NO-GO AREAS

[Les Clark]

You are allowed to use reasonable force if attacked,if that means hitting them more than once,so be it,we were told at work ,any fighting ,both would be sacked,as a foreman I questioned it,as I wasn`t going to let some ****head hit me and I would walk away, I stated that "they" could have the first punch,and if I was up to it,I would finish it,a punchbag I am not!

 

[Mel Crighton]

Well said Les, It anyone puts me down make sure I dont get up, I am dangerous like a wounded animal no mercy given.

 

[Wayne Duffin 3]

On my stretch of canal last year there was a gang of yobs who attacked and robbed a fisherman on the banks while he was fishing. Luckily because i fish this stretch a lot i have got to know the people who are working in the factories behind where he was attacked and they were the ones who warned me about these people so now i have always got a bat next to me when i fish there. I know that the police say not to defend yourself but i am not the sort of person to just give up what i have worked hard for over the years

 

[Steaker]

One of the boys is a PC and recently off probation. Situations in the job frequently arise over a pint and this issue has on a number of occasions.
The reasonable force justification is now a bit of a dinosoaur.
Apparently a pre-emptive strike is acceptable in order to extricate yourself from a situation which you believe threatens your personal safety.
The degree of menace in turn dictates the pre-emptive action.
Therefore providing you have evidence to support the degree of personal threat, ( a weapon or independant witnesses ) you are justified in countering the implied threat in order to remove yourself to a place of safety and letting the Police pick up the pieces.
Lets face it, most of these mugs have a history and frequent regular haunts.
So if you're not Charles Bronson go mob-handed or do your homework and fish somewhere reasonably safe if you're a loner like me.
Despite 29 years of martial arts discipline I wouldn't ever think of putting myself on offer for a days fishing and only ever do nights alone on commercial venues with suitable security in place.
But the best advice will not always keep you away from trouble and it's on those occasions the law of the jungle takes over and it's the survival of the smartest.
Always take away sight first!

 

[Jim Gibbinson]

To read some of the foregoing, you would think the police were on the side of the yobs and thugs. Look guys; they ain't. The police are as frustrated as the rest of us by the factors that limit their ability to deal with society's miscreants. Fact is, the police have to convince the Crown Prosecution Service that they have a case that will stand up in court. If the CPS agree that the case is like to be successful, they will proceed accordingly. But a successful outcome depends on evidence, whether it be forensic or from independent witnesses.
Police and courts are often aware that someone is guilty, but due to lack of suitable evidence the case collapses. Were courts to convict someone on the basis of insufficient evidence, the criminal would win an appeal - whereupon society is faced with the galling situation whereby the guilty individual is entitled to compensation.

Criminals are, by and large, stupid. So when you learn that someone has escaped justice, console yourself with the thought that "they'll be back." They always are. And sooner or later they get what they deserve.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Not much consolation there then Jim. Crippled for life, can't work so no money, but at least I'd be happy knowing they will eventually get caught and get three weeks community service.

 

[Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)]

Dont blame the police.The key question is as to how we have ended up in a society where casual violence to strangers minding their own business is apparently so widespread?

 

[stu]

Spot on Nigel.

I attended a local planning meeting with the police last week. They are really only acting on orders and are as frustrated as us.

Sorry to bring it back to politics again, and again......but this government has been completely inadequate on this subject. I believe passionately in Human Rights. However these should start with the victims and as far as I am concerned you waive any rights if you undertake these crimes.

Sadly this government gives equal rights, and therein lies the problem.

 

[Jim Gibbinson]

Reluctant though I am to defend a Labour Government, I think it needs to be pointed out that they are bound by the European Convention of Human Rights. The solution might be to withdraw from the Council of Europe and the EEC - but that, as they say, is another issue entirely.

Another problem is that a high proportion of criminals are mentally ill, or suffer from what are euphemistically classified as "personality disorders". The "bad or mad?" debate is one that rumbles on in the criminal justice system, but without doubt there are a lot of individuals free to mix in society who, if truth be told, are so dangerous that for everyone's sake (including their own) they should be incarcerated.

So there you have it; most criminals are thick, bad or mad - or all three.

Depressing? Of course it is, and demographics ensure that the situation will get progressively worse.

 

[The Monk]

On security, I`ve just been issued with one of those Personal Alarms at work














Trouble is, I`m not sure which part of the alarm I`m supposed to hit them with?

 

[The Monk]

a high proportion of criminals are mentally ill, or suffer from what are euphemistically classified as "personality disorders".

Very true Jim, others however have learning difficulties and have been severely let down by the system, they are unable to fill out the correct claims forms, for monies they both need and are entitled to claim, accumulate debts and eventually finish up in custody

 

[Mark Hodson]

I'm a front line bobby in the west mids police and trust me we are all just as frustrated as you are. The Police force under labour has become inceasingly politicised to the point where we are just another one of labours "spin" tools.Don't beleive a word they say about crime falling, all the figures are fiddled to suit what they want to say, there are meant to be more police than ever but we are all busier than we were five years ago. The answer in the eyes of most of us coppers is to vote Tory, they may not have the greatest track record in some areas but when it comes to law and order they will build more prisons and are not afraid to lock people up, and for longer.And before anyone says anything about prison not working, it may not change people but trust me I deal with these scum bags every day and they are past changing or reforming and if they had the opportunity they wouldn't anyway.The only thing they are scared of is having their freedom taken away. This country will never be a safe place until we bite the bullet and realise that 250,000 people in this country(the amount of people who commit 95% of recorded crime)need to be locked up for the rest of us to enjoy the quality of life we rightfully deserve. As for the comments about the standard of some police driving I can only agree, some is deplorable. I have just penned and article (before I read this thread) about fishing security in the home and on the bank which will appear soon. As for the self defense debate, in the eyes of the law you can give as good as you get,you just got to keep the level of force proportionate to the situation.

 

[Beedz]

however, let's not forget that there are lots of people out there who have had rubbish lives, low i.q.,bad upbringing, no money, mental illness, etc. etc.- and still not turned into criminals! this is one of the problems, MANY people prefer to blame other reasons (environment, bad luck etc.) than actually take the blame for being a git!!

 

[Baz]

I have just watched a gang of youths smash up a large polystyrene box on the pavement and leave the mes scattered about.
What could I have done??
They would have seen me come out of my house if I went to them. Should I risk haveing my car trashed at a later date?
They are a new crowd on the street, and don't know where they live.
Ages between about 10 and 12 years of age.

 

[Ron Troversial Clay]

Thank you very much for your very valuable contribution Mark. You are obviously an excellent and honest policeman and I would love to meet you some day.

As regards police driving, whenever I see a jam butty these days a mental flash goes through my brain which says: "An Accident looking for somewhere to happen", such is the imcompetence of the drivers of these vehicles. I've always thought that the police should do an advanced drivers course and that the British driving test should be conducted by professional examiners, not a bunch of over paid beaurocrats who are more influenced by a bird showing a bit of thigh. They should also cover motorway driving, something they do not teach in Britain.

I am looking forward to your article on safety on the river bank. I am 62 years of age and often I am put off fishing my favourite river - The Trent. Even on some of the popular stretches, I often fish all alone, even on a Sunday. I always carry my cellphone of course, but If I was confronted by a gang of yobs who were threatening my life, what should I do and what am I allowed to do?

 

[Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)]

Give them what they want Ron & hope they b..... off. Tackle is replacable,your life isn't!

I have to say I have never felt unsafe on a river bank but I dont fish the innercity or town stretches that might attract trouble.The problem is that these stretches are those which would appeal to the more vunerable anglers ie the elderley & youngsters.

 

[Ron Troversial Clay]

What!

Give them my tackle, my car, my cellphone. And then they knife me.

Look here mate, an 85 year old lady was horribly beaten-up near to where I live recently for a few quid!!!

We are supposed to be a first world country. (are we hell)

We should not tolerate this sort of thing - period! It is about time we told Blair and his hideous minions that we have had enough.

We want yobs, druggies, skinheads, tattooed ****heads, burglars, robbers, muggers, vandals, schoolkids who carry knives and louts, locked up and the key thrown away. And when they are locked up they must be fed a rotten diet so that they die quick. This will save our tax money. Such scum cannot be treated as humans because by virture of their actions, they have resigned from the human race.

They are the architects of their own demise.

 

[Beedz]

blimey ron!
I'm afraid I fit the skinhead, tattoed ****head part of your list there! Also a boring civil servant, wife and kids, big boring grandad type car, fished since the age of 5.................

I agree however, that anyone who feels that the law does not apply to them, should also not have the "protective" sides of the law protecting them. After all, a few hundred years ago they would have simply head their heads lopped off.

 

[Les Clark]

I worked in a bar many years ago and we used to get all the local scum in,but there was rarely any trouble becouse they all knew each other, but when they used to meet up to go to "watch" the football,home or away,they all would be tooled up with stanly knife`s and would use them.
One of them was in a bar brawl in a pub after the match,was caught wrapping a pool cue around somebody`s head by the police who had just walked in,he was nicked in the act,but when it came to court, he got off and sued the other bloke for getting blood on his leather jacket!
It`s not all down to the old bill, it`s how clever your brief is.

 

[Matthew Cooper]

HEY RON THAT SKIN HEAD TATTOOED BIT FITS ME ASWELL, BUT THATS THE BRUSH WE GET TARRED WITH. WHEN I STARTED THIS THREAD I DIDN'T REALISE IT WOULD START SUCH A DEBATE WITH A LOT OF VALID POINTS TO BE CONSIDERED. MY OVER ALL VIEW IS THAT I AINT GONNA GIVE UP NOWT WITH OUT A FIGHT I HAVE SPENT HOURS WORKING TO SAVE FOR NEW GEAR AND I'LL BE DAMED IF ANY THIEVING PIKIE IS GONNA TAKE IT AWAY WITH OUT SOME FORM OF PROTEST. MY GEAR MAY NOT BE TOP OF THE POPS BUT FOR ME IT IS MY GET AWAY MY TIME TO GO OUT AND DO SOMETHING I LIKE.