Joining fees

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

hahaha, some would even try and get out of doing that.

As i said before, IMO joining fee's should apply to new members.

Blanker as you pointed out, your joining fee goes back into the water, and thats right it should. You also pointed out that long standing members had done a lot of work on the water, so again it's only right that new members should pay towards all the work that has been done, and work that needs to be done in the future, it's in their own interest also after all isn't it.

John is right about those that take the £iss regarding the Blue Badge, I know an angler who works full time in the building trade, yet has a badge, he will use this badge so he can park his van behind his swim, unload his gear, then park the van in the car park, in some swims he can leave the van behind his swim. After a weekends fishing, he will be climbing ladders carrying stuff at the same time. Unloading lorries etc etc, talk about take the £iss, he even gets away with parking on yellow lines for a short time.

He has never done a working party in his life, yet is the first to winge about others not doing work parties. I am no longer on the committee of that club, but if i was, he would be the first member i would call before the committee, and ask him this. Why don't you do working parties?? you work full time climbing ladders etc, why park your van in swims, when you can clearly walk and carry heavy things. If he didn't want to start doing working parties and stop taking his van to the swims, I would ban him from the club, at the same time i would inform other clubs about him. Clubs dont need members like that.

 

[S-Kippy]

A club I belong to not only charges a joining fee equal to one years subs but also insists on new members attending a meeting. That's fair enough except that the meetings are midweek and for me involved a round trip of 350 odd miles. I can't complain I suppose if I want to belong to the club so I went. It lasted 45 minutes. Circumstances meant that I never fished the club's waters in my first year but I was in & that really was all that mattered at the time.

Also the clubs waters are closed for certain weeks to all but those who have attended a working party....so I have to attend a wp too and that means a 5 hour drive e/w and a 2 night stay. I do it because if I didn't I wouldn't be able to fish certain waters at their peak times which is why I joined in the first place. Its a proper w/p too...all day and damned hard work too.Is it worth it ? To me..even living so far away....yes it is.

You will understand then that I have very little sympathy for able bodied people who duck out of working parties on a local water. A joining fee might seem a bit harsh but when all said & done clubs need income & I fully understand why its levied. The club in question is well run,financially sound and its rules are sensible but strictly enforced. The result being that its a pleasure to fish its waters and I dont begrudge the cost...well,only a bit !

 

[904_cannon]

I do agree with flightliner in the example he gives.

In a few years time my club will have paid off a mortgage we took out on a stillwater complex we have (it was just one clay-pit when we bought it)
When the debt is clear will will be a very wealthy club with assets worth well over £1m if the river section we own is taken into account, perhaps we them could start looking after the loyal members (some who supported the club through a really bad period) by reducing the annual subs and get new members to 'buy in' as it were by introducing a joining fee.

 

[richiekelly]

i understand now why some clubs charge joining fees,also it wouldnt be fair on existing members who have paid it to suddenly drop it,it would seem that its the better run clubs that do charge, im convinced.

 

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

I've had one for the past 5 years, John. My next one is guaranteed also, well as far as a guarantee goes from Bucks County Council. Arrives sometime before next April.

No, working parties should just be for the normal able-bodied senior members and exclude juniors, ladies (if they wish), registered disabled, and senior citizens (thankfully for me). I've done my fair share in the past and may do some in future, but it will be MY decision and not one forced upon me, hopefully.

Why Jeff

The Women should have to take part in the workign parties they want to be equal- the juniors should so they can learn, and the old and disabled can be given a stick with a nail in it and pick up litter - all for one and one for all

 

[Jeff Woodhouse]

The Women should have to take part in the workign parties they want to be equal- the juniors should so they can learn, and the old and disabled can be given a stick with a nail in it and pick up litter - all for one and one for all

Not everyone should treat their members like you treat the staff at Furkham Hall.

 

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

Not everyone should treat their members like you treat the staff at Furkham Hall.

True Jeff

Also peers of the realm should not be expected to join working parties - these are clearly for the working class

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

A club I was in used to make the junior section do working parties, and i think all clubs should. I used to love it when i was a kid, so much so that I went to every working party every year, and carried on doing so until a few years ago.

It doesn't matter what kind of membership you have in a club, there is always something you can do to help, after all, the members don't have trouble fishing when they what do they.

 

[geoffmaynard]

I've always thought Joining fees were a bit of a rip-off but you guys have given me food for second thoughts.
I always thought the joining fee to be a kind of blackmail to stop you leaving. There is one very large club I have been a member of 3 times but only for one or two seasons each time - yet each time I had to pay a joining fee of about double the annual membership fee. I still don't think that was right.

 

[S-Kippy]

I'd like to see more clubs offer reduced fees for part seasons...like [say] a winter ticket from December to March. I rarely fish my local club waters during the summer but I do like to have a bash during the winter but I wont pay a full years fee for 3 months winter fishing. As a result the club's lost a member...and I've lost some winter fishing.

I dont think its fair to charge a years subs when 6 of the 9 months have gone especially when [if the weathers inclement] I might only fish 3-4 times.

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Well Cemax sell spring permits for some waters, but to get one, i think you have to have had a permit for the season before, not to sure as I never bothered.

Skippy,

I know what you are saying, after all, I think anglers who only fish the river season should get a reduced rod licence, but thats another matter.

The reason many clubs don't do it is simple, you pay the subs and when you fish is up to you, if you only fish the winter, thats up to you, you could fish all year, thats what they will say. But wouldn't some clubs be better off selling such permits, I think so.

They would have anglers on their waters, when without such permits, there wouldn't be anyone. More funds in the pot, but then you have a problem, wouldn't those members who only fish the warmer months, also want fishing at a reduced rate ??

 

[Jeff Woodhouse]

I dont think its fair to charge a years subs when 6 of the 9 months have gone especially when [if the weathers inclement] I might only fish 3-4 times.

I don't think it's fair for the EA to charge for a full year's boat registration for anglers on the Thames when, by their own rules, you can only use the boat for fishing for 9 of those months! And even then, the river will be in a condition that makes it unsafe to launch for at least 2 more of those months. Take out freezing conditions and you're only looking at 6 months at most.

And what do they provide for that money? NOWT - NOTHING - ZILCH - NADA! The slipways are either on private land or miles from any car park! It's theft, legalised robbery, nothing more. At least with the rod licence the money goes to fisheries and is usually helping some anglers somewhere.

Rant over - back on topic.

 

[S-Kippy]

Ray

Why not offer that too ? I'm sure there are plenty of people who only fish in the warmer months for one reason or another. Provided you get your pricing structure right I think it would attract more people who MIGHT then decide to become full members. It would also allow anglers to try club waters a bit more cheaply which they might otherwise not fish. I can't see a downside really...as you say its all income that the clubs need.

There are other things clubs might do to attract more people. A lot have "specimen" or night permits available at a premium for those that want it [where rules allow] so why not have night only,day only,summer only,winter only or even river/stillwater only memberships ? A lot of the more commercially run waters offer various permutations ie I rod,2 rod,24 hour,48 hour permits etc. Why can't your local club be equally flexible with its permit options ?

The particular club I'm thinking of really only has two waters I'm interested in. One lake and one stretch of river and I gave up my membership because with all the other places I want to fish its just not worth me having a full years "all in" ....but if I could get a winter permit or even one for the river only at a reduced price I'd have one tonight.

Administratively its easy....just an endorsement in your club book so no big hassle for the membership secretary. All clubs have adult/junior/OAP/family permit options so its really only taking that concept a little bit further . I really dont understand why more clubs dont do it as I'm sure a winter/river permit would be a VERY attractive option for people who like to target roach/chub/barbel etc.

Skippy

 

[Jeff Woodhouse]

SO back on topic (sort of) - There's a club that restricts the number of members it has because they fear every member will always head for a particular lake and that it will get over-fished. They don't allow for the fact that a great many members will just want to fish the rivers, which are undersubscribed. Why they don't have a general ticket for other waters and then an extra one for those that do want to fish this lake, I do not know. They could get more member in, I'm certain, and have more funds to play with.


AND PS SKIPPY : Our club did issue a low priced winter ticket after 1st November, when I was secretary.

 

[S-Kippy]

Its like a lot of organisations nowadays Jeff...they want your money but after they've had it they are no longer interested. Add to that a bit of 1950's thinking amongst the commitee and you have a club that claims to be inclusive but is effectively a cabal of [due respect] "old boys" who resent all other members who they view as a necessary evil ie they provide the income so that the club can pay the lease so that Bert,Stan & Harry can continue to fish "their" water and "their" favourite [private ?] swims.

We've all been in clubs run like that I'll bet. I know I have...but I wasn't a member very long. Me & Phil both left after we got fed up with the mutterings about the "something for nothing brigade"....why ? Because we had the audacity to turn up for the club Christmas match and win it. Apparently Stan always wins the turkey...well he didn't that year ! To be fair the club chairman was a smashing bloke and he apologised to us but it showed the commitee up for the petty minded,selfish people they were so we voted with our feet.

I'm really not surprised at the growth of the commercial water.It takes a very special sort of club run by good people to compete with what's available now on a day ticket.They need good waters too which need paying for and here we are back with how do clubs attract more members/income.

 

[904_cannon]

It's all well and good for the part time member to get a reduced rate when only fishing a part of the year, but clubs have to pay the rent/mortgage for 12 months of the year.
A club can hardly say to the water owner/bank manager if mortgaged, sorry we are only paying for 6/9 months this year because our members only fish those periods.

My club had a couple of half year members when I took over the membership job but I decided not to send them the renewal application form, eventually they decided to pay for the full year.
We still do a half year from October (to 31 January) but only for that first membership period. Anyone joining from say end of November get that period FOC and the whole of the next year for the full membership fee.

 

[Jeff Woodhouse]

here we are back with how do clubs attract more members/income.

Here's your starter for ten.

They're all here. For anyone interested.

 

[S-Kippy]

It's all well and good for the part time member to get a reduced rate when only fishing a part of the year, but clubs have to pay the rent/mortgage for 12 months of the year.
A club can hardly say to the water owner/bank manager if mortgaged, sorry we are only paying for 6/9 months this year because our members only fish those periods.

QUOTE]

Possibly...but I dont think that's what would happen.I can only speak from my perspective and for me its just economics....does a full year offer good value or not ? In my case not so the club gets no income from me at all BUT if it offers me a winter permit option then it gets some.Likewise with the summer permit but I think the winter is a far more viable & possibly attractive option...it will draw in new members/former members that have not taken up a full membership therefore gives the club a little boost of income that it would not otherwise get.

Put simply do I fork out [say] £80 for a full year permit that I will probably only use after December OR [say] £45-50 for a winter permit. That's a no brainer for me because I only really want to fish during the winter...and there are plenty like me I reckon. For someone who fishes summer & winter its a different proposition and sum. I dont honestly think overall club income would fall.

I just think [especially now] that clubs ought to be considering things like this. By comparison to [say] golf a club membership is a bargain but if you belong to 2/3 clubs its still a not inconsiderable sum.

One of my clubs memberships runs December to December which I dont understand & happen to think is a particularly cheap shot.

 

[The bad one]

One of my clubs memberships runs December to December which I dont understand & happen to think is a particularly cheap shot.

If this club is Fight Club, and we don't talk about Fight Club, but a similar club in the Cheshire region, with a similar portfolio of game and coarse waters, where the vast majority of rents are due at the end of Jan, start of the game season. So subs have to run that way to pay those rents.
So is it really a cheap shot for a club that caters for such a cross section of angling?

 

[S-Kippy]

If this club is Fight Club, and we don't talk about Fight Club, but a similar club in the Cheshire region, with a similar portfolio of game and coarse waters, where the vast majority of rents are due at the end of Jan, start of the game season. So subs have to run that way to pay those rents.
So is it really a cheap shot for a club that caters for such a cross section of angling?

We dont talk about Fight Club but that's the one. I didn't know about the rents falling due in Jan and it makes sense now.Fair enough.