nicepix
Well-known member
And you have a good point!
My best barbel bait over the last few weeks has been crust, only problem is I've been trying to catch some chub
And I thought that your secret was to carry a very small pair of forceps
Give up those secrets!
- Thread starter Graham Elliott 1
- Start date
And I thought that your secret was to carry a very small pair of forceps
Keith M
Well-known member
Most of my winter Barbel have been caught on Monster Crab pellets coated with a Spicey Fishmeal paste so as the paste dissolves it leaves a flavour trail leading up to the hookbait; or firm and very lean spicey flavoured luncheonmeat; but the flavourings I use are not ones that are chemically produced like some flavourings are because I am convinced that artificial chemical flavourings can taste totally different to fish in different water Ph levels.
NB:I also have quite a few Barbel trotting just above the bed using fresh maggot and caster which I don't usually flavour so I'm convinced that they often feed by sight as well as by taste.
NB:I also have quite a few Barbel trotting just above the bed using fresh maggot and caster which I don't usually flavour so I'm convinced that they often feed by sight as well as by taste.
Last edited:
The bad one
Well-known member
If they are on, they are on! And that thick they'll take anything. If they're not then nowt will tempt them. Go chub fishing!
laguna
Well-known member
if flavoured didn't work you might as well fish with bare hooks. natural flavours obviously do work hence the need to change baits to see what they're havin' on the day... bread, cheese, meat, maggot (live or dead), lob worm and choppy (god knows what that smells like to a fish?), sweet corn etc. all natural 'smelling' baits. Whenever you hear anglers state flavours do not work for them its probably because of the 'artificial additives' they use.
Yes I do keep banging on about this but, add an artificial additive and it will mask the natural smell of baits of that I am certain. Curiosity is what will attract fish to a artificial (if it hasnt already blown), fish may be stupid but their instinct plays a big part in avoiding capture - nutrients are what they want.
As to whats new? [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerite"]Glycerite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Yes I do keep banging on about this but, add an artificial additive and it will mask the natural smell of baits of that I am certain. Curiosity is what will attract fish to a artificial (if it hasnt already blown), fish may be stupid but their instinct plays a big part in avoiding capture - nutrients are what they want.
As to whats new? [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerite"]Glycerite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
I honestly believe after fishing for carp from the late sixties to the mid nineties that all this blown bait theory is in the mind . Why is it that carp are still caught on bread maggots worms corn chicks peanuts tigers and many other baits that have been used and caught carp and still catch carp have not blown. I do not want to argue over this because I honestly believe after many years that the blown bait syndrome is of the anglers own making. I can still go out and catch on baits I and others were using on and off for thirty five years. I have seen anglers have mental breakdowns over worrying about a bait blowing because their catch rate had dropped. When fish are on the feed they will eat when they are not it does not matter what you put in front of them they will not eat it. There are no magic answers and never has been nor ever will be . The bait companies are laughing all the way to the bank.
Last edited:
laguna
Well-known member
My point exactly, a natural bait, or one made of natural ingredients will not blow (or is less likely to given a choice). I have every confidence in a natural baits ability to catch ANY species and zero confidence if it has been adulterated with artificial additives.
Fished side by side, a natural food bait will out-fish a poor bait every time.
Graham Elliott 1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2002
- Messages
- 1,710
- Reaction score
- 0
Some really interesting views to debate.
And quite an interesting break between "natural" bait, and maybe enhancers and "artificial" enhancers.
I wonder if my green lipped mussel extract is both or either?
Personally I have no doubt that adding a "flavour" to a bait thats not maybe a natural food item eg Boiles, pellets, paste, can give me an advantage in coloured/colder water??
Laguna. you said
Fished side by side, a natural food bait will out-fish a poor bait every time.
What if the poor bait has been flavoured/enhanced in some way.
Graham
And quite an interesting break between "natural" bait, and maybe enhancers and "artificial" enhancers.
I wonder if my green lipped mussel extract is both or either?
Personally I have no doubt that adding a "flavour" to a bait thats not maybe a natural food item eg Boiles, pellets, paste, can give me an advantage in coloured/colder water??
Laguna. you said
Fished side by side, a natural food bait will out-fish a poor bait every time.
What if the poor bait has been flavoured/enhanced in some way.
Graham
nicepix
Well-known member
My view is that additives do not mask anything. They simply add to the cocktail of scent in my opinion.
In another life I studied scent relating to police dogs, much of which is relevant to other animals with enhanced scent recognition. Most of our coarse and sea fish fall into this category. If you try to mask the smell of cannabis with a strong smelling substance the trained drugs dog will still detect and indicate the scent of cannabis. Researchers studying pollack found that their favourite food item was clams. Even when they tainted the clams with creosote and diesel oil the pollack still searched out and ate the clams.
In fishing terms additives may enhance a bait by adding a flavour or scent but you are unlikely to repel a hungry fish if the bait is tainted with a substance they don't particularly like. What can happen though in some circumstances that fish can and do recognise scents, colours, shapes, etc. with danger after being caught or hooked. But that is another subject.
In another life I studied scent relating to police dogs, much of which is relevant to other animals with enhanced scent recognition. Most of our coarse and sea fish fall into this category. If you try to mask the smell of cannabis with a strong smelling substance the trained drugs dog will still detect and indicate the scent of cannabis. Researchers studying pollack found that their favourite food item was clams. Even when they tainted the clams with creosote and diesel oil the pollack still searched out and ate the clams.
In fishing terms additives may enhance a bait by adding a flavour or scent but you are unlikely to repel a hungry fish if the bait is tainted with a substance they don't particularly like. What can happen though in some circumstances that fish can and do recognise scents, colours, shapes, etc. with danger after being caught or hooked. But that is another subject.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2004
- Messages
- 3,906
- Reaction score
- 4
Definitely right about sniffer dogs. A pal of mine has a mate who is / was one of people running the police or Customs sniffer dog team at Heathrow Airport. This fella has a spaniel, I believe, which sometimes goes home with him, as his children love the dog. Taking his girls for a walk to a sweetshop in a southern coastal town whilst on holiday the other year, the dog went barmy as it went past a particular house....
Mobile phone call made....
Full-blown growing house busted!
Keen nose.
Mobile phone call made....
Full-blown growing house busted!
Keen nose.
Graham Elliott 1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2002
- Messages
- 1,710
- Reaction score
- 0
Nicepix said
What can happen though in some circumstances that fish can and do recognise scents, colours, shapes, etc. with danger after being caught or hooked. But that is another subject.
Agree with that. Often a changed bait shape will work when the standard size/shape hasn't. Having great success of late with very small baits. (the ones other anglers use as loosefeed with their larger hookbait.
Graham
What can happen though in some circumstances that fish can and do recognise scents, colours, shapes, etc. with danger after being caught or hooked. But that is another subject.
Agree with that. Often a changed bait shape will work when the standard size/shape hasn't. Having great success of late with very small baits. (the ones other anglers use as loosefeed with their larger hookbait.
Graham
laguna
Well-known member
Dogs are a great example, I dont know how good their sense of smell is, but its certainly better than humans. Fish smell via chemoreceptors and olfactory and I suspect they can detect much better than dogs can, evidence leads me to believe that fish can also detect what vitimins, proteins and enzymes are present and minerals too for that matter. Salt (sodium chloride), an electrolyte being a good example.
Most 'flavours' are synthetic artificial's, made with alcohol. They will attract fish by curiosity but there is nothing natural about them whatsoever which begs the question; why they will take a artificial bait? As stated; a fish will eat anything because it can detect what might remain of those things it desires but given a choice will eat a natural bait made from real-food items. If anglers constantly feed them **** they will have no choice but to risk eating it (against its better instinctive judgement).
My point is; artificial flavours will mask a scent because alcohol denatures proteins and kills enzymes. Some baits might survive the adulteration but for the most part its the nutrients they desire. Minerals are not adulterated by heat from processing or alcohol but everything else would be.
Graham, I think a poor bait enhanced with a real-food flavouring will increase its attractiveness. A boilie with all its flavours locked in will benefit from a good glug to increases it flavour/palatability and solubility. On the other hand, a artificial additive is an example of a poor bait imo.
Most 'flavours' are synthetic artificial's, made with alcohol. They will attract fish by curiosity but there is nothing natural about them whatsoever which begs the question; why they will take a artificial bait? As stated; a fish will eat anything because it can detect what might remain of those things it desires but given a choice will eat a natural bait made from real-food items. If anglers constantly feed them **** they will have no choice but to risk eating it (against its better instinctive judgement).
My point is; artificial flavours will mask a scent because alcohol denatures proteins and kills enzymes. Some baits might survive the adulteration but for the most part its the nutrients they desire. Minerals are not adulterated by heat from processing or alcohol but everything else would be.
Graham, I think a poor bait enhanced with a real-food flavouring will increase its attractiveness. A boilie with all its flavours locked in will benefit from a good glug to increases it flavour/palatability and solubility. On the other hand, a artificial additive is an example of a poor bait imo.
Tee-Cee
Senior Member
As far as I'm concerned flavours are okay, but I refuse to pay staggering sums of money for those offered by bait suppliers in the form of glugs etc. I am not 'tight' with money and could easily afford to try what's on offer but I like to wander the spice racks of Indian grocers, supermarkets etc etc and come up with things to try. In so doing I don't spend lots of dosh on stuff the might not work and I feel I've made some effort to enhance my fishing.....
Today I was chatting to our bailiff and he was telling me he's had pretty good results with barbel using a fried mixture of different spices such as tumeric, chilli etc etc with which he coats his meat baits. Cheap and effective - a good combination IMHO
I accept I might be 'missing out' on the shop bought stuff but that's my loss......................
Today I was chatting to our bailiff and he was telling me he's had pretty good results with barbel using a fried mixture of different spices such as tumeric, chilli etc etc with which he coats his meat baits. Cheap and effective - a good combination IMHO
I accept I might be 'missing out' on the shop bought stuff but that's my loss......................
nicepix
Well-known member
If I remember correctly a dog's sense of smell is around 10,000 to 100,000 times more sensitive than man's dependent on the dog's breed. Although there are problems in calculating this as there is at present no scientific instrument capable of measuring a dog's sense of smell. The calculations were based on the number of receptors in each species or breed.
Fish were around 1/3 as sensitive as a dog's sense, again dependent on species. Sight hunters have less need for an acute sense of smell. Eels and catfish had the best sense of smell, trout less so.
Because of the enhanced sensitivity it is difficult for us to comprehend what an animal can actually detect by smell alone. For example we might smell the garlic in a pizza but little else. A dog could detect the smell of each ingredient, the cooking oil, the cardboard packaging, the delivery man's scent to the extent of being able to pick him out of a line of people, the scent of his car, people he has touched or been close to and much more. It is like us looking at a black and white photo whereas an animal sees the full colour picture.
Because of this enhanced sensitivity animals can detect certain elements in a product or natural bait and are programmed to seek some of these things out at certain times of year. Their diet will be different dependent on what vitamins are required - for reproduction for example or building up fat for winter.
Fish were around 1/3 as sensitive as a dog's sense, again dependent on species. Sight hunters have less need for an acute sense of smell. Eels and catfish had the best sense of smell, trout less so.
Because of the enhanced sensitivity it is difficult for us to comprehend what an animal can actually detect by smell alone. For example we might smell the garlic in a pizza but little else. A dog could detect the smell of each ingredient, the cooking oil, the cardboard packaging, the delivery man's scent to the extent of being able to pick him out of a line of people, the scent of his car, people he has touched or been close to and much more. It is like us looking at a black and white photo whereas an animal sees the full colour picture.
Because of this enhanced sensitivity animals can detect certain elements in a product or natural bait and are programmed to seek some of these things out at certain times of year. Their diet will be different dependent on what vitamins are required - for reproduction for example or building up fat for winter.
geoffmaynard
Content Editor
Ever tried sniffing something under water? Smell is for a gas environment, like air. In liquid, taste is the crucial thing. Same thing? No. Take a coin out of your pocket and sniff it. Then taste it. :w
Good point but doesnt a fish breathe water? Perhaps its a combination of taste and smell.
nicepix
Well-known member
There are similarities between the senses of taste and smell. I can't remember the details as I was concentrating on the scent recognition side of things.
To be able to smell something there must be humidity. Animals have a system of adding humidity to enhance the scent. Obviously in water this is unnecessary. But some fish have barbels used for tasting things and some fish have nasal ducts used for smelling things.
Graham Elliott 1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2002
- Messages
- 1,710
- Reaction score
- 0
There's a view that fish can't smell anything.......it's all taste.
Interesting such a preference for spicy flavours.
5 spice, tumeric, curry powder, black pepper etc. and my own favourite Cajun spice.
Wonder why these fairly pungent flavours work? And if thats so, presume an enhanced flavour, whether natural or synthetic, added to a low flavour bait will work?
After all, within the food products we all buy in the shops, a lot of the flavours are synthetically produced.
Graham
Interesting such a preference for spicy flavours.
5 spice, tumeric, curry powder, black pepper etc. and my own favourite Cajun spice.
Wonder why these fairly pungent flavours work? And if thats so, presume an enhanced flavour, whether natural or synthetic, added to a low flavour bait will work?
After all, within the food products we all buy in the shops, a lot of the flavours are synthetically produced.
Graham
geoffmaynard
Content Editor
The two senses are related - but only related. If taste needs to be related to anything, and I'm not sure it does, then it's more likely to be the sense of touch to discover the texture of the item.
The smell of a bait has buggerall to do with anything in my not so humble opinion.
The smell of a bait has buggerall to do with anything in my not so humble opinion.
B
binka
Guest
That prompts some interesting thoughts on glugged baits Geoff, such as pellets for instance which links something that is being discussed in the cheese paste thread that's currently running about solubility.
There's the obvious taste factor with a glugged bait but could it maybe also be that glugged baits, having been softened at least on the outer surface by the soak, appear to the fish as a softer, more digestible food item which also brings in the touch factor to discover this?