Otters on the Bristol Avon

[Badgerale]

Ultimately the otter is a native animal and should be on our rivers, however it effects our fishing.

Compared to pollution, over extraction of water, and signal crayfish, it's probably a low concern.

In fact, they may help control crayfish numbers, which would be well worth losing the odd fish.

 

[ian g]

I would agree though they can have a disproportionate affect on smaller rivers . On the Severn where I normally fish their impact is not as great . The main sign of their presence is swan mussel shells left on the bank . They are a native species and protected so otter hounds are relly out of the question

 

[Alan Whitty]

In our area we have a stretch of small river where small barbel are prolific, from gudgeon size to 2lbs and up, there have been concerns of otters being seen, I myself felt sure I had one surface near the downstream boundary of the stretch, then last year there was a massive disturbance moving upstream, almost seal like, at present numbers are still very good, on the Ivel and Ouse I haven't barbel fished them for maybe three or four years as catching one would be as easy as pulling hens teeth, these were rivers with healthy populations before 2013 with fish from say a pound to upper doubles, the Ivel produced a fish of 20lbs 12ozs (my pb of 18lbs) which was found being chomped upon by an otter, a healthy fish other than bite marks near its organs, nowadays the rivers barbel and chub stocks are virtually gone, a very sad thing for me as I've spent many, many hours catching, big barbel, chub to over 6lbs, lots of perch over 2lbs, roach over 2lbs, dace 12ozs, these days I have a walk there occasionally but never with a rod...

 

[Alan Whitty]

No call for hunting otters from me, however helping the animals to the extent of micro chipping kitts in their holts and rescuing them when their mothers are killed on our roads is artificially enhancing an apex predator which leads to prey species being pressured...
As for otters predating signal crayfish, without doubt they do eat lots of them, trouble is barbel in cold snaps go into a snoozing state, otters swim in feel the fish and bang, one dead barbel...

 

[The bad one]

Here we go again the Bollox starts! Fish don't live forever, Big fish are old fish and die......naturally! Anything and everything will open a carcass from the head down to its belly, as that's the softest part of the body. Watch the fishmonger open up a fish. No skeleton, bone, etc in the the way in that part of its anatomy. Like it or nor the otter is here and protected to stay.... get over it!

If you really want to get Aerated about fish dying then pollution of the waters both still and running is killing far more than otters ever will!

 

[The bad one]

Oh and as you've woke me up, beside pollution, fish in all waters go through life cycles, so for a decade or so a species is up and there's loads of them everywhere, then the get old and die....oh sorry, the otters eat them.......Bollox they die! Without recruitment in Sufficient numbers to be everywhere. Then over time they build up in numbers and become widespread again through good recruitment conditions.

 

[Mark Wintle]

Elegy for a River, a book by Tom Moorhouse has some interesting stuff about crayfish (and water voles).

 

[markcw]

You want to try fishing a match on the Mersey in Warrington ,and Sammy Seal pops his head up in your swim .

 

[Alan Whitty]

Fairly big rivers cope with otters(and seals) better than smaller ones, fact, on smaller rivers the stock haven't got anywhere to run to, an otter can't feed in two spots at once, so predation has a more significant effect, fish do die, but not all in a season, nor barbel of between 2 and 20lbs(unless pollution or disease strikes, making comments about venues we don't know have little bearing on the conversation as the B.Avon had a healthy barbel population as did the G.Ouse and Ivel, the Thame, Cherwell and Kennet have all been affected similarly after otters inhabited them, it seems the only barbel rivers that stay relatively safe are the bigger ones, or those that haven't yet been visited...

 

[nottskev]

I sympathise with anglers who've lost their barbel sport. I've had this happen on three Trent tribs, and I miss barbelling on these three small/medium rivers. But it's hard to know exactly why barbel failed to recruit and thrive. The Lower Derwent, to take one of the three, which includes the Dove and the Soar, was once prolific with roach and chub, and a mecca for anglers in the late 70's. Then, for a ten year spell, the barbel fishing was good, but you didn't see many roach or chub. Then, it seemed coarse fish stocks collapsed, and next, you could catch dozens of little grayling but nothing else. It remains a mystery. Controlling clubs can't explain it and neither can the EA, who point out that major sewage works improvements have left the river cleaner. Yes, otters appeared during those cycles, but, as the scientists tell us, correlation is not causation ie many people who drown have recently eaten ice cream (people eat lots of it on sea or waterside holidays) but that's incidental to their drowning and you can't blame the ice cream. I can accept otters predate small river barbel, but there are fish stock cycles which can't be pinned on otters.

 

[Badgerale]

I think a lot of it is that in some rivers, even ones famous for barbel, they are mostly old fish - they aren't breeding well and there is no depth in different sizes caught. As anglers we tend not to notice this because we ourselves are focused on the big ones, but it isn't a sign of a healthy waterway. The only reason these fish are still around is because they don't (didn't) have any predators.

In a healthy, natural, ecosystem, the barbel would be regularly breeding and the big older fish would be picked off by otters. It wouldn't matter because younger fish would be taking their place. Unfortunately our rivers aren't healthy.

 

[john r stockburn]

A good case for reinstating otter hounds and baliffs carrying shotguns

 

[Alan Whitty]

Sadly the Ivel had a healthy population of barbel, two years before the otters arrived and had man made holts fitted every so often down the river I caught a few barbel from 8ozs to 2lbs, the local kids used to catch them in Biggleswade weir back then, the EA stocked quite a few since the stocks crashed, basically very few have survived and I mean very few, stocking them was like restocking the larder, now these fish were young health checked EA fish, so not old unhealthy fish, this river would have been holding the UK barbel record, no question, sadly they are gone, the Ouse above Bedford might be a different story as the barbel there didn't spawn very successfully after around 20 years after their introduction I believe so signal crayfish, water abstraction and lack of suitable spawning grounds may have put paid to them, what is strange is that barbel still exist on the Thames, albeit in lowish numbers, so they are able to maintain a fairly stable if smallish population, how I don't know...

 

[Hugh Bailey]

For the lower Thames (below Staines), I think there’s simply too much bankside activity for otters to live. Unless someone introduces them (maybe the island or Molesey), I can’t see how they would get there. Not sure how good breeding is on the lower but other species seem to be doing ok.

 

[nottskev]

A good case for reinstating otter hounds and baliffs carrying shotguns

What is?

 

[john r stockburn]

What is? I've lived in Burnley, or Nelson, to be exact. There were no barbel and no otters, and the nearest proper river, the Ribble, 20 miles away, has both in spades. Did you ever see Tigger's HDYGO posts? Who/what do you want to shoot and why?

I never mentioned shooting anyone or anything ,the nearest PROPER river to nelson is pendle water which joins colne water in Barrowford and they in turn join the Calder around pendle bottoms
neither are twenty miles away and at padiham there are barbel ,chub dace and trout with otters predating on all the mentioned species including lambs in spring time
but I suppose if we don't have rivers like the trent then we don't have proper rivers
Having lived in Nelson is nothing to be proud of

 

[nottskev]

I never mentioned shooting anyone or anything ,the nearest PROPER river to nelson is pendle water which joins colne water in Barrowford and they in turn join the Calder around pendle bottoms
neither are twenty miles away and at padiham there are barbel ,chub dace and trout with otters predating on all the mentioned species including lambs in spring time
but I suppose if we don't have rivers like the trent then we don't have proper rivers
Having lived in Nelson is nothing to be proud of

Good to hear the local river fishing is so good these days. They're all proper rivers and I fish some even smaller than Pendle Water. Perhaps I should say "major". I'm aware of Pendle Water, as you might be if you crossed it twice a day for years on the way to and from work. A pretty stream, in places, with a bit of fly-fishing, iirc.
As for shooting, I wondered why you thought bailiffs should carry shotguns.

 

[The bad one]

A good case for reinstating otter hounds and baliffs carrying shotguns

Still peddling the same old shite I see! Still waiting to see the video of the otter killing lambs you said you post last time you came out with that statement.

 

[John Aston]

A good case for reinstating otter hounds and baliffs carrying shotguns

I'm not sure what planet you are posting from but honestly? Do you really believe there is even the remotest chance of that sort of nonsense being acceptable to the public in 2023 ? Any politicians (other than minister for the 18th century, Jacob Rees Mogg ) who'd risk proposing this? Presumably you'd be fine about reintroducing pike culls too - their appetite for swans and small dogs is legendary ...

 

[@Clive]

The fishing police I have come across in France carry pistols. Other than the one who was apparently suffering from Parkinson's Disease. On the Dordogne I saw two of them in kayaks checking that the 24/7 bivvy bovverers had Cartes de Peche. The Cypriot fishing police too were armed and dangerous. They looked properly disappointed when I produced a valid licence.