Really Annoying ?

[Simon K]

Match anglers stare at a tiny float tip for 5 or even 8 hours every single week.
I must say I am more with Fred on this one.

Unless I have missed something, your fishing livebaits in a wier pool at night with constantly bleeping buzzers ?
.. Are you not having to look at the rods each bleep anyway to make sure its not a bite?

Bob said what are we to do- not fish for Zander? Well, perhaps - 'yes' is the anwser.
If you seriously can't hack looking at rods for about 4 hours in that situation then
maybe it is better not to fish for the Zander in that situation ?

...4 hours? What did you do before buzzers?!!!

Philip, I do watch the rods and each bleep, but buzzers makes it "hands free".

The difference is, Bob's slightly embarrassed by the bleeping and I'm not!
I do use Delks with the sensitivity and volume turned down.

Tbh, very few anglers fish there after dusk anyway and you tend to get the pool to yourself.

Re Berty's comments, I see where you're coming from, but yes, 9 out of 10 lives used will see out a 4+ hour session comfortably. Gobio are preferred, with Chublet a close second. Maybe you're right about the steroids in the Lea?

 

[Bob Hornegold]

Match anglers stare at a tiny float tip for 5 or even 8 hours every single week.
I must say I am more with Fred on this one.

Unless I have missed something, your fishing livebaits in a wier pool at night with constantly bleeping buzzers ?
.. Are you not having to look at the rods each bleep anyway to make sure its not a bite?

Bob said what are we to do- not fish for Zander? Well, perhaps - 'yes' is the anwser.
If you seriously can't hack looking at rods for about 4 hours in that situation then
maybe it is better not to fish for the Zander in that situation ?

...4 hours? What did you do before buzzers?!!!

---------

Well sorry lads,

I'm sticking with Buzzers, turned down and on ear phones.

We use Isitopes on the top of the rods and we stay awake all night when Zander Fishing.

I would like to see any Live Bait rig, used in a weirpool on live bait that does not Bleep ?

But of course you know much Better than us ?

As for Before Buzzers, I have been using them for 40 years +, before that we used a Penny on the top of an Ambidex Spool and a Hub Cap below.

And to be honest, the only anglers who are getting upset at the continual bleeps, are the few Barbel Anglers ?

Happy Days

Bob

 

[Berty]

I dont think either of you will listen to us no matter what we say!!........one of you is saying there is no flow, the other saying its a weir pool.........lives working continous for 4 hours causing the problem??? nah, i'll wager the water and your rigs are what are causing the continous bleeps............or your baits are being hit and you dont acknowledge it.

But ill say FA anymore.

 

[Simon K]

I dont think either of you will listen to us no matter what we say!!........one of you is saying there is no flow, the other saying its a weir pool.........lives working continous for 4 hours causing the problem??? nah, i'll wager the water and your rigs are what are causing the continous bleeps............or your baits are being hit and you dont acknowledge it.

But ill say FA anymore.

Maybe you haven't formed a complete Picture, Paul. Neither one of us has said anything contradictory.

It's a mixed-depth, slow-moving weirpool with areas of slow back-eddy and other areas of almost static water. The fastest water (walking pace) is on the surface as it spills into the pool, but this disspates quickly as it's spread over a wide area. Depth ranges are from 6 feet down to 20 feet.

Since baits are checked every hour or so, we know whether they've been hit or not.
The only time you get teeth-marks (or other physical damage) on a hit bait are after a "positive" run where the line pulls out of the clip and you miss out on hooking the Zed (or night-feeding pike). It's pretty obvious that we're not missing takes that simply aren't occurring. We would see the evidence. We always strike early to avoid deep-hooking.

 

[Berty]

Ok Simon, i will comment again, thanks for a balanced reply, i know we didn't start our introductions off to well.

I really cant comment on your weirpool but i can say that of those i have fished the faster water aint always in the surface layers like the other swims.

i really find it difficult to believe that a small bait could cause this even if left alone for 4hrs......recasting it every hour just makes it more difficult to believe, at least for me.

I can only talk of my own experiences as can you, i first fished fior Zander in about 74, and spent a huge amount of my fishing pred fishing.

I'm not qualified tho to comment on your waters any more than you are on mine but i will say that if i were to guess where i would have trouble like this it would be on wierpools.....i have trotted baits a lot in them and witnessed the strange water situations that cause a float to head back to the wier at times.

The rod top should be telling you more if this is bait activity you will get stabs, if it is water the movements will totally different.




On the Severn alarms are a secondary back up for most Zander anglers, some VERY big fish have NOT pulled clips out...................whatever has been said you both seem to spurn it, makes me wonder why you asked if you dont want to listen.............dump the pods, get the rods in the air and watch the tips or put floats on!

 

[waggy]

Maybe a circle hook to a pulley rig on the right weight might work.

 

[Berty]

Maybe a circle hook to a pulley rig on the right weight might work.

i like circle hooks, but i think they are for fish who take a mouthful and turn fast?.

 

[Dicky (Angling Trust PAC)]

On the Severn alarms are a secondary back up for most Zander anglers, some VERY big fish have NOT pulled clips out...................dump the pods, get the rods in the air and watch the tips!

Couldn't agree more. The tip is always the front line of indication in zander fishing and I wouldn't consider zangling at night without isotopes on board.

You can incorporate back-up indication (led floats like the Greys or front dropper wih lightest bobbin) but the tip is king and if you don't respond to the first twitches you will miss your target.

Bout time you did a Z article for the other channel Paul!?

 

[Berty]

Couldn't agree more. The tip is always the front line of indication in zander fishing and I wouldn't consider zangling at night without isotopes on board.

You can incorporate back-up indication (led floats like the Greys or front dropper wih lightest bobbin) but the tip is king and if you don't respond to the first twitches you will miss your target.

Bout time you did a Z article for the other channel Paul!?

I did add or put a float on ****y......because i thought of you and your shiny red bulb

YOU should write........my mind,at the moment, is on something far wilder that also lives in Worcstershire.............no, not that lass in the St Johns chippy!

 

[Philip]

fish have NOT pulled clips out...................whatever has been said you
both seem to spurn it, makes me wonder why you asked if you dont want to listen.......
......dump the pods, get the rods in the air and watch the tips or put floats on![/QUOTE

That pretty much sums up my feelings too. Why ask if you don't really want to listen and
worse, make a sarcastic remark like 'well you know best' to people offering advice to the question
asked! For the record Bob, no I probably don't know best. I am no mega Z head. Happy?
However in the situation you describe I think your making life difficult for yourself.

What can I say? ..Carry on as you see fit which seems to be headphones bleeping in
your ears all night.

 

[Dicky (Angling Trust PAC)]

No, not that lass in the St Johns chippy!

Hands off! She's the only gal gonna batter my mushrooms!

 

[Simon K]

Couldn't agree more. The tip is always the front line of indication in zander fishing and I wouldn't consider zangling at night without isotopes on board.

You can incorporate back-up indication (led floats like the Greys or front dropper wih lightest bobbin) but the tip is king and if you don't respond to the first twitches you will miss your target.

I must admit I've never heard of zangling (good word) on the tip. Fishing primarily with gobio they are prone to regular working "twitches" of themselves, hence the bleeping. How to differentiate between the two?
If I struck at every twitch in a session I'd be emptying the pool of baits beforehand to fund it.

I don't know what the population density is on the Severn, but it's not high on the Lea Navigation.

I would much prefer to be fishing with deads as I believe this tends to sort out the bigger fish, but it's imposssible and I have tried it.

One thing I've noticed is that the runs I've had on lives over the years have tended to be when the bait-fish has been "quiet" for a little while and the take seems to come out of nowhere. It's almost as though the Zeds quietly stalk them and then surge in from close quarters.

The take from the Zed I had last week was so violent I thought something had hit the rod.

 

[Berty]

Simon......have you tried a sack of minced fish with rope attached thrown in and used to attract the crays away?......perhaps a couple?

Then fish deads?

 

[Simon K]

No, but it's a thought we'd had in the back of the mind. Pierced tin(s) of cat food have also been recommended.

Wouldn't minced fish also potentially attract the preds away, too?
Or maybe give it some time pre-dusk to work and then fish downstream of it?

The way things are this year, there may just be TOO many crays for it to work. Trappers above this weir and also the next weir down have been taking (literally) tonnes of crays out each week.

Fishing for baits yesterday with single maggot on a bomb (no loose feed) I pulled two crays out. They carpet the place.

It's possible the cray activity may contribute to spooking our baits too, hence the many twitches through the evening. We've had keepnets ripped by them to get at the livelies before now.

 

[Bob Hornegold]

Some Good advice there lads.

I will consider any method that might improve the chances of a Big Z.

Thanks

Bob

 

[mark barrett 2]

Ok Simon, i will comment again, thanks for a balanced reply, i know we didn't start our introductions off to well.

I really cant comment on your weirpool but i can say that of those i have fished the faster water aint always in the surface layers like the other swims.

i really find it difficult to believe that a small bait could cause this even if left alone for 4hrs......recasting it every hour just makes it more difficult to believe, at least for me.

I can only talk of my own experiences as can you, i first fished fior Zander in about 74, and spent a huge amount of my fishing pred fishing.

I'm not qualified tho to comment on your waters any more than you are on mine but i will say that if i were to guess where i would have trouble like this it would be on wierpools.....i have trotted baits a lot in them and witnessed the strange water situations that cause a float to head back to the wier at times.

The rod top should be telling you more if this is bait activity you will get stabs, if it is water the movements will totally different.




On the Severn alarms are a secondary back up for most Zander anglers, some VERY big fish have NOT pulled clips out...................whatever has been said you both seem to spurn it, makes me wonder why you asked if you dont want to listen.............dump the pods, get the rods in the air and watch the tips or put floats on!

That makes no sense at all. If you are using a decent running rig and braid then the slightest pull is going to register at the drop off. your correct they wont neccessarily pulll the drop off off, but there will be a tightening or raising. in this instance (and its not that common in my experience) a float or rod tip is not going to show any more. Personally I have caught thousands of zander over the years and most of the bait ones would be on a drop off and front alarm, but i wouldnt be using tiny baits either

 

[Dicky (Angling Trust PAC)]

That makes no sense at all. If you are using a decent running rig and braid then the slightest pull is going to register at the drop off. your correct they wont neccessarily pulll the drop off off, but there will be a tightening or raising. in this instance (and its not that common in my experience) a float or rod tip is not going to show any more. Personally I have caught thousands of zander over the years and most of the bait ones would be on a drop off and front alarm, but i wouldnt be using tiny baits either

Hi Mark,

Not sure you've factored into the equation the amount of flow on a big river like the Severn, which requires drop offs to be tensioned up to prevent the flow pulling the line out of the clip. Or indeed the change in tension when the line either pulls out because of the fish, or has to be pulled out of the clip manually due to finicky fish, which leads to many a dropped run.

In fact I'm pretty sure the guys you got to write the Severn chapter of your book had ditched braid and reverted back to mono to try to get round this problem?


Drop offs certainly have their uses in zander fishing, but they are not a 'one size fits all' solution to effective bite indication.

Apologies for the slightly off topic post Bob and Si, but Mark's interesting comments warranted a reply

 

[Simon K]

Something I noticed no-one's mentioned is the angle of rod to bait.

I generally try to point my rod at the bait as much as poss to reduce the resistance felt by a taking predator. Obviously this is not always possible so there will be instances where tips will register movement before the indicator; and vice-versa.

No Zander last night but I did manage a 4lb river eel which gave a damned good account of itself! First time I've ever had an eel on a lively.

 

[Berty]

That makes no sense at all. If you are using a decent running rig and braid then the slightest pull is going to register at the drop off. your correct they wont neccessarily pulll the drop off off, but there will be a tightening or raising. in this instance (and its not that common in my experience) a float or rod tip is not going to show any more. Personally I have caught thousands of zander over the years and most of the bait ones would be on a drop off and front alarm, but i wouldnt be using tiny baits either

Why dont it make sense???? a small bait causing rising and pulling for 4 hours??? that makes no sense! .... but water movement on some rigs can!!......aint you even seen your rod tips bouncing in flow???????

You really need to catch a few more Z's Mark if you think a tip wont show more than a drop off!!!!!..........in fact i will say you are talking boll ocks!....i have seen my tip rattling many a time with out a bleep from the alarm or any movement of my indicator!!

 

[Simon K]

Umm, Paul, see my previoius post. Just a thought, but maybe Mark's assuming that rods are always pointed at baits? I'll wager most of his Zangling's been done on the fens where there's no, or little, flow.
In comparison, the power of the Trent or Severn is completely different I'm sure.

I hope to do a night's zedding on the Severn this coming week, so I'll let you know what I experience..............if anything?