Re Ade using 8oz, doesn't really surprise me and perhaps explains why he seems to catch more on the Waal than I do. Re fishing upstream I did try casting upstream with 200g on and it wasn't long before it was well downstream even with a decent amount of slack out. Next time I am on the river I will try a very long bow. I appreciate very much the advice been given but it is of course very difficult to really appreciate what the Waal is like unless you have fished it. It is a real beast at the best of times and when 3,000 to 12,000 ton barges pass by the water is churned into a maelstrom. A real challenge when I'm in the mood but not for every day!