I think I may give the banana a go. I have been experimenting with dosing the bait with Lo Salt and it's a bit early to say if it makes a positive difference.
All I have really discovered so far is that they don't hate it and my catches have been better than the anglers within my sight.
You might be onto something there Ray, as you say; at least they dont hate it?
When we had our little discussion a while back you mentioned Losalt which you quite rightly said contains Potassium and then I did a little asking around.. see what I found below in my next response to Greenie
Thanks for the very full response Chris,
Your point about 'change baits' is well made. For example - if I have Muesli for breakfast - I feel it's quite reasonable to have Pie n Chips for dinner, whereas if I have a Bacon Butty for brekkers, I'd avoid eating Pie n Chips and might seek out a Salad (almost a capital offence in Wigan!)
Yeah I know it's anthropomorphising - but it makes the point!
Your point about the relative ionic K v Na attraction is amplified in Rays note about LoSalt where c.60% of the Sodium ions are replaced by Potassium in a readily soluble form.
Next step: LoSalt dosed hair-rigged banana chunks?!?!
uke:
Thanks for the help lads! :thumbs:
Potassium citrate (the potassium naturally found in fruits and vegetables) is probably better/safer than potassium chloride found in losalt.
When Ray first mentioned losalt a few weeks ago I did a little digging around and was told it likely contains potassium chloride (unconfirmed).
If true then I would please urge caution, at least for the time being... Potassium chloride is used in heart surgery and lethal injection to stop the heart!
It may well be safe for humans in low oral dosage though fish are more susceptible to these things, I don't have any data to hand on its safety yet so it needs looking into but I'm loathed to risk my own tank fish in order to find out.
Losalt also contains 30%+ salt (sodium Chloride) to counter its weak, unsalty flavour and thaumatin added to reduce bitterness.
- according to Wiki Thaumatin is an intensely sweet-tasting protein (about 100,000 times as sweet as sucrose). On that basis one grain would be equivalent to a full bag of sugar!
Salt has always been regarded as being attractive to fish and recommended as a good additive for our baits.
I proposed last year on this very forum suggesting that all minerals have a role to play in attraction - not just the sodium in salt which is made of two components sodium + chloride.
Chloride bound to sodium has a neutral aspect and in solution; chlorine negative and sodium positive will more or less cancel one another out (NaCl, representing equal proportions of sodium and chlorine). Its only when they are in solution (water) that they can be detected by fish.
Just to substantiate what I said earlier regards Potassium being more electropositive than Sodium:
Sodium has 3 electron shells and one outer electron.
Potassium also has one outer electron but it is in a 4th shell, further away from the attractive pull of its nucleus, so potassium loses its outer electron more easily than sodium and is therefore more electropositive.
Anyone understanding the chemistry will confirm this.
That's a cracking post once again Chris.
You mention something which I've heavily subscribed to myself over the last few months, namely solubility but I can't help questioning what I see as contradictions whereby I can fish with a soft, soluble bait such as bread and catch plenty of fish yet still do the same with hard pellets that have barely had time to hit the deck before they are taken?
I've tried cross referencing solubility with digestability in my own mind but I'm really not clever enough to come to a reasonable conclusion yet it all seems to work in practice?
I guess I should be happy things work but I'm struggling on this one?
I dont think any of us are really that clever where fish are concerned Steve, they sure do take some figuring out thats for sure!
mg:
What I am certain about though is that digestibility or palatability for that matter doesn't takes preference, what I mean by that is that fish will first be attracted by 'smell' or by sight and then feed, they have the ability to differentiate between certain amino acids (L-types generally evoke a positive response), and various chemical signals in the water and will, under certain circumstances; either take it or refuse it according to their needs - this will change from day to day/hour to hour. If they had a choice of a variety of different baits (as they mostly do on commercials) they would more likely become preoccupied on something nutritious like maggot, worm, corn or pellets rather than some doctored artificially flavoured man-made concoction....
As to the solubility factor; pellets are soluble, the amino acids are ever present in their smell even to us humans they don't half pong mate!
Bread is a bloody good bait but then I suppose it depends on your quarry, if it were chub then no doubt bread is arguably better (best?) whereas when I fish for barbel i might use meat or pellets...
When I think about something being soluble in the water I tend to think of a bait which has the potential to be most attractive i.e. paste is more soluble than a hard pellet. that washed out look tends to catch more fish than a fresh cast one same goes for liquid additives that readily mixes and disperses etc.
One further subject of interest (to me anyway) are microscopic organisms both live/biotic/biota and detritus.
In some respects these are far more attractive than some amino acids, its probably the reason why bread (yeast), cheese (bacteria) predigested/malted seeds & legumes (yeast+bacteria+enzymatic processes) are so successful when incorporated in our baits. Of course if they are masked (adulterated) with artificial flavours, acids or alkali chemicals (the usual man-made nice smelling stuff), heat, alcohol etc. then they will loose their natural attraction - the single biggest reason why some have no faith in flavours perhaps?
Anyway, none of this tells us how to single out those baby eyes (crucians) but at least my mate Al knows; 2" over depth laid on banana SAC juice soaked skretting's pellets - two rod lengths out! :w
