Guides on Top or Below

[Gerry Castles]

Some would interpret my threads as 'having a big mouth', but thanks anyway Charlie. With a brand new 10 weight Redington Titanium to christen, a decent fish on the fly would be nice, it's about time the Yare threw up another good fly caught pike. See you soon and a Happy New Year

 

[Chris Bishop]

What's a Redington - thgought it was a type of terrier...

 

[Gerry Castles]

Oh my God are they sending me a dog ?

 

[Jeremy Airey]

Hi Gerry
Just hope its a good 'retriever', woof bloody woof.
As a point of info I'm sure Badger reels are made by Banax, just have different 'cosmetics' and price. The multipliers also look the same as the 'Burt Rozeimier(?)' range sold by Sovereign Superbaits for a lot more money, cosmetics aside.
Gerry do you use 'super smoothie' drag washers as 8lb of drag pressure seems an awful lot of pressure especially with smaller 6500/7000 size star drag reels, 8 lbs is about what I would use on an IFGA 30 outfit.
I measured the ammount of drag I apply on my jerkbait outfits and it slips with around 3lb (initial) pull and 2.5lb (ish) with the rod well bent.
Am I doing something wrong here? I know I don't mess about landing any fish and do use a lot of 'thumb' when playing said fish but 8lbs seems an awful lot of pressure to me.
Happy new year
Jeremy

 

[Gerry Castles]

Hello Jeremy, I think you're absolutely right re the reels, Banax, Badger, Marado, they all look suspiciously like the same stuff. Probably all badge engineered from the same factory, however there seems to be quite a price difference between the Banax and the Marado for example so it's worth shopping around. The drag on my Scorpions are usually set at about 3 or 4lbs but roughly double that on my bigger reels, notably ABU 6600LDs now and yes the clutches are super smooth, but then that's the advantage of lever drags and I was very fortunate to get these reels with better than factory, uprated clutches. Prior to that I used Shimano TLD5s which were incredibly smooth but lacked level winds which made life a little tedious. The drags are set at about 8lb max on the ABUs but for trolling they are set back at about
2-3lb and then flipped up to max on the strike. Big advantage with this type of reel. My home water fishing is between boats and landing stages, also along the edges of cover on the river and broads.
I like to put the brakes on quickly. If I were fishing open or deeper water I would probably easing off the clutch somewhat. Perhaps a little overkill and possibly a legacy from my seafishing days but if you fish 65-80 braid then you can get away with it and since having a radical rethink about hooks, I rarely pull out of a fish.

 

[Chris Bishop]

I can't get my head round this. It's like going fishing with Einstein sometimes.

I can never get the drag right, because it loosens or tightens as I adjust the casting brake.

So I screw it up tightish and when I hook a fish slacken it off a bit.

This is my major problem, as like Chris H I always fish with the clutch screwed up tight on f/s reels, because let's face it you don't often hook a pike which actually goes very far.

 

[Gerry Castles]

It's all down to instinct, the more you use your ABU the more confident you'll get at making changes to the drag strength in the middle of playing a fish but you only need to give line if you are fishing light or ultralite. The last thing I do before every two or three casts is to pull the line to make sure it's 'about right' I know roughly what the drag is doing because I occasionally set it with a spring balance.

 

[Chris Bishop]

No disrespect intended, I regard Gerry as a highly competent angler. However, much of the content of this thread is starting to smack of what put me off learning to use a multiplier for so long.

I thought it just sounded so much more complicated and a fixed spool reel was just as good - and I could alredy use one of those, after all.

After a while, you start to realise their limitations. It took me a couple of years to get to this stage, but when I finally plucked up the courage to get a second hand multiplier and try it out, I was amazed just how user-friendly and simple it all is.

Part of the reason for the article was to show people just how easy it can be - ie if I can do it, and I'm fairly high up the league as far as being cack-handed goes, so can you.

I think the great thing about fishing is you can take it as seriously, or non-seriously as you like. Who's the best angler..? Probably the one who enjoys it the most in my book.

I worry some of this stuff could put people off having a great crack with a new method, by making them think it's all a bit over their heads, when in actual fact the basics of lure fishing are pretty straightforward.

It costs very little money to get half a dozen lures and give it a go. I wouldn't recommend anyone to sstart with a multiplier, ssimply because you might end up spending money on a specialised tool which ends up gathering dusst in the garage if you get cheesed off with it.

On the other hand if you do find lure fishing floats your boat, go for it because it's simple.

Dave Lumb's Ambassadeur site - haven't got the link offhand but you can reach it off the Pike and Predators site - has some brilliant no-nonsense, basic advice.

 

[Jeremy Airey]

Chris
Put simply I would say set the drag on your multiplier to the same amount or slightly more than you would if you were using a f/s on the same outfit, at least initially.
As Gerry says with experience and a greater 'feel' for the tackle you will almost certainly set the reel drag a lot harder.
A word from someone who learnt multipliers the hard way, on his own, try and find someone experienced for a bit of tutition it will save a few heartaches. Perhaps some of the guides offer this service, anybody living around York/Leeds area I would be happy to take them out for a day on the Ouse or give help (free of charge of course)
Gerry
Lever drag 6500s well 'chartreuse' with envy.
regards
Jeremy Airey

 

[Gerry Castles]

Chris, there's nothing complicated about it at all and I'm sorry if I gave that impression, you load up the reel to the right level with decent line, set the brake and end float and so long as you don't drastically change the weight of the lure you should not in theory need not touch anything else again except for the occasional pull on the string to see that all is well. But if you want to get the best out of a piece of kit that is more tweakable than a fixed spool reel then that option is there. The fact that different lure anglers operate with noticeably different parameters and styles would suggest that these reels are more flexible and user friendly than you would make them out to be. Now if you want 'complicated' then get a few pikers talking about their ideal dead or livebait rig. It takes 20 threads to decide which wire to use for the trace. I'm usually asleep half way through stopknots

 

[Chris Bishop]

Touche mate.

I'd also say I'm astonished how deeply some people go into what it is to me a fairly straightforward, black and white subject.

I hope we haven't put the guy off, the advice on here is usually first-class.

I agree multipliers are a lot more flexible, but that comes with expeerience and what Trev Salmon calls his educated thumb. I don't know if he coined the phrase or not but when he explained it to me, it probably summed the whole thing up better in two sentences than I could with 200 words.

I actually think lure fishing's a much steeper learning curve, because there's a lot more to it than bait fishing, which is basically about finding the fish, making sure you know immediately when one takes the bait and using strong enough gear to land it.

Three years into it and I'm sstill not at the point I can even catch something every time I do it.

What fascinates me at the moment is the number of half-hearted hits and follows I seem to be getting. I'd treble my catch rate if I could hook even half of them.

 

[Chris Bishop]

I explained that really badly as well. What I meant was it's easy to get so hung up on the mechanics of the rod/reel etc you lose sight of what's going on under the water, which is all that matters to the fish.

 

[Jeremy Airey]

Chris
I'm 20 years into it and still can't catch something or even get a take everytime I go out.
Oh, and those half hearted takes and follows are what keep me coming back for more.
Lure type permitting try a faster more aggressive retrieve style that can help even in rubbish cold weather like at the moment. Snow - yuk!
regards
Jeremy

 

[Chris Bishop]

I actually tried this yesterday - when all else failed - and caught half a dozen, all covered in leeches.