fish to make 1 tonne of fishmeal may have something to do with stopping the production of fishmeal.
Fish will soon get used to being fed alternatives.
If those facts are correct, then it must in the long term. benefit sea anglers as well as the wildlife. Also millions of tonnes of fishmeal also get put onto the land as fertilizer
 
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The bad one

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I still make my own boilies for barbel fishing nothing elaborate fishmeal, marmite, wheatgerm and semolina flour as a binder along with a few eggs. Works well and catches me a few barbel. But with barbel I think anything that’s edible would tempt them, as they are really, really thick fish when on the feed.
 

Old fisher

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You have to think about fishmeal in baits may be the reason why the majority of lakes are becoming full of weed as fishmeal is one of the most used fertilizers in growing crops by farmers etc. and some of that ends up in the water courses as run off from pasture and other farmland.
 

The bad one

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You have to think about fishmeal in baits may be the reason why the majority of lakes are becoming full of weed as fishmeal is one of the most used fertilizers in growing crops by farmers etc. and some of that ends up in the water courses as run off from pasture and other farmland.
Whilst the use of fishmeal in baits adds something to the load in fertilizing weed growth, it’s minuscule to what runs off the land. Which is synthetic fertilizer and has been since 1960s, known as NPK.
Not organic fertilizer which can and does contain some fishmeal or more precisely fish waste, along with blood and animal derivatives, also manure, both human and animal. The use of organics whilst growing is still a small sector of todays farming that is still dependant on synthetic fertilzers.

The concerns of the use of fishmeal are not because of increases nutrification in water, as a fertiliser, but because the gathering of it is impacting on the whole trophic structure of the seas. The seas are being raped of fish species that underpin all sea life above them.
And why are they being raped? To feed farmed fish and as farmed animal with high protean feedstuffs, as that is far more profitable than fertilizer put on the ground to fertilize it.
 

Old fisher

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I believe you under estimate the effect fishmeal from bait has on the water. Almost every ground bait has it in it plus most boilies are the same, An angler throws in 1kg at least and the majority that the fish eat passes straight through the fishes gut ending up on the lake bed. This is congregated at every swim and and is being put in time and time again, day in day out, year after year. One ounce of it on your garden will make the plants grow much better than if it's not used. Most anglers these days put in more than a kilo in a day, so it has to have a big impact on the growth of water plants. That is my opinion, and you have yours.
 

fishface1

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Yes - eutrophication of fishing lakes is a real thing.

There have been a number of documented cases of fish kills / oxygen crashes linked to angler’s bait.

Many lakes are groundwater fed so don’t receive significant quantities of direct agricultural run-off (obviously potentially some via groundwater pollution) so your theory of fishmeal fertiliser may not be far off the truth.
 

steve2

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I wonder just how many of the millions of boilies and pellets thrown into lakes or eaten by fish. They must be rotting away on the bottom of many lakes releasing whatever chemicals are in them.
 

The bad one

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I believe you under estimate the effect fishmeal from bait has on the water. Almost every ground bait has it in it plus most boilies are the same, An angler throws in 1kg at least and the majority that the fish eat passes straight through the fishes gut ending up on the lake bed. This is congregated at every swim and and is being put in time and time again, day in day out, year after year. One ounce of it on your garden will make the plants grow much better than if it's not used. Most anglers these days put in more than a kilo in a day, so it has to have a big impact on the growth of water plants. That is my opinion, and you have yours.
You are entitled to your opinion even if it's way off the beam, and it really is in this case.
I have and do fish waters that have never seen a boilie but have hyper weed growth and the characteristic they have in common…. they are all in arable areas!

There are also many trout waters up and down the country that have never seen a maggot, let alone a boilie and again they suffer hyper growth of weed, Gratham, Rutland, Farmoor and many, many more. Reason – land run off of NPK.
What most anglers fail to realise is boilies don’t just sit they on the bottom rotting away. They breakdown and are eaten by the invertebrates that live in the water and bottom sediment. Years ago, when I was fishing one mere I put in the edge in about 6 inches of water several types of bait groundbait, pellet, small 12 mm boilies, sweetcorn just before it went dark. Checking on the baits every two hours with a light to see how they were dissolving. The experiment wasn’t originally to see what ate the bait; it was to see how fast/slow they broke down.

I was shocked to see how many invertebrates were feeding on them. By morning the pellet, groundbait, had gone completely. Boilies were half eaten, sweetcorn had lost some of the internal pulp. I repeated that experiment on every mere I fished (15+) with much the same results. These day they call that Citizen Science experimentation.

When I went to university (Mature Student) to do my degree in Environmental Studies and Ecology, one of my tutors was Mike Dobson a renowned Freshwater/invertebrate scientist who oversaw my final dissertation. In a discussion we had I recounted to Mike the above experiments I’d done, and he was not surprised at all. In fact, he said based on his own work on river invertebrates leaf packs on the River Sett Derbyshire, he’d have expected it.

So based on both experiments his and mine it is very wrong to think boilies just sit there creating pollution and eutrophication. As I said above they add to the base load without doubt, but that addition is minuscule compared to what agricultural fertilisers do through run off.

Turning to the comments on oxygen (O) crashing by bait. Lets just establish the difference between weed and algae. Weed is a plant with a firm central stem. Algae is organism usual single celled. Weed gives off Oxygen during day light hours and Carbon dioxide (Co2) in the dark hours. It grows during the period of the year when light hours are far longer than dark. Therefore, the O levels given off are far greater because of it than the Co2. A weedy water is very unlikely if ever to have an O crash.

On the other hand, Algae robs O from the water and give nothing back other than Co2 as it dies and likely to have an O crash. The life cycle of algae is very short days and a few weeks at most.

Commercial and overstocked water are far more likely to have algal blooms and fish deaths through an O crash because the Biological Oxygen Demands (BOD) are vastly higher than they would be if they were stocked at a natural level. Natural level stocking is between 350lb to 450lbs per acre. Commercials are stocked at 800lb to 1000lbs + per acre. They are devoid of weed due to the type of species stocked, which root, grub out and eat it. They are also mainly devoid of invertebrates as fish stocked at the levels commies have, have eat them because they are constantly hungry.

To recap, weed puts O in the water, whereas algae takes O out of the water, putting in Co2 when it dies.
Highly over stocked waters such as many commercials have a far greater BOD because of the number, type of species stocked and lack of true weed growth.

Finally ground water, ground water comes in several forms deep underground springs bubbling up to the surface, the Water Table that rises and falls dependant on how much or how little is in the aquifers and Through Flow that is water movement through the top 1-2 metres of surface soil. Through Flow is the one that causes the greatest problems of eutrophication as it picks up the fertilizers that have been spread on the land and leached down into the soil.

I hope from the above “proven science” you now have a better understanding of how and why eutrophication, over enrichment call it what you want cases super weed growth and algae blooms. Rather than somebody’s Auntie Ethel anecdotal posting on Facebook or carp fever magazine.
 
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nottskev

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Thanks for that. I can see what's going on now behind the everyday observation that the fisheries most liberally bombarded with fishmeal feed and baits are exactly those with no weed growth and requiring aerators. Although I'm guessing the habits of carp add to the weedless turbidity.
 

fishface1

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Crikey. Long post. And you are entitled to your view, as are others.

I think you may have misheard your tutor, as you are wrong on algae. Unless there’s some new Facebook science I missed since studying it at University.

Algae produce most of the oxygen we breath.

But they are somewhat unstable and do die off quickly leading to microbial action that denudes the water of O2.
 
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