Improving the modern Fixed Spool Reel

[dezza]

To be honest, the ABUs have lasted the best and have been used the most.

Of course, the ABU reels were far far better than anything made by Mitchell. A friend of mine in South Africa has 3 Cardinal 55s which are 35 years old and still doing a good job.

 

[barbelboi]

I think that it could be a tricky one to cure. It is mechanically impossible for line to turn through a right angle without twisting, for every turn on the spool the line will create one twist, so as the reel is loaded it forms many twists.Also the line twist may be aggrivated by incorrect loading, twist generated through reeling in, wind and drift, and also by playing a fish. The good old ‘spin doctor’ still has it’s use.
Jerry

 

[dezza]

Also, apart from incorporating a roller bearing, (I assume this would either too expensive or impossible to incorporate) have manufacturers gone as far as they can with curing this twist problem?
I've always assumed the spool diameter went some way in introducing twist so are the so-called 'big pit reels' better at reducing twist?

I understand, but could be entirely wrong, that Shimano are launching new fixed spool reels (Xmas?). Are they likely to be 'better' in dealing with twist-do they have bigger spools etc?

The number of twists that are put in the line is equal to (Pi x r2)n

Where r = 1/2 the diameter of the line on the spool and n = number of complete turns of the bail arm. Increase the diameter of the spool and there will be fewer twists. The Daiwa TDX has a significantly greater spool diameter than the equivalent Shimanos, so it will be much less prone to creating bad line twist.

By the way we would have to put limits on the above values, based on the smaller diameter of an empty spool and the larger diameter of the filled spool. There is a bit of calculus involved here. Add to this the oscillation of the spool and the whole thing can become a tad complicated.

In the real world I think that other than making the spool even bigger in diameter and there are obvious limits to this, reel manufacturers have gone as far as they can to reduce the effects of line twist.

Those Luddites amongst you who wish to go back to reels with no rollers in the pick-up like the early Mitchels et al, must understand that without an efficient roller, the act of winding in will intensify the twist effect with each turn.

But like I say, it takes all sorts.

 

[chub_on_the_block]

I cant say i have ever noticed line twist except when reeling in a double caster or whatever at silly speed and long range and the hooklength had twisted - which i always attributed to the action of the hookbait spinning in the water on retrieve. Mainline on the spool always seems fine to me?. I have tried crappy lines that coil or spring readily, but just learnt to avoid them.

 

[sam vimes]

I lusted after a Mitchell Match in my early teens, I'd have absolutely loved to own one. There are loads of reels at around the twenty quid mark that I'd have in preference now. Outside of financial or possibly setimental reasons, I totally fail to understand why anyone would want to use one now. If the finger dab bail arm is the driving factor then the (utterly horrible) Daiwa 1657 urinates all over the Mitchell in every respect.

 

[chub_on_the_block]

I lusted after a Mitchell Match in my early teens, I'd have absolutely loved to own one. There are loads of reels at around the twenty quid mark that I'd have in preference now. Outside of financial or possibly setimental reasons, I totally fail to understand why anyone would want to use one now. If the finger dab bail arm is the driving factor then the (utterly horrible) Daiwa 1657 urinates all over the Mitchell in every respect.

The rear drag looks to made from a recycled hose adaptor fitting and the overall look is a cross between Darth Vader and Red Dwarf.

 

[sam vimes]

The rear drag looks to made from a recycled hose adaptor fitting and the overall look is a cross between Darth Vader and Red Dwarf.

They certainly aren't pretty. They manage to look as dated as the twenty plus years old they are but without managing to have a bit of the "classic" about them. Still better in use than a Mitchell Match though, and that's someone that's left the Daiwa redundant for the best part of twenty years.

 

[ravey]

I wonder if some of the modern 'wonder reels' will last as long as my 1978 vintage 300A?

Some of the 'better' reels I have seem rather expensive for what they are (Stradic 2500FA, Stradic 2500FB, 2 X Daiwa TDR3012s, Daiwa TDA2508, Daiwa S2500iA, Daiwa S3000iA). I'm not sure how the cost can be justified. Also (and this is a personal tjhing), I'd rather have a push-button spool than a drag system I never use. The TDX arrangement seems to make sense...

I also feel that line lay could be better; that on my 3012s is not a patch on the older S3000iA. As for the TDA2508, well I originally bought it as a float reel, but it will never do anything but sit on a feeder rod as far as I'm concerned: it's shocking for such an expensive reel.

I agree with the earlier comment about the silly aluminium handles with the 'ball' joint which don't really fold away properly.

Referring to your previous excellent articles on fixed spool reels, what are your thoughts Mark (Wintle)?

 

[dezza]

If the finger dab bail arm is the driving factor then the (utterly horrible) Daiwa 1657 urinates all over the Mitchell in every respect.

The Daiwa 1657 was first designed around 1978 when a lot of FS reels did look ugly. The roller in the bail arm didn't roll for a start. But from an engineering point of view, it was a far better reel than the Mitchell.

One thing I forgot to point out was that the playing of heavy fish using the drag facility will cause a large number of twists to be put in the line. This is caused by line being stripped off the spool with the spool turning against the resistance of the drag. When you wind the line back, you put even more twists in the line.

In some types of fishing using strong lines, this doesn't cause too much of a problem provided you have an efficient swivel somewhere in the line. It will cause problems with very fine lines, but anglers tend to backwind using fine line, don't they?

 

[chub_on_the_block]

I wonder if some of the modern 'wonder reels' will last as long as my 1978 vintage 300A?

Totally agree. And they look great too.

---------- Post added at 13:33 ---------- Previous post was at 13:17 ----------

Some thoughts on what (perhaps) the thread should be about....

OK, thinking futuristically, what would be nice improvements?

1) Onboard digital calculation and display of distance casted/line out. Would avoid need for line clips/marker floats. Maybe would need development of "intelligent line". Something for the next century perhaps?

2) Drags that work

3) Built-in bite alarm

Thats enough cloudthinking for now. Need to get another beer from fridge.

Oh I forgot ...it should still look like a Mitchell 300A

 

[sam vimes]

1) Onboard digital calculation and display of distance casted/line out. Would avoid need for line clips/marker floats. Maybe would need development of "intelligent line". Something for the next century perhaps?

2) Drags that work

3) Built-in bite alarm

1) A step too far for me. Unnecessary and just another thing to fail and add expense that's not needed.

2) I see the suggestion that drags aren't very good quite frequently. It usually comes from people that think that old Mitchell reels are fantastic!

3) Again, too much. I don't want to be buying a new reel when my alarm goes belly up or vice versa.

I'm quite happy with the way modern reels are heading. Lighter and more hard wearing materials continue to be developed but I don't feel the need for drastic improvements. I just hope that they don't get more fragile in the pursuit of weight reduction.
I'd like to see the back of pathetic little bits of plastic as line clips. That's about it other than the wide, long shallow spools I mentioned earlier.

 

[chub_on_the_block]

1) A step too far for me. Unnecessary and just another thing to fail and add expense that's not needed.

2) I see the suggestion that drags aren't very good quite frequently. It usually comes from people that think that old Mitchell reels are fantastic!

3) Again, too much. I don't want to be buying a new reel when my alarm goes belly up or vice versa.

I'm quite happy with the way modern reels are heading. Lighter and more hard wearing materials continue to be developed but I don't feel the need for drastic improvements. I just hope that they don't get more fragile in the pursuit of weight reduction.
I'd like to see the back of pathetic little bits of plastic as line clips. That's about it other than the wide, long shallow spools I mentioned earlier.

Re 1) Luddite tendency?. (speaking as one myself)
Re.2) I confess that may apply to me
Re 3) With "intelligent Line (copyright Dermathong International Ltd) anything could be possible. If it fails, just need reboot or upgrade the software.

Imagine how popular on-board reel software could be..."Nearly lost a fish that I hooked at 48 yards but was pulling out line at 13.2m/second with an instantaneous loading of 8.7Ib at peak, and as i was only using a 9Ib hooklink. At one point i was within 4.8m of running out of line .. it was a close thing thing".

 

[little oik]

Mitchell brought out a reel a couple of years back that had a built in alarm .From what I can tell it didnt sell well so they dropped it .

 

[sam vimes]

Re 1) Luddite tendency?. (speaking as one myself)
Re.2) I confess that may apply to me
Re 3) With "intelligent Line (copyright Dermathong International Ltd) anything could be possible. If it fails, just need reboot or upgrade the software.

Imagine how popular on-board reel software could be..."Nearly lost a fish that I hooked at 48 yards but was pulling out line at 13.2m/second with an instantaneous loading of 8.7Ib at peak, and as i was only using a 9Ib hooklink. At one point i was within 4.8m of running out of line .. it was a close thing thing".

1) I do hope not. I'm not averse to new technology but I don't want several devices bound up in one. You're up the creek without a paddle if one part goes wrong, unless they are modular and replaceable/repairable seperately.

2) At least you're honest. Can't find much to fault the drag in most modern front drag reels these days.

3) Can't say the prospect floats my boat. Many years of shooting mean that my rangefinding by eye is pretty reasonable. I've a good idea of the ranges I'm fishing at, not that it really matters as long as it's repeatable. As for depths I'll stick to a marker or get my fish finder (never used to find fish, just depths) out depending on the circumstance.

 

[Tee-Cee]

chub on he block: You are fortunate indeed if you manage to avoid (almost) any form of twist in your line!
Two points; One, perhaps you would list the lines you use and under what circumstances eg for big carp fishing, feeder fishing, and possibly float fishing...?
Two, it may well be you have a certain method of loading your line (probably where most twist is introduced in the first place!) that reduces this problem, although God knows I have tried everything I can think of or have read about.

Not to put you on the spot but I'm always willing to try something new! I even tried a method from an old John Wilson bookwhich suggests tying the line to a post, then walking backwards for 30m, putting the rod into a curve, stepping backwards 2/3 paces to stretch the line, then pointing rod to post and winding in, which gives a nice supple line ready for use! It works but like any method I've tried, only for a short time....

Anyway, its the Roberts 'spin doctor' for me BUT I'm not too keen on lighter lines...

Look forward to hearing your comments......................


ps NB! The 'Wilson' method above is only a rough outline so don't go following it word for word!!!

 

[barbelboi]

I generally use a low memory line (such as Pro-Gold/Clear) and as TC suggests the method of angling being used will, IMO, dictate the amount of line twist incurred. Catching a lot of large carp ‘up in the water’ would probably be to the top of my list as this involves a lot of casting, retrieving and then playing the fish (usually on the drag). As I stated in an earlier post, the spin doctor comes to the rescue every session or two, depending upon the action. What I do is, once the ‘doctor’ has returned the line to normal, is give it another cast to have a ‘little bit in reserve’ for the next session.
Jerry



PS You can obviously minimize line twist by loading the fishing line onto the spool correctly. A simple check to see which direction your reel's carriage (or bale arm) rotates. Look at your reel from the front, if the carriage rotates clockwise (which is the normal for most fixed spool reels), then you need to make sure the line comes off the new line spool anti-clockwise. Always loading fishing line onto a reel the opposite way to which the carriage rotates stops the line from twisting.

 

[chub_on_the_block]

chub on he block: You are fortunate indeed if you manage to avoid (almost) any form of twist in your line!
Two points; One, perhaps you would list the lines you use and under what circumstances eg for big carp fishing, feeder fishing, and possibly float fishing...?
Two, it may well be you have a certain method of loading your line (probably where most twist is introduced in the first place!) that reduces this problem, although God knows I have tried everything I can think of or have read about.

Maxima or Bayer Perlon lines, 3-6Ib. Float or running lead/feeder methods, usually target roach, beam, tench etc (not heavy duty carp fishing).

The way i wind line on is to place the new spool of line flat on the floor and wind on at steady pace to the reel which is held in my hand. To exert some pressure to the line, in between I trap the line between my knees, to keep it taught but not too taught (dont want to stretch it or make reeling in laboured). If the spool is directly under my knees the line generally comes off the feeder spool without the spool running about all over the place. I use to use a pencil to hold the feeder spool which would spin on it, but that makes the line twist worst i think.

 

[Terry D]

I'd like a short reel stem so that I can easily reach the lip of the spool with short fingers.

 

[dezza]

I'd like a short reel stem so that I can easily reach the lip of the spool with short fingers.

I have short fingers and both the TDR and TDX are fine. So is the DL 4000.

Some reels are not fine, but that's the first thing I check for when I pick up a reel I do not know.

 

[the indifferent crucian]

Even if you do load your line onto a reel correctly, repeated casting and retieving will twist the line as it is reeled back in. The only cure is to stop it twisting...and no one has managed that completely yet.....or casting out with a big weight on, or a Spin Doctor, and retieving the line that way.


I managed to make the line roller turn on a few old Mitchell 300s and it seems to have helpeed..but then I would say that, wouldn't I?

Oh, and I have a pair of frony drag Mitchell mini reels Ron, that you twist the spool to release and leave the drag behind and un-altered....quite a nifty system actually.


Here's a larger version of the same range.......


Mitchell Avocet Front Drag Spinning Reel | eBay