Float, physics, sensitivity question?

[sam vimes]

I rarely go fishing with anything but float rods available to me. Once in a while, when fishing a river, it becomes apparent that the fish simply aren't interested in a moving bait. If I'm fishing a top and bottom float, it'll usually be attached only by float rubbers and "shotted" with a single olivette. If I get desperate enough, I'll take the float off and fish the olivette as a light leger. It's hardly an ideal leger set up, but it does bring bonus fish on awkward days.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

I rarely go fishing with anything but float rods available to me. .... If I get desperate enough, I'll take the float off and fish the olivette as a light leger. It's hardly an ideal leger set up, but it does bring bonus fish on awkward days.

As a relative newcomer to coarse fishing, I suggested this approach a year or so ago, when I was of a mindset where I'd float fish only. I'm still inclined that way. When I suggested what you describe, I was ridiculed for suggesting that it didn't matter to the fish if the rod was a float rod or a feeder. I accept, as you do, that this is not ideal, but thanks for (inadvertently) reassuring me that I am not a complete idiot!
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[markcw]

As a relative newcomer to coarse fishing, I suggested this approach a year or so ago, when I was of a mindset where I'd float fish only. I'm still inclined that way. When I suggested what you describe, I was ridiculed for suggesting that it didn't matter to the fish if the rod was a float rod or a feeder. I accept, as you do, that this is not ideal, but thanks for (inadvertently) reassuring me that I am not a complete idiot!
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I've used large olivettes as leger weights a few times on lakes etc . Less splash going in ,and sometimes get better bites due to less resistance along the line

 

[no-one in particular]

Then make your rig up, you don't need an answer, you knew already, mechanics make no difference, I do wish you luck, but all answers that are given will be based on our fishing, because we don't do yours, the fun is maybe experimenting to find your best option, our thoughts are of no use...

My post was a question that I did not know the answer to, I got the answer. I did not understand the lack of understanding about what and why I was trying to achieve given that I had gone to great lengths to explain it. Its not the "I wouldn't try it" is the problem", its the "I wouldn't try it" so it must be rubbish without taking into account or thinking about anything I had said.

 

[@Clive]

My post was a question that I did not know the answer to, I got the answer. I did not understand the lack of understanding about what and why I was trying to achieve given that I had gone to great lengths to explain it. Its not the "I wouldn't try it" is the problem", its the "I wouldn't try it" so it must be rubbish without taking into account anything I had said.

That could be because the described rig appears to have no benefits and some issues that you do not seem to appreciate. If you are trying to achieve increased sensitivity then you are looking in the wrong place. The specific gravity of float tips and their dimensions is probably the way to achieve a more sensitive rig.

 

[no-one in particular]

That could be because the described rig appears to have no benefits and some issues that you do not seem to appreciate. If you are trying to achieve increased sensitivity then you are looking in the wrong place. The specific gravity of float tips and their dimensions is probably the way to achieve a more sensitive rig.

No, I am not/was trying to achieve increased sensitivity, I am trying to achieve convenience ease and more time. my question was "was it more or less sensitive or the same" as I could not work that out and I was curious. Now I know it will be less sensitive, that's all I wanted to know. Does it make any difference, no, my understanding it will be marginal, I have said I am not a perfectionist, a pleasure angler just trying to maximise my limited time with a bait in the water. I will not be fishing any different to what I have done before, I have a perfectly good link leger in the water (already caught a fish) and I will have a perfectly good float set up,as well, not worked out how that will be weighted yet but I am sure it will be hardly any different to what I used before.
No benefits? "to me" considerable. I have described all of them already.

The only loss which no one has noticed yet is detecting lift bites, I will probably overcome that by having a tell-tale shot near the hook, I didn't really want to do that as I wanted to retain the considerable benefit of having a main line without anything attached to it, no knots ect just a float stop but I will see.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

It might be a good idea to accept that people will interpret a thread in any way they choose, and - once the discussion broadens - not take it personally if others take a view on a subject that's different to your own. On an open forum, beyond the original post, you lose ownership of a subject and it becomes everyone's discussion. Thanks for posting - it was food for thought.
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[@Clive]

No, I am not/was trying to achieve increased sensitivity, I am trying to achieve convenience ease and more time. my question was "was it more or less sensitive or the same" as I could not work that out and I was curious. Now I know it will be less sensitive, that's all I wanted to know. Does it make any difference, no, my understanding it will be marginal, I have said I am not a perfectionist, a pleasure angler just trying to maximise my limited time with a bait in the water. I will not be fishing any different to what I have done before, I have a perfectly good link leger in the water (already caught a fish) and I will have a perfectly good float set up,as well, not worked out how that will be weighted yet but I am sure it will be hardly any different to what I used before.
No benefits? "to me" considerable. I have described all of them already.

The only loss which no one has noticed yet is detecting lift bites, I will probably overcome that by having a tell-tale shot near the hook, I didn't really want to do that as I wanted to retain the considerable benefit of having a main line without anything attached to it, no knots ect just a float stop but I will see.

The downsides to your rig include that you have effectively bulk shotted the float and therefore left little option for shots further down to control the bait. If you reduce the shots on your link to add to the line below it then it will prove to be insufficient to use as a ledger. Also, when I am using a float ledger almost all of the shotting capacity is being carried by the float with extra weight, sufficient to anchor the float, being on the bottom. I can often simply slide a Catherine weight on between the two lowest shots and extend the depth. If I switch to a ledger from float fishing, the float and all the shot, except the lowest one are removed and a Catherine lead slipped on above the shot.

 

[no-one in particular]

The downsides to your rig include that you have effectively bulk shotted the float and therefore left little option for shots further down to control the bait. If you reduce the shots on your link to add to the line below it then it will prove to be insufficient to use as a ledger. Also, when I am using a float ledger almost all of the shotting capacity is being carried by the float with extra weight, sufficient to anchor the float, being on the bottom. I can often simply slide a Catherine weight on between the two lowest shots and extend the depth. If I switch to a ledger from float fishing, the float and all the shot, except the lowest one are removed and a Catherine lead slipped on above the shot.

I will have to look at the catherine weighs and the olivite ones, confess I have never used them,I will look at them sometime and see if it is a better way or maybe incorporate them into my end tackle in some way. My end tackle will not make a perfect float set up but I never had one anyway. I don't fish for silvers, use light 1.5lb lines and tiny hooks, floats dotted down to the ninth degree, not saying it is wrong, just not my type of fishing, 14, 12, 10 hooks and 4 or 5lb line and a good inch of float showing, I am generally after roach, bream, chub and tench and mullet occasionally. I don't mind catching small silvers as they can save a blank and a few bites can keep a session interesting, However I don't mind missing their bites except that they could be a decent fish now and then. All my floats are 1,2 or 3 bb's, all I have in my tackle box, usually 1 bb near the hook for lift bites, so the 3 bb link can convert easily enough to my float except for the tell tale bb near the hook.

 

[@Clive]

Same here. Bream, barbel, chub in 10 to 14 foot of water using a sliding float and stop knot. One Olivetti stopped by a rubber float stop then two small shot typically a 1 & 4 on the hook link to trot. To change to float / ledger I simply put a 4g to 6g Catherine lead between the shots and increase the depth. To change to a ledger rig I have to take the Olivetti off, undo the loop to loop hook link, slide the float and float stop off (sometimes this means cutting the loop off), re attach the hook link and slip a heavier Catherine lead of 10g to 12g between the two shots. Then I touch ledger or use a bobbin.

 

[no-one in particular]

Same here. Bream, barbel, chub in 10 to 14 foot of water using a sliding float and stop knot. One Olivetti stopped by a rubber float stop then two small shot typically a 1 & 4 on the hook link to trot. To change to float / ledger I simply put a 4g to 6g Catherine lead between the shots and increase the depth. To change to a ledger rig I have to take the Olivetti off, undo the loop to loop hook link, slide the float and float stop off (sometimes this means cutting the loop off), re attach the hook link and slip a heavier Catherine lead of 10g to 12g between the two shots. Then I touch ledger or use a bobbin.

Sort of follow that, I am sure it is all good but all I have to do is attach a float, might adjust the link distance, I am float fishing good enough for a decent fish well, hopefully. I have arthritis in two fingers and when it is cold just having to attach a float appeals to me. But as I said still experimental and open to suggestions so thanks, I am noting what your saying.

 

[no-one in particular]

It might be a good idea to accept that people will interpret a thread in any way they choose, and - once the discussion broadens - not take it personally if others take a view on a subject that's different to your own. On an open forum, beyond the original post, you lose ownership of a subject and it becomes everyone's discussion. Thanks for posting - it was food for thought.
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The only choice is how can we interpret this thread anyway anyhow so we can dismiss what this bloke is saying.