Rods which "Lock Up".

[Peter Jacobs]

The Carbotech stuff seems good, the Harrison stuff is brilliant and the Drennan stuff is good for the price. Now, how to afford a Carbotech???

How on earth can you say anything about Carbotec rods until you have used one for a few years?

I have Harrisons and Drennan rods and they are not a patch on the Carbotec rods, for either the feeder or the float versions.

Tell you what too Ron, Carbotec Fly rods are something else too, not as good as a top of the range SAGE though . . . . . IMHO

 

[S-Kippy]

Fly rods are different though Peter. Casting style comes into it and for the life of me I cannot cast either a Cortland line or get a Sage rod to work for me which is why I suggest it is important to try a fly rod out with a line on it before you part with your money. Especially if you are buying top end.

I've been accused of being a tart because I use Hardy rods. Not so...the fact is that I've found out the hard way that their blanks suit my slower casting style better. I still can't cast a Cortland line on them though. I get on with Grey's rods too...but you'd expect that.

 

[dezza]

Oh come on PJ, I said "Seems", for the very reason that I have never owned one. Maybe I should have said: "judging from the comments of others." As for Carbotech being better than Harrison, well that remains a matter of opinion. I don't know if Carbotech make double handled salmon fly rods but Harrison have a world wide number one reputation in making blanks for these rods. And they had better not take to locking up when used as a fly rod..

I have met a lot of anglers who could not get on with their Sage fly rods but do very well with Greys and Sonik fly rods. As regards distance casting with the double haul technique, I can get farthest with a rod built for me by Steve Parton on a Harrison blank, and I have owned 4 Sage rods in my life.

There ARE better fly rods than Sage around these days, make no mistake, made in the UK too and not China.

 

[Tim Ridge]

Tim,
do you not find that most folks these days wouldn't know a rod that was ideal for trotting if it bit them on the bum? I despair at the number of, what I consider, inappropriate recommendations for trotting/stick rods that I see on the forums. Little wonder that so many folks complain that they can't hit fast bites from smallish fish when trotting. The snag here is that there aren't that many ideal trotting rods made any more, especially not in the mid to lower end of the market.

I agree entirely with you sam and its not just the forums where innapropriate advise is given. I bought a top end rod retailing at over £450 out of desperation and still I'm not happy with the rods I have in my armoury. Even those few products that are labelled as 'stick' rods seem to have too much flexibility in the middle for my liking. I'm currently rebuliding an old tricast (resplicing a broken tip) that I managed to acquire and (all being well) this should be something like when finished.

 

[dezza]

I agree entirely with you sam and its not just the forums where innapropriate advise is given. I bought a top end rod retailing at over £450 out of desperation and still I'm not happy with the rods I have in my armoury. Even those few products that are labelled as 'stick' rods seem to have too much flexibility in the middle for my liking. I'm currently rebuliding an old tricast (resplicing a broken tip) that I managed to acquire and (all being well) this should be something like when finished

Spot on Tim.

All the rods I have looked at that perport to be rods for trotting, also state that they will haul in match carp, F1s or similar. Maybe they will, but you just cannot buy an ultralightweight 14 foot rod with a soft tip suitable for hooklengths down to 0.05mm and 22 hooks, that in some instances are necessary to overcome extremely shy big roach.

But shopkeepers tell me to look around and see where most anglers are fishing these days.

Don't tell me, it's commercial waters for match sized carp.

 

[tigger]

This might be worth a look for the stick float rod fancier, i've never seen one so I ain't got a clue if they're any good....

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

Here's another one that looks interesting...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270848481873?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

They bothe look like they may go for a bargain price.

 

[Tim Ridge]

Hi Ron
The trouble with the commercials and the old type stick rods is that these 'did' genuinely lock up as opposed to todays more 'tippy' rods which tend to be fast-progressive. I suspect the carbon content required to produce such an action is high, making the rod prone to fracturing if abused. With the present angling scene what it is, you can understand why none of the manufacturers are willing to produce such rods.

 

[dezza]

Hi Ron
The trouble with the commercials and the old type stick rods is that these 'did' genuinely lock up as opposed to todays more 'tippy' rods which tend to be fast-progressive. I suspect the carbon content required to produce such an action is high, making the rod prone to fracturing if abused. With the present angling scene what it is, you can understand why none of the manufacturers are willing to produce such rods.

Hi Tim,

Although I have never liked the term: "Lock Up" (sounds like prison) I can see where you are coming from. One aspect of "match" rods we must take cognisance of, is that if they are used for match angling, they must be able to take the constant stress of swinging in 5 or 6 ounce fish. This will comprimise any design requirement necessary for balancing and cushioning extremely fine hooklengths.

Back to the late 50s where B James had the same problem with the Richard Walker Roach Rod, who's extremely fine split cane tip was soon buggered by anglers who swung in small fish.

 

[itsfishingnotcatching]

So, if in the opinion of this forum, there are very few suitable trotting rods on the market, ignoring the likes of the Carbotec (too expensive) or Normark (no longer produced?). Which affordable, currently produced rods would anyone recommend? If I had a budget of £150-£200 (or preferably less) would a Preston "Carbonactive", Maver "Powerlite" or Hardy "Marksman" be the best available product or should I look at a custom built rod i.e. a "Mark Tunley" which come within this price range

 

[barbelboi]

So, if in the opinion of this forum, there are very few suitable trotting rods on the market, ignoring the likes of the Carbotec (too expensive) or Normark (no longer produced?). Which affordable, currently produced rods would anyone recommend? If I had a budget of £150-£200 (or preferably less) would a Preston "Carbonactive", Maver "Powerlite" or Hardy "Marksman" be the best available product or should I look at a custom built rod i.e. a "Mark Tunley" which come within this price range

For trotting, a Harrison GTI 15' - mine is many years old now and still going strong. Should get one for less than £200 if you go for an off the shelf rather than a custom built - or if Mark Tunley will knock you up one for that price I'd go for it.
Jerry

 

[sam vimes]

Which affordable, currently produced rods would anyone recommend? If I had a budget of £150-£200 (or preferably less) would a Preston "Carbonactive", Maver "Powerlite" or Hardy "Marksman" be the best available product or should I look at a custom built rod i.e. a "Mark Tunley" which come within this price range

I'd probably suggest going second hand. You can pick up a genuine stick float rod, rather than a waggler rod that will make a reasonable stab at it, for peanuts.

 

[mick b]

A rod which locks-up is essential....in certain situations.

Consider this;
You are sitting in a fighting chair attached to a 130lb IGFA big game outfit and your hooked into a fish which is 100m below the boat slugging it out like a pitbull.
If your rod just bends forever you will never be able to exert enough pressure on the fishes head to get it up and therefore swimming towards the surface.
In this situation your rod MUST lock-up.
It cannot keep on bending like a (cooked) stick of spaghetti.

A serious big game rod (one which has fought a number of big fish without failure) are made of E glass, rerely a carbon/glass or heaven forbid carbon.

However, if you want to see rods truely locked-up please check-out the Jigging Master website and you will see what a truely locked-up rod looks like........................but be prepared to be shocked, Jigging Masters engineering has world-wide aclaim because they are at the cutting edge of rod technology and also test their rods to destruction in real-life fishing situations videos evidence is on their site to prove it.

When I trot my float down the river I use a 6lb running line and a 4lb hook length/leader however I doubt I could break either line with my Hardy 13ft Specialist simpley because it seems to bend forever.......luuvely

 

[Tim Ridge]

So, if in the opinion of this forum, there are very few suitable trotting rods on the market, ignoring the likes of the Carbotec (too expensive) or Normark (no longer produced?). Which affordable, currently produced rods would anyone recommend? If I had a budget of £150-£200 (or preferably less) would a Preston "Carbonactive", Maver "Powerlite" or Hardy "Marksman" be the best available product or should I look at a custom built rod i.e. a "Mark Tunley" which come within this price range

I know I wouldn't be totally happy with any of the rods that are currently available (in this country) for roach fishing with hooks below a size 20 and some of those being mentioned are the worst examples in my opinion. I wouldn't even feel happy using many of them for chub which have relatively tough mouths.

 

[tigger]

I know I wouldn't be totally happy with any of the rods that are currently available (in this country) for roach fishing with hooks below a size 20 and some of those being mentioned are the worst examples in my opinion. I wouldn't even feel happy using many of them for chub which have relatively tough mouths.

I have to say your talkin total nonsense imo. Blimey there's plenty of perfectly suitable rods for trotting / fishing for roach with any size of hook !
Drennans im9 range (although I prefer the older model of the drennan im9) are perfect for roach fishing. I don't get this thing some people have about roach needing some kind of unobtainable rod, I mean what's the big deal about roach?
I use a varied selection of rods for my trotting which is my main style of fishing and have never had any prob's whatsoever catching roach. As I said earlier my favourite allround rod is the normark Avenger MKII and i've caught countless roach, barbel, dace, chub, perch,carp,trout, grayling,minoes etc etc, of all sizes from grammes to over 12lb using it and have never had a problem with hook pulls on the strike, when playing a fish or any other problem. I have other rods which are as good but not as versatile and more suited to smaller fish as they haven't got the extra power to cope with fish like barbel, carp in the slightly larger sizes on a regular basis.

 

[Tim Ridge]

The problem for me is tearing hooks out because the rod is far too powerfull and far too flexible.. exactly why todays rods don't carry reccomendations for hook-links down to say 12oz (like the rods I would advocate). The use of unsuitable rods is (in my opinion) exactly why many experts recomend not going down to tiny hooks for big roach. This honestly wasn't a problem with a really fast action spliced tip float rods that were available years ago and when you struck the tip wasn't half a second behind the rest of the rod. I even suffer this (hook pulls) with size 12's (when trotting bread) with most of my more modern rods.

 

[tigger]

The problem for me is tearing hooks out because the rod is far too powerfull and far too flexible.. exactly why todays rods don't carry reccomendations for hook-links down to say 12oz (like the rods I would advocate). The use of unsuitable rods is (in my opinion) exactly why many experts recomend not going down to tiny hooks for big roach. This honestly wasn't a problem with a really fast action spliced tip float rods that were available years ago and when you struck the tip wasn't half a second behind the rest of the rod. I even suffer this (hook pulls) with size 12's (when trotting bread) with the horrible monstrosities that are currently available.

Tim, there are plenty of rods out there stating the recommended mainlines and hooklinks.
Here's an example of one recommending hooklinks down to 10 ounce....

Drennan IM8 Super Waggler float fishing rod | eBay

That rod is perfect for floatwork for roach, rivers or still as the advert stated. I have one myself and they're suerb, although I prefer my im9's in 13 and 14ft.

 

[Tim Ridge]

The problem for me is tearing hooks out because the rod is far too powerfull and far too flexible.. exactly why todays rods don't carry reccomendations for hook-links down to say 12oz (like the rods I would advocate). The use of unsuitable rods is (in my opinion) exactly why many experts recomend not going down to tiny hooks for big roach. This honestly wasn't a problem with a really fast action spliced tip float rods that were available years ago and when you struck the tip wasn't half a second behind the rest of the rod. I even suffer this (hook pulls) with size 12's (when trotting bread) with most of my more modern float rods.

Sorry posted twice, couldn't find a delete option

---------- Post added at 00:40 ---------- Previous post was at 00:23 ----------

Tigger, I already have several similar rods, and I acknowledge they are better in respect of hook pulls (because they are faster) than the more flexible (softer) alternatives (I've been forced to use something similar because I couldn't get hold of exactly what I wanted) but they don't solve the problems I've described entirely, least not for me they don't and it seems that Sam and Ron have similar experiences.

 

[tigger]

Tigger, I already have several similar rods, and I acknowledge they are better in respect of hook pulls (because they are faster) than the more flexible (softer) alternatives (I've been forced to use something similar because I couldn't get hold of exactly what I wanted) but they don't solve the problems I've described entirely, least not for me they don't and it seems that Sam and Ron have similar experiences.

Well Tim, respect m8 but you must be doing something wrong because using a rod like that one or similar shouldn't cause hook pulls, even if your bangin the hook home at range. Maybe it's your hooks causing the problem or possibly your line as I just can't see how it's down to the rod. I actually think there's more chance of a hook pull playing soft mouthed fish using a rod with a tippy action.

 

[Tim Ridge]

With respect tigger that is utter nonsense. A through action rod is a more powerfull lever.... a fact of physics. You can't exert so much pressure with a fast action rod because its a poor lever. I have proven this to hundreds of people over the years with a very simple test, one that is easy to duplicate in your own home. It is a fact that with one hand it is possible to exert as much (possibly even more) pressure with some through action float rods than it is with a really fast action CARP ROD! Yes that is a FACT tigger, one that you can try out for yourself with the help of a friend and a set of scales!

Try it and see.

 

[tigger]

With respect tigger that is utter nonsense. A through action rod is a more powerfull lever.... a fact of physics. You can't exert so much pressure with a fast action rod because its a poor lever. I have proven this to hundreds of people over the years with a very simple test, one that is easy to duplicate in your own home. It is a fact that with one hand it is possible to exert as much (possibly even more) pressure with some through action float rods than it is with a really fast action CARP ROD! Yes that is a FACT tigger, one that you can try out for yourself with the help of a friend and a set of scales!

Try it and see.

Tim, my take on it is that with a fast taper rod you only have the top section bending before you get the stiffer middle coming into play, so once a fish puts a small bend in the rod it then hits a solid spot with much less give or cushion. Obviously a through action rod doesn't have this sudden point of stiffness which imo could cause hook pulls particularly on soft mouthed fish. I have actually found this when out on the bank. I think there's less chance of a hook pulling when using a through action rod. At the end of the day m8 that's just my take on it and how it seems to me.