Alan Whitty
Well-known member
Having not bought either makes for probably 8 years or so I'm curious to know, do they supply a spare spool anymore, from what I gather many don't???
Shimano and Daiwa reels question....
- Thread starter Alan Whitty
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seth49
Well-known member
The Shimano bait runners I’ve bought over the last few years, although not for a couple of years do definitely.
seth49
Well-known member
Alan Whitty
Well-known member
Added to this spool issue, it has become Shimano's policy to have no anti reverse switch on new models(I remember a thread on this) , will they come to regret, or change that decision, who knows, it doesn't fit with my angling, in any shape or form, rather than a manufacturer supplying the consumers needs, they expect the consumer to change their practice to suit their product, sounds ridiculous...
mikench
Well-known member
Some do and some don’t. I’m sure my emcasts came with a spare spool but my Ninja and a GS did not. All my Shimano Baitrunners did and the 4000 size had spool reducers. The Ultegra also came with spool reducers along with a spare spool. I have bought many a spare spool for older Shimanos and my Daiwa TDM when the opportunity arose.
Alan Whitty
Well-known member
All my reels of any quality came with two spools, a couple had 3, why sell reels in this country without a spate spool, other than to rob you blind, even a Korum Axis which you can pick up a 4000 reel for £26.99, but a spare spool is £12-14, absurd costing!!!
You don't even get a spare wheel with your car these days.
I'm also out of touch with the latest or even recent reels. Aside from a bunch of Shimano's from the 90's, I have a couple of "new" ones, and each in its own way is inferior. A compact but gutless-feeling front drag with a handle that flops about inviting tangles, and an anti-reverse switch so small it needs a fingernail to locate it. And a much-praised rear drag, a Stradic C14 where the screw-in-direct handle can only be folded partially and the redesigned spool housing has brought back, after decades where their skirted spool design made it impossible, problems of line getting behind/under the spool. Both have unnecessary bling. I don't want any of the current crop I've seen and I'm hoping for a retro re-launch.
A disadvantage of relying on a bunch of old reels - I must have a a dozen Aero and Aero GTM's collected over decades - is that the gears eventually wear out, so can't be kept going with new bearings and bushes. But twenty odd years isn't bad and many are still fine. An advantage, while they're going, is you end up with a large number of interchangeable spools. Which is great, as long as you remember to label them!
I'm also out of touch with the latest or even recent reels. Aside from a bunch of Shimano's from the 90's, I have a couple of "new" ones, and each in its own way is inferior. A compact but gutless-feeling front drag with a handle that flops about inviting tangles, and an anti-reverse switch so small it needs a fingernail to locate it. And a much-praised rear drag, a Stradic C14 where the screw-in-direct handle can only be folded partially and the redesigned spool housing has brought back, after decades where their skirted spool design made it impossible, problems of line getting behind/under the spool. Both have unnecessary bling. I don't want any of the current crop I've seen and I'm hoping for a retro re-launch.
A disadvantage of relying on a bunch of old reels - I must have a a dozen Aero and Aero GTM's collected over decades - is that the gears eventually wear out, so can't be kept going with new bearings and bushes. But twenty odd years isn't bad and many are still fine. An advantage, while they're going, is you end up with a large number of interchangeable spools. Which is great, as long as you remember to label them!
Ray Roberts
Well-known member
I bought a Ninja from AD fairly recently they had two models in stock, the latest came without a spare spool. I weighed it up and the extra cost of a spare spool made it more expensive than the other that came with one. The Shimano reels I bought most recently came with a spare spool, but the price of extra spools made me wince.
mikench
Well-known member
I cannot understand how a spool can cost nearly 45% of the cost of the reel. I wait for a bargain on eBay or from abroad.
Alan Whitty
Well-known member
I agree with you Kev, for the last few years I've been using Cadence reels for the majority of my fishing, two CS7's and a CS10, the CS7 comes with two spools, the CS10 came with three(I'm not sure if that was as a deal after I'd chatted to James Robbins), all three came with reducers, plus a double and single handle, there are slight issues,but there always are, bearing in mind that the CS7's were on a bogof deal they worked out under 40 squid each, very cheap for a decent reel which was certainly worth the £79.99 retail price, the CS10 was I believe £109.99 and is a quality reel, almost certainly not as good as the £200 plus daiwa's and shimano's, but not a hundred quid away imho, and does such a high end reel catch you more fish, in 99% of cases no, would it win you a match, highly unlikely, a top match angler would win a match on a black Prince, its just a more pleasant experience...
Ray Roberts
Well-known member
The only reel I own that came with three spools as standard was a very nice Shimano Twin-power tri drag reel. It was expensive but I bought it on a special offer. All the spools were machined aluminium and I wouldn’t have wanted to pay the price they were if I had wanted one. It’s still one of my favourite reels and one of the most used it’s been an absolute work horse and has never missed a beat.
sam vimes
Well-known member
With both manufacturers, it depends entirely on the specific model in question. However, it's becoming increasingly safe to assume that reels from either won't be supplied with a spare spool. The reality is that increasing numbers of anglers have no requirement for a spare spool. Reels are bought for specific tasks, or even specific rods. Reels are bought, spools are filled with a certain line, and the reel is fitted to a rod. The combination goes into a sleeve/quiver/holdall and is rarely separated thereafter. For similar reasons, my local tackle shop has drawers full of rod bags from new purchases when customers don't want to take them home with their new rods.
I have several of these, including a couple that are yet to be used. They are fine (relatively) modern Shimano reels. Whilst the jury has to still be out on longevity, I'd also propose the current Aero XR as being a fine reel. However, I very much doubt that anyone who has been using a specific reel for 30+ years is unlikely to ever be entirely happy with any reel that's not exactly the same as the ones they are so utterly familiar with. I found exactly the same with a reel lacking an anti-reverse switch. I managed to use it perfectly well and it was an excellent reel However, forty years of habit meant that I couldn't stop myself reaching for a switch that wasn't there. In the end, I simply couldn't be bothered to force myself into unlearning something so ingrained.
It's not a matter of habit - in the same week I'm quite happy to use different fs's, a pin loaded to wind clockwise and a pin loaded to wind anti-clockwise. Adapting to a reel, if I want to is no issue. It's not a case of can't teach an old dog new tricks; more that you can't sell an old dog an inferior reel, and the many real, practical uses of optional anti-reverse have been explained on here a few times by those who make use of it.
I'm sure there are plenty of anglers who buy a reel for every rod and carry them like that. But I never carry float rods made up, and spare spools give flexibility about reel lines. I have spools of 2, 2.5, 3, 4 and 5lb for floatfishing and even different brands with different characteristics. As with the reel features, I don't want to be second-guessed by the makers, who might just be more interested in saving money and simplifying their product range than in giving me what I want.
sam vimes
Well-known member
To some extent, you're preaching to the choir and haven't really got that from my post. I do want spare spools with my reels, I just accept that I often have to buy them if I want them. I understand perfectly well the use of an anti-reverse switch. Despite largely being a drag user, there are still plenty of instances when I turn an anti-reverse off, if it's there to turn off. Precisely why I no longer use the switchless reel I put my money where my mouth was to try for myself. It was a good reel. I could get by without the switch. However, after reaching for a switch that wasn't there for the hundredth time, I called it quits. I didn't want to make do with a reel without an anti-reverse, no matter how good the reel was.
I wasn't berating anyone for their views, just giving reasons as to why some things are the way they are in the modern reel market. Most modern reels are not inferior. However, if they don't work the way that the reels you are used to do, they may as well be. If you like a switch of a certain size, one that's too small for your liking is inferior. If you like a reel that's weighty, a light one is going to feel inferior. You don't like the screw in handles, and I understand why, they certainly are less convenient. However, I know that they are mechanically superior. A little bit of elastic and velcro and any issue with them, when folded, goes away.
I think we all know a bit on here about each other's likes and dislikes. When you wrote " However, forty years of habit meant that I couldn't stop myself reaching for a switch that wasn't there. In the end, I simply couldn't be bothered to force myself into unlearning something so ingrained." it does suggest that you think the issue is one of the user adapting or not to the new design, whereas I see the new design as lacking something the user wants. A subtle but important difference that I like to keep on the table.
I definitely don't agree that the small switch on the front drag I bought is just too small "for my liking". It's too small for the job, as it can't be operated ]with ease in good conditions, and proved impossible in poor ones eg with wet or cold hands and a fish on. Including a switch that can't be used as it's made pointlessly too short is simply bad design and can't be pinned to my liking it or not, except in the sense that I like things that work.
I don't feel berated, and I hope you don't either. Yes, lots of modern gear is better. And yes, there are some nostalgic sticks in the mud. But there are also cases where the new, improved product turns out to be only new, and the drive to sell us new kit can entail changing things that work perfectly well and fixing things that aren't broken.
I definitely don't agree that the small switch on the front drag I bought is just too small "for my liking". It's too small for the job, as it can't be operated ]with ease in good conditions, and proved impossible in poor ones eg with wet or cold hands and a fish on. Including a switch that can't be used as it's made pointlessly too short is simply bad design and can't be pinned to my liking it or not, except in the sense that I like things that work.
I don't feel berated, and I hope you don't either. Yes, lots of modern gear is better. And yes, there are some nostalgic sticks in the mud. But there are also cases where the new, improved product turns out to be only new, and the drive to sell us new kit can entail changing things that work perfectly well and fixing things that aren't broken.
sam vimes
Well-known member
Here's the rub. I disagree entirely. I use the reels you have and several others with similarly small switches without any problems at all. I also have old Stradic GTMs and I now find the anti-reverse switch on them to be ridiculously oversized (the reels are also far too heavy and the spool diameters are far too small for my liking. All of these things are absolutely a matter of preference. I won't use them any longer, but the Stradic GTMs are still good reels. They no longer fit the preferences I've developed. I much prefer the modern Ci4+ Stradic. The opposite is true for you. The difference is that I can happily state that the old Stradic is an excellent reel even though it doesn't meet my modern preferences.
I fully accept that new doesn't necessarily mean better. That's often the case. However, I believe that your preferences are causing you to exaggerate somewhat. The idea that the smaller switches on modern reels mean that they are inoperable, or don't work, is just plain nonsense.
As for feeling got at, yes at times it does feel like you are jumping all over the most minor things I post as if they are always addressed directly to you. I really don't know what I've done to upset you so much. It's got to the point where I have no desire to interact with you. I can only suggest that you put me on ignore. Rest assured, if I'm addressing you, I'll quote your post and leave you no room for doubt.
Mark Wintle
Well-known member
One of the advantages of still using my many defunct Mitchell Matches is that I have lost count of the spare spools I have (40+????).
@Clive
Well-known member
I have most of my two piece rods set up with a perma reel and line through the guides when not in use. However, I would have no qualms about swapping a spool with braid on for one with mono or fs to 'pin if that was needed. Mostly the changes are made at home, before going fishing. As such I do like to have spare spools.
Regards the use of reels with different features; many years ago I worked in the car trade and could drive several different cars every day of every week. I could hop into any make, model, gearbox type and feel quite at home. In retirement at one time we had a lhd estate auto, a camping-car lhd with column change and a rhd van with floor mounted manual box. Again I could drive all three without thinking about it. Recently I drive 'my' 6 speed manual 95% of the time and find that I have to mentally re-orientate myself when driving the wife's auto estate. When I get a new to me vintage centrepin it takes about 4 or 5 trips before I get used to the reel. Same with the ABU fixed spools with 3 different a/r switches. So I get what both Kev and Chris are saying. In my opinion they are both right.
Regards the use of reels with different features; many years ago I worked in the car trade and could drive several different cars every day of every week. I could hop into any make, model, gearbox type and feel quite at home. In retirement at one time we had a lhd estate auto, a camping-car lhd with column change and a rhd van with floor mounted manual box. Again I could drive all three without thinking about it. Recently I drive 'my' 6 speed manual 95% of the time and find that I have to mentally re-orientate myself when driving the wife's auto estate. When I get a new to me vintage centrepin it takes about 4 or 5 trips before I get used to the reel. Same with the ABU fixed spools with 3 different a/r switches. So I get what both Kev and Chris are saying. In my opinion they are both right.
Alan Whitty
Well-known member
I have no problem with the small switches, I do however have a massive problem having none, if I am fishing with a fairly tight drag setting for barbel I don't expect to have to loosen it or open the bail to drop the lead, or get the netting length perfect, this is being done so as to make these reels usable for the sea in Australia and USA in the main, stopping salt water incursion to the innards...