How do we deal will the itinerate traveller issues on our fisheries???

[@Clive]

Mr Williams I followed your advice and searched for court results relating to fishing without permissjon, as opposed to not having a rod licence. As you may recall the CPS declined to charge in an incident on a club water in South Yorkshire stating that it was not in the public interest. If CPS will not authorise charges then there is no chance of any prosecutions.

So far I have discovered just three prosecutions, two in 2015 and one this year. The first two concerned anglers fishing in designated wildlife reserves where Environmental authorities were involved. The latter was brought about by the National Wildlife Crime Unit working in another protected area of natural beauty.

I have not been able to locate one prosecution that was brought about by a club, syndicate or riprarian owner for the offence of fishing without permission. Perhaps you could post a link to the ones that you referded to?

 

[markcw]

Mr Williams I followed your advice and searched for court results relating to fishing without permissjon, as opposed to not having a rod licence. As you may recall the CPS declined to charge in an incident on a club water in South Yorkshire stating that it was not in the public interest. If CPS will not authorise charges then there is no chance of any prosecutions.

So far I have discovered just three prosecutions, two in 2015 and one this year. The first two concerned anglers fishing in designated wildlife reserves where Environmental authorities were involved. The latter was brought about by the National Wildlife Crime Unit working in another protected area of natural beauty.

I have not been able to locate one prosecution that was brought about by a club, syndicate or riprarian owner for the offence of fishing without permission. Perhaps you could post a link to the ones that you referded to?

WAA took someone to court and won for illegally fishing , This was a few weeks ago .

 

[jon atkinson]

WAA took someone to court and won for illegally fishing , This was a few weeks ago .

http://www.govwire.co.uk/news/envir...ers-in-cheshire-caught-flouting-the-law-51465 - I recall seeing that as well.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

I have to correct you regarding the Powers of Water Bailiffs ( EA Fishery Enforcement Officers) under the Salmon & Freshwater Fisheries Act 1975.
Such Officers only have powers of arrest as to dealing with anyone who commits an " Arrestable Offence" within the meaning of the Act as they are deemed Constables for the purpose acting in accordance with the relevant sections where offences are Arrestable.

That's already been clarified in #19, but thanks for adding the meat to the bones.

The Theft of Fish is not a matter they are authorised to act upon.

I hope this clears up any doubts amongst those that might want to argue differently on a bankside.

I wasn't referring to the theft of fish.

The Theft Act of 1968 applies where the act of fishing, in and of itself, is done without a permit. No fish need to have been taken - the theft is of fishing rights. This might sound somewhat arcane, but I have it on good authority that my club, Birmingham AA, has successfully prosecuted miscreants for theft of fishing rights, simply for the act of fishing on BAA waters without a permit (I think the details of such prosecutions are on the BAA website, but you might have to be a member to log in).

I'm sure these things are useful to know (my knowledge has definitely been improved by this thread), but I don't think it's wise for anyone, other than a bailiff, to argue (with anyone about anything) close to water. What I would suggest, is that everyone knows the name and number of their bailiff(s), so they can be contacted if suspicion is aroused, and a camera-phone to record the registration number of any vehicle that might be involved.
.

 

[The bad one]

The information on what is known as Theft of Fishing Rights is on this site, as I put it there some years ago. It's on the Angling Trust site. And was researched and drawn up by a PAC member and Ex-police officer Mark Leathwood.

 

[The bad one]

Oh and for those who like refences here's Mark Article https://pacgb.com/wpd/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Protect-Your-Fisheries.pdf

 

[Alan Whitty]

The bailiff in the case I mentioned in hdygo turned up,on his own in his stab vest,well sod that,these two would have ate him,plus you don't know how many others are lurking,death by bankstick is my sentence m'lud....we live in a terrible world today where the criminals get off too light,a speeding motorist often gets a bigger fine,very strange to me...

 

[no-one in particular]

The bailiff in the case I mentioned in hdygo turned up,on his own in his stab vest,well sod that,these two would have ate him,plus you don't know how many others are lurking,death by bankstick is my sentence m'lud....we live in a terrible world today where the criminals get off too light,a speeding motorist often gets a bigger fine,very strange to me...

Where I grew up there was a permanent guppy camp nearby, it was no go area even for some very hard gangs around back then, they weren't afraid of anyone but they were very very afraid of the gipsy. One bloke crossed them and they beat him half to death, he was in hospital for 6 months and the day before he came out they burnt his house down for good measure. There was a road which was the accepted demarcation line and no one went beyond it, even these hardened criminals gangs I knew back then. Personally I would stay well out of it, that sort of aggro is best left alone, certainly not for a few fish..

 

[chevin4]

The genuine Romani are ok in my experience in fact a fishing friend of mine is part Romani on his mother's side. He dispises the Didicoy with a passion as all Gypsies get tared with the same negativity by mainstream society.

 

[chevin4]

Where I grew up there was a permanent guppy camp nearby, it was no go area even for some very hard gangs around back then, they weren't afraid of anyone but they were very very afraid of the gipsy. One bloke crossed them and they beat him half to death, he was in hospital for 6 months and the day before he came out they burnt his house down for good measure. There was a road which was the accepted demarcation line and no one went beyond it, even these hardened criminals gangs I knew back then. Personally I would stay well out of it, that sort of aggro is best left alone, certainly not for a few fish..

Interesting I would like to have known what the poor guy did after his house was burnt down.

 

[chevin4]

The bailiff in the case I mentioned in hdygo turned up,on his own in his stab vest,well sod that,these two would have ate him,plus you don't know how many others are lurking,death by bankstick is my sentence m'lud....we live in a terrible world today where the criminals get off too light,a speeding motorist often gets a bigger fine,very strange to me...

Trouble is Alan there are to many "Do Gooders" who sympathise with this lowlife. In my experience these types look on kindness as weakness. I had a part time job in an outdoor store one Friday the car park was full of Traveller's vans. The duty manager tried to be kind and said they could use the outdoor tap. The head guy said he was a gentleman. Next day hordes of them came into the store nicking stuff.

 

[Alan Whitty]

I had a policeman round my house yesterday taking a statement on the bird issue,apparently a goldfinch fetches £200-£250,so it's no wonder the travellers are after them,money for nothing is god for them...

 

[chevin4]

I had a policeman round my house yesterday taking a statement on the bird issue,apparently a goldfinch fetches £200-£250,so it's no wonder the travellers are after them,money for nothing is god for them...

I am pleasantly surprised the police bothered to follow this up.

 

[Alan Whitty]

I think they have been pressured by RSPB or someone similar,but don't quote me....The EA bailiff told me that these organisations would push hard for action to be taken,again dint quote me,I rang the fishery manager after giving the statement to let him know and he also knew it is classed as a serious wildlife crime,but if caught they probably be fined 10p,reduced to 8p for good behaviour...

One thing that would be a feather in the cap of the club is an member and the club pushed reported the incident against birds...

 

[John Aston]

The genuine Romani are ok in my experience in fact a fishing friend of mine is part Romani on his mother's side. He dispises the Didicoy with a passion as all Gypsies get tared with the same negativity by mainstream society.

There are many divisions and sub groups ,or traveller, many of whom despise the others. Internecine strife isn't uncommon and although there is a reverence for 'proper ' gypsies , in my dealings with the travelling community (more than I'd have chosen , to be frank ) each group had equal capacity to be a pain- or ok .

 

[Alan Whitty]

The problem is,they expect everyone to ignore their lawlessness,even give them a pat on their backs as they empty your wallet...

 

[peterjg]

They are totally untouchable, they do whatever they want. They go mob handed in numbers and are completely above the law. They leave a trail of filth and litter behind them. The police give us lip-service but really they are not interested - travellers/gypsies or whatever they are known as usually have no fixed abode (supposedly), have various names and are deliberately untraceable. Maybe they are right and we are wrong, maybe we should all sell our homes and do likewise!?

 

[Alan Whitty]

Forty plus years ago I remember night fishing on a massive clay pit(200 acres),I was on the far side from the road bank,so some considerable distance from a lay-by where there were five or six traveller caravans parked up,anyway at 11pmish there was a massive row,men shouting,women screaming,you could see people moving around,waving arms etc in the silhouette of their lights,this went on for 20-30 minutes,then there were two shotgun blasts,which you could obviously see as well as here,then the screaming worsened,until some minutes later all fell quiet,they could have murdered someone,who knows,as I say a law unto themselves...

 

[peterjg]

About 15 years ago I was fishing (there were several other anglers there) a day ticket lake of only about 2 acres. About 8 travellers turned up and fished for a short while, started a bonfire and then also proceeded to inflate several car tyre inner tubes and had a lovely time paddling and swimming around the swims. I just packed up, pointless saying anything.

 

[no-one in particular]

Interesting I would like to have known what the poor guy did after his house was burnt down.

Never knew, the bloke lived a couple of streets away from me so, the story was rife at the time but I don't know what he actually did. just a fair warning not to mess with them not that anyone did, not even some very tough people I knew at the time, there reputation was already well established but that just confirmed it . Funnily enough I have had a niece marry into gypsy stock, turned up at the wedding all suited and booted and the woman were a picture but kept themselves to themselves, I did make a couple of attempts at socializing but it was all very stilted. However, they were no trouble, very polite and well behaved but I would never get on the wrong side of them. I would never report them, they might come and hunt me down and I would end up like that poor bloke. I have some sympathy for them, outcasts, vilified and even genocide and torture; woman kids the lot and not just the Nazis I believe. They have plenty of reasons to be outcasts, live by their own ways and laws, why should they trust anything civilized? people throw at them.
However, if I was a club I would never have a water near them, would never be worth it. we had a demarcation line and I would consider any fishing would come into that, rules are rules even unwritten ones.