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yoggy
Guest
he he,,,but you do talk alot of sense jeff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mark Wintle
Well-known member
The tie in between swan deaths, angling shot and boats was because swans need grit/pea gravel to grind up their food in their gizzards. Where there is plenty of gravel - no problem, but the constant boat wash in the small areas of shallows left by boat traffic washes away the lighter gravel leaving behind the shot. These poison the swans. On rivers where there was at least at much angling like Throop and the Royalty but no boat traffic there were never any swan deaths due to lead poisoning as there was always a superfluous of small gravel. Wessex Water Authority (precursor of NRA then EA in South West) never reported a single swan death due to lead shot.
The lead in fuel was never proven as a cause. The degraded diet of swans in navigable rivers due to weed being destroyed by increased siltation and bread feeding also weakened the swans.
For those advocating stones as weights our local Portland council are allegedly cracking down on those locals removing stones from Chesil Beach (home of several billion tons of suitable stones) mostly for their gardens!
My regret on lead shot has been losing no 6 and 4 for stick float fishing. I'd love to see dense substitutes for no 4, 6, 8 , 10.
The lead in fuel was never proven as a cause. The degraded diet of swans in navigable rivers due to weed being destroyed by increased siltation and bread feeding also weakened the swans.
For those advocating stones as weights our local Portland council are allegedly cracking down on those locals removing stones from Chesil Beach (home of several billion tons of suitable stones) mostly for their gardens!
My regret on lead shot has been losing no 6 and 4 for stick float fishing. I'd love to see dense substitutes for no 4, 6, 8 , 10.
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Wolfman Woody
Guest
I'll go along with what you say Mark, but nothing was ever proved conclusively as the killer. Except that lead shot was found and we were holding a smoking gun (so to speak).
I saw a bit on the news about Chesil Beach. Apparently, there's no more stones being washed up there, so they're stopping people from removing what's left. About time.
As for the shot, it's zinc down to size 6 and lead below that as zinc can't be made so pliable is the smallest sizes (source - Nigel May, Dinsmores). You're right about the 4s and 6s, zinc aren't as small for the same weight. You can see that by comparing a 6 with an 8 which is about half the size, yet the weight is 80% that of the 6.
I do appreciate the new weights even though they are 5 times more expensive. At least I have got rid of the attitude of 'use it and chuck it' (it used to go in my wast bag, not in the river btw).
... and I love swans!
I saw a bit on the news about Chesil Beach. Apparently, there's no more stones being washed up there, so they're stopping people from removing what's left. About time.
As for the shot, it's zinc down to size 6 and lead below that as zinc can't be made so pliable is the smallest sizes (source - Nigel May, Dinsmores). You're right about the 4s and 6s, zinc aren't as small for the same weight. You can see that by comparing a 6 with an 8 which is about half the size, yet the weight is 80% that of the 6.
I do appreciate the new weights even though they are 5 times more expensive. At least I have got rid of the attitude of 'use it and chuck it' (it used to go in my wast bag, not in the river btw).
... and I love swans!
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
I'm not a boffin on these things by any means Mark and I bow to your superior knowledge. How would you account for the fact that swans are still dying round Stratford due to lead poisoning?( and anglers are still being blamed by the way). Shooting can't be to blame either, not in the middle of Stratford on Avon.
I know its not for you to know the answer, but I think you will agree that if its not anglers or shooters then it would be reasonable to assume that it must be boats.
A spokesman for Stratford Borough council when challenged about swan deaths stated that 'anglers discarded lead shot was the cause and efforts were being made to get it banned'. This was only two or three years ago and when it was pointed out that lead had been banned for years in angling he said 'ah! but most anglers still use it'.
I know its not for you to know the answer, but I think you will agree that if its not anglers or shooters then it would be reasonable to assume that it must be boats.
A spokesman for Stratford Borough council when challenged about swan deaths stated that 'anglers discarded lead shot was the cause and efforts were being made to get it banned'. This was only two or three years ago and when it was pointed out that lead had been banned for years in angling he said 'ah! but most anglers still use it'.
Bryan Baron 2
Well-known member
Ask him were you can get it then ask him why they are still trading in a item that as been banned for years.
Yust shows the igonarance of a lot of people.
Yust shows the igonarance of a lot of people.
Mark Wintle
Well-known member
Just been digging around for info on record eel; no luck yet. But I did find a 1983 article by Walker re Stratford swans. He refuted anglers shot as being the cause and reckoned that it was lead in boat petrol, and that all the swans from Stratford had turned up at Leamington to get away from the navigable river.
If a statement like that made by the Stratford Council spokesman is made again then it ought to be challenged.
1. What autopsy results in the last two years prove that swans are dying from lead shot poisoning.
2. What size of shot is involved? Are they legal sizes or bigger ones? The grit that swans eat is generally BB to SSG size not no. 10s.
3. Has he arranged to go around with an EA baliff to check the anglers?; if most are using illegal shot then the baliff ought to have a field day.
4. Be aware that it is not unknown for anti anglers to actually seed waters with discarded shot; so much for being animal lovers.
5. If he can't substantiate his claims then he should be held up for what he is - a liar.
If a statement like that made by the Stratford Council spokesman is made again then it ought to be challenged.
1. What autopsy results in the last two years prove that swans are dying from lead shot poisoning.
2. What size of shot is involved? Are they legal sizes or bigger ones? The grit that swans eat is generally BB to SSG size not no. 10s.
3. Has he arranged to go around with an EA baliff to check the anglers?; if most are using illegal shot then the baliff ought to have a field day.
4. Be aware that it is not unknown for anti anglers to actually seed waters with discarded shot; so much for being animal lovers.
5. If he can't substantiate his claims then he should be held up for what he is - a liar.
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Wolfman Woody
Guest
Mark, is it possible to get a copy of that Walker article for "research" purposes, you understand. It's just that in 1982 I sent him a load of information from the phone calls I'd had with this man French. I know he mentioned swans a lot in the early 80's in his AT articles.
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Nigel Moors 2
Guest
I didn't get where I am today without being able to 'creep' Yoggy
Mark comments:
"My regret on lead shot has been losing no 6 and 4 for stick float fishing. I'd love to see dense substitutes for no 4, 6, 8 , 10."
You and I both!
"My regret on lead shot has been losing no 6 and 4 for stick float fishing. I'd love to see dense substitutes for no 4, 6, 8 , 10."
You and I both!
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jason fisher
Guest
"My regret on lead shot has been losing no 6 and 4 for stick float fishing. I'd love to see dense substitutes for no 4, 6, 8 , 10."
depleted uranium, with the added advantage that if you drop it you just have to sit round till dark and look for the glowing stone to find it again.
depleted uranium, with the added advantage that if you drop it you just have to sit round till dark and look for the glowing stone to find it again.
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yoggy
Guest
IF the alternative was to be either Bismuth or Tungsten i estimate that the cost of an average size lead could well be in the region of 4-7 quid!!!!!!!!,,imagine that everytime you got snagged up!!!!!!
Mark Wintle
Well-known member
Of course, all the commercial deep sea nets will have all of their lead weights replaced,ditto the long lines! Yeah right - I don't think so...
Uranium.. doesn't that degrade into lead eventually, might take a few million years though....?????
Uranium.. doesn't that degrade into lead eventually, might take a few million years though....?????
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jason fisher
Guest
yes it takes a while though, it should be buried before it converts. might be a bit of aproblem for the carp anglers though especially the ones who carry 50lb of leads, if they fell over on their pack carrying all that curry and beer they might explode.
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Frothey
Guest
depleted uranium isnt explosive thicky. massxspeed=kinetic energy. no way i'm gonna be moving fast loaded with ruby and stella....