Lake sued can this be right

The bad one

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If this owner isn't insured and failed to pay the compo awarded by the court what redress does the injured party have to recover what's owed to him?
Could the person go back to the court to enforce by sequestration that persons assets to the value of the compo plus costs?
 

Windy

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If this owner isn't insured and failed to pay the compo awarded by the court what redress does the injured party have to recover what's owed to him?
Could the person go back to the court to enforce by sequestration that persons assets to the value of the compo plus costs?

Yes, otherwise known as sending the Bailiffs in, among a whole range of other methods of enforcement.

Alternatively garnishee of any credit balance in a bank account, Charging Order against the land, assets of the trustees of the club (if it is a club and not a sole owner) or Bankruptcy if nothing else.

There are very many other forms of enforcement, far too extensive a subject for any reasonably concise post on here. Large and very thick text books are written on the subject...
 
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The bad one

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I know one thing, if i ever had a fishery a sign would state you enter this fishery at your own risk.

If anyone gets injured in any way, has anything stolen, car broken into, then you havent taken care whilst on this fishery.

And i promise you wouldnt get a penny, no matter what any court said.

Ta Windy! I guess that answers Ray's last point above.
 

Windy

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..assets of the trustees of the club (if it is a club and not a sole owner)

Just in passing, remember this possibility if you are flattered to be asked to become a trustee of your local fishing club....

An honour it may be, but an unqualified one, no. Take care out there.
 

Windy

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I believe an a.c. secretary lost his home a few years ago because of the lack of 3rd party liability cover.

I can well believe it.

While the Angling Trust isn't at the top of my love in list the one thing that it most definitely has got right is the members personal public liability insurance. Probably worth a fair chunk of the membership fee, my grumbling aside.

A club without insurance is a club whose members and trustees are very much at personal risk, potentially. Believe it.
 

stikflote

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Would a club that has members ,but no waters of its own,need this insurance?
be interested to know answer to .
 

Windy

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Would a club that has members ,but no waters of its own,need this insurance?
be interested to know answer to .

That's another of those open ended hypothetical questions then innit....

Sorry, but the unspecified imponderables in such a completely open ended question are ludicrously impossible to answer, whether accurately, safely, helpfully or at all. Not even going to start trying to give an answer. If you genuinely need an answer then pay someone for it.

Can I recommend Clerk & Lindsell on Tort (£457 second hand) and Daly's Club law. Two text books which will cost you no more than the equivalent of an afternoon's worth of a decent Solicitor's time sorting it out.... :wh.
 
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stikflote

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Hello Windy, it wasnt hypothetical question,being i am in a club of 30 members ,we do not have our own water ,but we do pay subs to club,,
i was pondering the question of telling chairman ,he might need some insurance ,that was all ,, thanks for your reply.


keith
 

Windy

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Hello Windy, it wasnt hypothetical question,being i am in a club of 30 members ,we do not have our own water ,but we do pay subs to club,,
i was pondering the question of telling chairman ,he might need some insurance ,that was all ,, thanks for your reply.


keith

Remember Sod's law ?
If it can go wrong it will go wrong.

Without insurance of some sort everybody's arse is dangling in the wind. So to speak.
Whatever the nature of the club.

Even the British Origami club.
Them paper cuts can be vicious.
And then become infected.
And then lose a finger.
And suddenly it isn't funny any more.

On the other hand if you don't have your own water I'm not sure what you do, hire other people's water for the day / for matches etc* ? In which case hopefully the people you are hiring from have some relevant insurance. But if not, or the cheque for the premium bounced.... it happens.

The real answer to that being to persuade an insurer that there's not much risk of the club ever being sued, therefore no need for much of a premium.



* you see what's happening there btw ? Because its a hypothetical question and you haven't told me the FACTS I'm forced to speculate on all the possible alternatives. Sorry, not trying to be irascible, but would you expect someone to employ you to do your job and then give you only half of the materials needed and three quarters of a wet torn blueprint ?

On the other hand for a lawyer who wants to bill lots and lots of hours to the client this sort of open ended question is just pure absolute gift from the Gods gravy. Expect to get billed for sums that will make the text books look cheap.

Not having a pop at you btw Stikflote old chap, just an old ex-lawyer's dyspepsia. And genuinely trying to point out to others how to use lawyers cost effectively.
 
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david i

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Dear All,

With regard to trustees, typically they are entitled to be indemnified by the members of the club, provided they have simply acted on the instructions of the management committee.

It is important though that if you have trustees you also have proper and robust terms of reference. In other words ‘precise rules’ as to what trustees can and cannot do.

It is still worth getting proper insurance though, especially if you are a larger club with land and trustees. You will need public and possibly employer liability cover as well as Directors and Officers cover.

Books on law are great of course but they won’t defend you in a court of law! Remember a PL / D&O policy will include cover for paying lawyers and barristers to defend you as well as covering compensation payments.

My guidance is go to a broker that knows the sport, as they will have a much better understanding of the risks you need covering and you will probably end up with a better policy for a better premium..

If you are a member of the Angling Trust you may wish to contact them for guidance on a suggested broker.

Best wishes

David
 

stikflote

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Windy, thanks for reply very kind of you, we wont bother with it,as you say where we fish should have insurance,

cheers keith
 

Steve Ruff

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Compensation Culture ... Windys observations more than welcome ......

Lord Sugar slams “Vulture Type” lawyers in no-win no-fee outburst 26/11/2010

In a debate on Lord Young of Graffham's report into the compensation culture yesterday, Lord Sugar laid into "claims management companies" saying: "They advertise on TV implying that they can get consumers substantial amounts of money for injuries that they have sustained. To add insult to injury, some of them are simply brokers who sell their inquiries on to solicitors; they are often not solicitors themselves.

"The legal system in this country was one that we could be proud of compared to the ambulance-chasing activities of our cousins in the United States. However, since, I believe, 1999, it has been possible for lawyers here to work on a contingency basis offering a no-win no-fee basis to their clients. While this change had some genuine and positive merit in assisting deserved causes, like all things it has been exploited in most cases to bring derisory claims against companies.

"The issue concerns claims from a certain breed of people, some of whom have had the seed of an idea to make a claim planted in their minds from those terrible adverts that they see on TV. The mechanism, as I am sure your Lordships will know, is that the client becomes somewhat irrelevant in the overall scheme of things.

"The client is simply a catalyst among the solicitors, the claim management companies and the new breed of litigation insurers. It is the client from whom these people make their money. Once equipped with a client, these people become a massive thorn in the side of companies that have substantial assets or their own indemnity insurance. I do not wish to get into too much detail on what contingency lawyers charge, but it is near to outrageous that they can in some cases get double their normal fee."

He added: "However, most claims end up being settled by negotiation. Despite knowing that the claim is derisory, companies recognise that to defend it fully will cost a lot and those costs are not recoverable on victory, as the plaintiff usually has no assets. Commercial decisions are made by defending companies that have learnt that fighting on principle is simply bad for the balance sheet.

"The new breed of these-I am sorry to call them this-vulture-type lawyers knows this only too well, as do some insurers. It is almost a licence to print money if you can convince a member of the public to make a claim. I have even heard of members of the public being paid a modest fee of, say, £500 up front if they agree to become a plaintiff.
"Something has to be done about these rogues.

The Government should, first, examine what the Advertising Standards Authority can do. I am sure that, if they so desire, they can tighten up the regulations as to what promises can be made and make advertisers issue warnings in the advert to the effect that they are not lawyers and that bringing false claims is an offence.

"Perhaps, more importantly, there needs to be reform in the law. The Law Society needs to clamp down on some of these unethical lawyers and set some examples.

"Dare I suggest that, if it was ever possible to make those lawyers responsible themselves to pay for abortive costs when they lose a derisory claim, it would, I can assure your Lordships, kill off this industry in one fell swoop?"
 

jimmy crackedcorn

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Ban them advertising (they can do it a stroke look at tobacco etc) and regulate it better, but I believe the overall framework should remain in place. Whilst I agree the need for self-responsibility has/is being eroded (ie if you are carrying a bucket of tar - look where you;'re going !!) you should expect to be safe on a fishing platform, for example or in a shop or wherever. I know H&S gets a beating at every oppotunity but there are alot of genuinly injured workers who probably wished their employers took the time to think about it.

On the other hand, if its wet outside and you walk inside onto a marble/polished wood floor its fair to assume the floor will be wet and a bit slippy.

Silly cow.
 

Windy

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...we wont bother with it,as you say where we fish should have insurance

There are a number of reasons I would still advise you (and any club for that matter) to have your own public liability and legal costs insurance in place, regardless.

"Should have" and "does have" insurance are two different things.

eg. the owner of the venue where you fish hasn't paid his own insurance premium in time, or the cheque has bounced, or he hasn't complied with the obligation of proper disclosure to his insurers, or his policy is avoided for any number of other possible reasons.

Secondly even if the venue owner is insured his insurers might blame you or one of your members by way of defence against a claim.

eg. the fishing platform was fine until one of your members used it and did x y and z damage to it, causing it to be a danger to the Claimant who used it next, or the bank was safe and free of any danger until your member broke a bottle and left the hidden shards embedded in the mud where they cut the Claimant, or... I am sure you can think of a hundred similar instances where your members might be said to be at fault and not the venue owner's indemnity.

The chances of a claim against your club are in the circumstances slim but not non-existant. Look on the bright side, because the chances are so slim the premium appropriate should also be slim.

For the sake of the few quid it is likely to cost it is IMHO still definitely worth it. For any and all clubs.
 
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david i

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Its true enough that the cost of liability insurance for fishing, and indeed shooting, is not too high, because as you say the number of claims are so small; and I agree there is no excuse at all not to be insured

By joining one of the associations that looks after your sport(s) you will almost always get liability insurance as part of the package.

So you get insurance, and they get funds to help fight for your rights

Everyone wins!

Regards

David
 

904_cannon

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Hello Windy, it wasnt hypothetical question,being i am in a club of 30 members ,we do not have our own water ,but we do pay subs to club,,
i was pondering the question of telling chairman ,he might need some insurance ,that was all ,, thanks for your reply.


keith

I would check your own buildings insurance policy re Public Liability. I checked my insurer and I am covered for any event such as injury to a 3rd party whilst fishing.
Perkins Slade who NAFAC used, as does the ATr, will be able to offer advice.

One issue that came up on several occasions when I was a member of the NAFAC Nat Council was liability cover whilst fishing on commercial/day ticket waters. The owner selling the permit may well be covered in the event of any claim but the insurer would then seek to recover any/all costs from the individual angler.
That is why it is so important for those selling day tickets to obtain the name/address AND rod license details of the angler fishing their waters.

From what I remember about the ATr Club cover, that only extends to water owned/leased by a club, not any/all waters. Individual membership does, but as I said earlier, so could the household buildings policy - get it cheched out. If you pay for it make use of it.
 
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Mark Lloyd 3

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This story helpfully reinforces the need for clubs, fisheries and individual anglers to have good, appropriate insurance designed for angling.

The Angling Trust offers reduced rate insurance through Perkins Slade to its member fisheries and clubs. We are able to do this because we now have 1,400 such members (800 or so of whom have opted to buy the insurance package we offer). Our members therefore benefit from bulk discounts as they are buying a product along with all the other clubs and fisheries in the scheme. More details of what is included are available here: http://www.anglingtrust.net/core/co...Brochure+for+Angling+Trust+Affiliated+Members
The cover is specifically designed for angling and includes £5million cover as standard, with £10m available for a small additional premium. It also includes cover for employers liability insurance, Directors and Officers, Professional Indemnity and Libel and Slander (handy in the angling world...)

We also manage to get these preferential rates because we issue advice to our members about how to manage and reduce risks at their fisheries. Legal advice is also available to club and fishery members who opt to take Fish Legal membership in addition to their Angling Trust membership.

The 13,000 individual members of the Angling Trust receive public liability insurance automatically as part of their membership. Therefore if they injure someone, or damage someone else's property, they are protected by an insurance policy for negligence claims against them. This policy applies to all angling activities worldwide (excluding USA and Canada).

The 350,000 individual members of Angling Trust member clubs receive public liability insurance as part of their membership of a member club as above, but this covers angling activities in the UK only.

Please have a look at our website for more information on insurance cover. It's a complicated business and involves a lot of terminology and insurance-speak, but the summary above hopefully makes it clear what is involved.

Just one more reason to join the Angling Trust...

Official Insurance Scheme for Angling Trust Affiliated members
 

waggy

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All of this begs the question, where do clubs who demand a certain number of hours maintenance work per year, from their members, stand if a member is injured or injures some one else whilst 'volunteering'.
 
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