Great Ouse Barbel

[GrahamM]

I do believe you. Your message just gave me the opportunity to get something off my chest.

It's the person/people who are preventing the news from being enjoyed by all of us who are at fault. It is they who are helping to breed this silly, selfish, clandestine culture in fishing.

Okay, give members the news first, but to hold it back for several weeks - February did you say? - is just stupid.

What's to be gained by that?

 

[Philip Inzani]

Boy oh boy Graham you obviously have this one close to your heart!!!!!!
Got to agree with you about people wanting to appear as if they are strong and silent but actually want everyone to know what they have caught although I am not sure it would actually drive me to puke. (that did make me laugh!)
I suppose I can really only comment for myself and the problem I am faced with is that although I would want to shout my mouth off if I caught a good fish from an unknown location. I would not want to turn the place into a circus! I cannot be the only one who thinks like that.

Going back to your original point about the Ouse repeat captures?. Ok so if we all agree that ultimate size is not important, its where it came from that is just as important, why is it that I have NEVER come across an angler who when he states his personal bests also states where each came from ? It just does not happen does it! ?. Maybe its not just the press thats obsessed with size!
I know I am sort of playing devil advocate here but how about the point regarding chasing known fish ?well are we not all guilty of that to some extent ? I agree that a massive fish from the Dove, Nidd, Dewent or Kennet for example will have my ears pricking up BUT are these due to people chasing known fish? is it just the beginnings of a new Adams Mill on a smaller scale??where do you draw the line ?
Unfortunately fishing is growing to be as much against other anglers as it is against the fish so perhaps we are also guilty of underestimating the Ouse captures and its easy to say "well it was bound to be huge it came from the Ouse". I bet the guys there have a set of problems many of us cannot even imagine.

It really comes down to Pauls point about what makes a fish hard to catch. If we can decide that then we can give merit accordingly.

 

[Carp Angler]

It's the usual "southern stillwater" mentality.
Bloke catches big fish, everyone denies knowledge, news is leaked, captor instead of 5 mins of fame, manages to string it out for a couple of weeks and then we're presented with the fish and complete lies about the venue.
A Berkshire gravel pit,
a northern river,
If the rags didn't make heroes of these selfish sods then we would all treat them with the contempt that they deserve.

angry bloke departs stage left to cool down and grab a smoke and a coffee.......

 

[GrahamM]

Philip, you're right, I do feel very strongly about this subject.

And keeping quiet about the exact location is fine. I'd like a quid for every time I've said that I caught a big bream from a Cheshire mere. The difference is though, the fish really did come from a Cheshire mere. I once exposed a lie on the British Record Fish List that was to do with a fish being claimed as coming from one county when even the Record Fish Committee knew full well it had come from a different county.

The point I've made is that it's enough for me to able to learn that a massive barbel has been caught from the river Dove. Or from the river Severn. Of course, with a big river like the Severn it would be nice to know if it was upper, middle or lower. But I don't expect to be told which swim or even which stretch. But I do expect to be told the truth, no matter how vague that truth is.

If the captor can't possibly even name which river or which county, then just say so - don't lie about it!

Yes, I state where my Personal Bests have come from. Perhaps you mean that those who have caught PB's from the Great Ouse's of this world don't state where they caught them.

I have no valid criticism about chasing known fish. That's something for the individual to decide, and if that's what he enjoys then good luck to him. I chase known fish on a well known French carp lake, but my only motive is that I so much enjoy fishing the place. What I do think is daft is chasing known fish in known swims and then trying to kid the angling world that you've done something special.

Where do you draw the line you ask. You draw it where your own ideals lie, and they're different for each one of us. And it doesn't mean that my ideal is any better than anyone elses, providing I don't kid myself or anyone else that I've done something special if I've chosen the easier option.

You say that they probably have a set of problems many of us can't even imagine. I would say you're right; where I've been battering my way through vegetation to find the Dove they've probably been battering each other to get to the best swim. Okay, I'm exaggerating slightly.

Decide what makes a fish hard to catch? That has a different answer every day. But few thinking anglers would deny that, for instance, a 13lb river Dove barbel is more meritorious than a 17lb Great Ouse barbel.

That's the point.

 

[Andy Davis]

I totally agree with most if not all of the comments made here, If I did catch a record I'd face the problem of and I quote "although I would want to shout my mouth off if I caught a good fish from an unknown location. I would not want to turn the place into a circus!"
On the section of Kennet I fish the biggest I have heard about is an 8lb....would that even get a mention in the press!!

 

[Philip Inzani]

Graham
Just to clarify about the PBs I was talking generally rather than specifically about Barbel. For example ask the average guy what his PB Pike is and he will say 23 pounds 12oz. I dont think the majority will then go on to qualify it by then saying "oh but that was from a trout reservoir, I also has a 22 pound 8oz from a gravel pit" My point was that Anglers are obsessed with size and this is reflected in how the press report things.

I agree with most of the things you say except your point about people should not kid you that they have done something special when they have chosen the easier option. What exactly is the easier option? How do you measure it ? Are you saying fishing Adams Mill is the easier option than fishing for an unkown fish from say the Dove? I bet the guys catching the Barbel at Adams Mill are working their socks off for those fish, I bet most of the time its not even fun, where as the guy on the Dove is probably having a (relatively) nice time of it in good surroundings, getting up at reasonable hours to be by the river and not having to race to swims, queue up shoulder to shoulder with other anglers and then having to pack up each evening to face the same rat race the next day. I am not saying the guy on the Dove has it easy ?he could be a mile from the nearest double for all he knows, but which is harder? I dont think either you or I can say and for that reason I think the Ouse guys have every right to shout their mouths off when they actually catch something and then let the readers decide how they rate it.
.
Just following on from that you say "few thinking anglers would deny that, for instance, a 13lb river Dove barbel is more meritorious than a 17lb Great Ouse barbel" Yes I agree, ask them publicly and most will say the Dove fish because thats the hip and cool thing to say but then give the same people the choice of which they would rather catch and I think you could have a very different set of answers especially if it was done in private! ??..Note I said the majority, some (I suspect you for example) would genuinely rather catch the Dove fish. Me ? ??sorry its the Ouse fish, all 17 pound of it.

Final point, where would you stand on an unknown 17 pound Ouse Barbel compared to a 13 pound Dove fish Any different for you ?

Anyway better stop typing before I alienate myself forever! Hope you take it in the right spirit as just an alternative viewpoint.

 

[Carp Angler]

Alienate youtself further?
You live in France, what's more alien than that?

You coming to DDI in October Phil?


I'll show you all with a 17 from the Dane......

 

[Neil Wayte]

Having just read right through this post the first thing I want to say is Wow what a fish.Now everybody is going to say but it came from the Great Ouse sorry but so what it's a hell of a fish.There is not much said about putting some of the big known carp under constant pressure and when Mary comes out at a new record we won't have the same reaction Ie but it's a wrasbury fish.
I only hope that with the record now being 19lb people do not "think down" their own venues because they only have fish to 13lb.Every thing is relevent.

 

[Carp Angler]

Neil
I think the venting of emotions here is because this barbel thing is rapidly becoming like the carp circus.
Does anybody really care about two-tone or Mary anymore?
Last time Mary came out he certainly didn't get IFC, I think it was something like page 4 or 5 in AM.

I don't know why everyone barks on about Wraysbury being hard anyway.
The fish certainly aren't cagey or shy and now that everyone uses boats I'm suprised at the lack of success of most of them.

 

[Paul Williams]

Neil, i think we are all in agreement it is a terrific fish but....in all honesty how many of us when reading about them either conciencly or sub conciecly (can't find the dict!!) think oh it's another Ouse fish? and like it or not these fish as special as they are are demeaning other waters......i often walk river banks and chat to other anglers many a time i have been told they have a 10 or even 12lb barbel in the net, when i have been shown the fish they would have struggled to make 8 !!! it's not that the anglers were lieing just that the rags have turned the starting weight for a decent barbel to 10lb!!!! sad but true!! the other thing that niggles me is the Hype that surrounds it all, they are magnificent fish why not shout about it!!! you caught a huge chub last week, you shared it with us, i would have to do the same!!

Philip, i can hand on heart say i would rather take a " new" 14+ from one of my own favourite rivers (eg Lugg)than the record from the Ouse, i fully understand why the guy's on the ouse fish there and i can't knock em but a new fish from a new water thats what turns me on!!

 

[Mike Fidler]

I agree with what your all saying, but it's local to me so I will defend it a bit. The river great Ouse is not some commercial fishery it's a great big bendy river! The phenomenon that is Adams mill is a one off. The fish are locked into this stretch of a bout 2 miles by weirs either end of the stretch which prevents them from buggering off. What is amazing is the size these fish are obtaining and because of repeat captures this is well documented. I don't want to fish this stretch and never will but it's still a fantastic bit of river with nice scenery and the fish are still wild even though they are locked into the stretch. There are even better parts to this river though and the fish grow very big throughout. I'm willing to bet my fish last summer had never been caught before and I'm hoping for more this summer. If I invited you to Turvey or Olney to go barbel fishing for big fish that have never been caught before would you turn it down?

 

[Paul Williams]

Mike, no i WON'T!! it is very difficult to put ones feelings into print without it sounding like knocking but that wasn't the aim......Mike i have never fished the Ouse but i have heard conflicting ideas, amongst them is the barbels ability (or lack of it) to move out of Adams mill...fish known to have been caught at Adams are then reported as caught from a different length at a later capture, this is confusing!! or is it just a ploy to enhance the capture? and if so even the guy's fishing that stretch feel a little uncomfortable don't they?.............Mike i have just been told to get my butt off that lump of plastic!!!! speak soon!!!!

 

[Mike Fidler]

Paul, the fish was released lower down, only explanation. As far as i'm aware MKAA are as pleased as they are embarresed by it all. The landowners are very annoyed about the constant noise, bother caused by fishermen and breaking the no night fishing rule.

 

[MARK FRAME]

Im glad to see that someone has mentioned the no night fishing rule i USED to belong to the club that had rights on the opposite bank and if we were caught night fishing it was an instant ban mind you im going back to the early nineties and between three of us who used to fish together we had it all to ourselves.
gradually more and more people came on to it so we gave it up and found another couple of empty stretches so far weve had barbel to 10.5 and my personal best chub at 5.11
i prefer peace and quite when im fishing records dont really appeal to me(not that im likly to break one anyway)but with the advent of high protien baits in carp fishing it was surely obvious we as anglers were going to use them for other species eventually weve all seen bloated carp in the papers next were gonna get bloated barbel
or
maybe its down to global warming and fish are just getting bigger

 

[Carp Angler]

I saw the picture of the 19 today in the paper and it was fat.
It's definitely been scoffing something,
I presume it was HNV baits as I'm led to believe that crays aren't that nutritious.
Well what could be as nutritious and balanced as a bait with pre-digested ingredients, enhanced vitamins and minerals and a protein content of about 75% ?
You certainly won't find anything as good as that in nature.

 

[John Tait]

Quote - "You certainly won't find anything as good as that in nature" - unquote.

I don't disagree, I firmly believe in the HNV bait principle - but just wait for the responses !!


Jonty

 

[GrahamM]

A prominent barbel angler who fishes there says he has no doubt that angler's HNV baits are causing the phenomenal growth rate.

He reckons that such baits are being absolutely piled in with this express purpose in mind as well as to compete with other anglers.

He may come on the forum to tell you this, and more, himself.

 

[andrew jackson]

Size matters! Stating the obvious admittedly. But is this not,the very essence of specimen angling? After all who would like to read about me, catching a half pound roach? It could be a P.B. or a venue record. But the cold reality is, nobody else would be the slightest bit interested.Big fish are big news and on a national stage, like it or not,these Great Ouse fish are the bench mark.
This is not a new phenomenon and particular venues stand out in the history of most of our fish species. May I be bold enough to suggest That this is only an issue because Barbel are your thing. Do you not get fed up with the constant reports of huge southern Carp, allmost to the exclusion of thier poorer northern cousins? Yes beware my freinds the green eyed monster comes in many guises, and some are very subtle indeed.

 

[bob saunders]

Hi to all,
Im a little confused, If Steve Pope dosent rate the Ouse barbel why then is he at Adams Milll fishing for them??

In the past he has slagged everyone off that has fished there and rubbished the barbel there, now he would have us believe that he never meant what he said, is he having a laugh.

I can only suspect that he is desperate to have a big fish,if the Severn rates so high why is he not cocentrarting on that river?

Always remember Steve your words will always come back to haunt you as some of us have long memories.

 

[Steve Boulton]

What concerns me about the ouse fish is when they peak in weight and start to drop back what then?.No longer huge enough to fish for,another stretch filled whith bait and dismissed when the same target is reached?.Fish welfare,i have my doubts.