J
jason fisher
Guest
sorry sash i got muddled up between certified and licenced.
THE FISHING EXAM...
- Thread starter Jeff
- Start date
S
sash
Guest
Easy mistake to make Jason.
P
Phil Hackett 2
Guest
Do you need an exam to ride a bike?
No!
Do you need an exam to go rambling?
No!
Do you need an exam to go birding?
NO!
Do you need an exam to go into the countryside?
No!
Should you need to pass an exam to go fishing
No!
All of the above have an impact and footprint on the environment and its wildlife, some far more so than angling!
Its education, education, education we need not some exam based on a multiple chose question sheet, which is only a test of memory and can be learned by rope.
No!
Do you need an exam to go rambling?
No!
Do you need an exam to go birding?
NO!
Do you need an exam to go into the countryside?
No!
Should you need to pass an exam to go fishing
No!
All of the above have an impact and footprint on the environment and its wildlife, some far more so than angling!
Its education, education, education we need not some exam based on a multiple chose question sheet, which is only a test of memory and can be learned by rope.
B
Bully
Guest
As with most things today we seem to blame the establishment rather than look at ourselves.
Today I heard that there are record levels of illiteracy. Blame the schools, blame the Government blah blah blah.
At 9:00pm I drove through my high street. We live in a pretty "respectable" part of Kent / London Borough. It was full of kids from the age of 8 - 15.
Call me old fashioned, but my 10 year old is lights off at 8:30pm, having ensured he reads one chapter of his book as a minimum, I then get him to tell me what happened.
When I once saw him drop a fish into the water I went spastic. With both of them they know they are grounded if I EVER see them drop one bit of litter.
Am I a "goodie two shoes?" I think not. I consider my obligation, for their own good as much as others.
What really, really f.....g pi....s me off is money being thrown after irresponsible parents who cannot be f.....g ars.d.
One day we will have a governement who wakes up to this fact.
Zero tolerance........bring it on.
So no to the exam then!
Today I heard that there are record levels of illiteracy. Blame the schools, blame the Government blah blah blah.
At 9:00pm I drove through my high street. We live in a pretty "respectable" part of Kent / London Borough. It was full of kids from the age of 8 - 15.
Call me old fashioned, but my 10 year old is lights off at 8:30pm, having ensured he reads one chapter of his book as a minimum, I then get him to tell me what happened.
When I once saw him drop a fish into the water I went spastic. With both of them they know they are grounded if I EVER see them drop one bit of litter.
Am I a "goodie two shoes?" I think not. I consider my obligation, for their own good as much as others.
What really, really f.....g pi....s me off is money being thrown after irresponsible parents who cannot be f.....g ars.d.
One day we will have a governement who wakes up to this fact.
Zero tolerance........bring it on.
So no to the exam then!
Sash,
Having a friendly word with somebody over the bad handling of fish as you say,or asking somebody to clear the litter they have dropped, or asking to see a license. Harmless enough requests aren't they? You would be surprised then, as to what can lead to violent threats.
Having a friendly word with somebody over the bad handling of fish as you say,or asking somebody to clear the litter they have dropped, or asking to see a license. Harmless enough requests aren't they? You would be surprised then, as to what can lead to violent threats.
J
John Lock
Guest
>Sash wrote,
>It's also law to carry a rod license but >most don't.
Then, by the same token, most wouldn't bother to take the test. I've fished for 32 years and never been asked for my licence, I expect the same thing would apply to being asked for my test pass.
>Phil wrote
>Its education .... we need not some >exam .... which is only a test of memory >and can be learned by rope.
I'm with you on this Phil, if the bastards won't behave, string the buggers up!
>It's also law to carry a rod license but >most don't.
Then, by the same token, most wouldn't bother to take the test. I've fished for 32 years and never been asked for my licence, I expect the same thing would apply to being asked for my test pass.
>Phil wrote
>Its education .... we need not some >exam .... which is only a test of memory >and can be learned by rope.
I'm with you on this Phil, if the bastards won't behave, string the buggers up!
alan
Well-known member
Bully, putting your kids to bed early, making them read books, and genarlly bringing them up so that they will have a chanceto do something with their lives is WRONG, you are supposed to let them run wild,and smash the place up etc, otherwise you are breeching their human rights.
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sash
Guest
"Do you need an exam to ride a bike?
No!
Do you need an exam to go rambling?
No!
Do you need an exam to go birding?
NO!
Do you need an exam to go into the countryside?
No!
Should you need to pass an exam to go fishing
No!"
But how many of the above leave litter when they're out n about Phil? How many disrespect their environment etc etc etc? Yes, there are individuals in every pastime that give it a bad name. I've seen twitchers plough through a protected marshland just to get a glimpse of the rare bird, I've seen ramblers drop litter, I've even seen an average member of the public tormenting wildlife for fun but it's anglers who have the greatest opportunity to cause destruction and to be perfectly honest, it's anglers that do so.
Stu, fully respect your stance (and admire it) but I'm afraid we've gone past the opportunity to educate on a grand level because, as you say, it's the teachers causing many of the problems, not the pupils.
Jeff mentioned Germany as an example. Take Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Holland and a number of other European countries - they allow angling, they allow fish to be returned and yet litter is rare. You will not find cleaner river / lake banks anywhere. So how have they done it? Through education, en masse, years and years ago pushed by the governments (and backed up by fines that were adhered to).
I fully agree with you all, education is the right way to go but it will not happen on the major scale required in this country.
No!
Do you need an exam to go rambling?
No!
Do you need an exam to go birding?
NO!
Do you need an exam to go into the countryside?
No!
Should you need to pass an exam to go fishing
No!"
But how many of the above leave litter when they're out n about Phil? How many disrespect their environment etc etc etc? Yes, there are individuals in every pastime that give it a bad name. I've seen twitchers plough through a protected marshland just to get a glimpse of the rare bird, I've seen ramblers drop litter, I've even seen an average member of the public tormenting wildlife for fun but it's anglers who have the greatest opportunity to cause destruction and to be perfectly honest, it's anglers that do so.
Stu, fully respect your stance (and admire it) but I'm afraid we've gone past the opportunity to educate on a grand level because, as you say, it's the teachers causing many of the problems, not the pupils.
Jeff mentioned Germany as an example. Take Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Holland and a number of other European countries - they allow angling, they allow fish to be returned and yet litter is rare. You will not find cleaner river / lake banks anywhere. So how have they done it? Through education, en masse, years and years ago pushed by the governments (and backed up by fines that were adhered to).
I fully agree with you all, education is the right way to go but it will not happen on the major scale required in this country.
S
sash
Guest
Guys,
The German test is not just a test of memory. A lot of it is practical based. The test was in force a few years before the "kill all fish" ruling came about.
The German test is not just a test of memory. A lot of it is practical based. The test was in force a few years before the "kill all fish" ruling came about.
W
Wolfman Woody
Guest
Before we all get out of our prams over this, it's an emotive subject, let me say that an answer (I believe) lies somewhere in what you are all saying.
The answer like Phil says is in education. Communication to the members of clubs for a start, but not in a way that is confrontational. However, if after trying some members are found to be violating the environment they should be expelled - PERMANENTLY! I have no sympathies for people who should have more sense.
Other countries - yes, a lot neater than ours in many respects. I had a friend lived in a block of flats in Holland and the first time he invited me to his home I feared the worst. I had previously seen soem of the flats in Salford. In Holland, their flats are like the posh apartments you find up the west end of London. They're superb and yet on a par with council flats, ie rented, not privately owned. So there is a general difference in character make up too.
(Not saying all Council flat dwellers are untidy, btw. Some are very smart people let down by others.)
NFA coaches can charge for their services if they wish, Baz, but you being of such a generous nature, I thought you'd be the first to give your time freely.
)
And Sash, If I had a pound for every kid (and some adults) I've taught in my time it would more than clear off the wife's credit card account. I have my step-grandson of 11 starting next year, but that's it. Because of our perverse laws, it's family only from now on.
The EA in your area might sponsor you to become a qualified tutor btw.
The answer like Phil says is in education. Communication to the members of clubs for a start, but not in a way that is confrontational. However, if after trying some members are found to be violating the environment they should be expelled - PERMANENTLY! I have no sympathies for people who should have more sense.
Other countries - yes, a lot neater than ours in many respects. I had a friend lived in a block of flats in Holland and the first time he invited me to his home I feared the worst. I had previously seen soem of the flats in Salford. In Holland, their flats are like the posh apartments you find up the west end of London. They're superb and yet on a par with council flats, ie rented, not privately owned. So there is a general difference in character make up too.
(Not saying all Council flat dwellers are untidy, btw. Some are very smart people let down by others.)
NFA coaches can charge for their services if they wish, Baz, but you being of such a generous nature, I thought you'd be the first to give your time freely.
)And Sash, If I had a pound for every kid (and some adults) I've taught in my time it would more than clear off the wife's credit card account. I have my step-grandson of 11 starting next year, but that's it. Because of our perverse laws, it's family only from now on.
The EA in your area might sponsor you to become a qualified tutor btw.
B
Bully
Guest
Sash - I am saying the opposite. Its not the teachers, never has been.
True the standards may be lower in teaching, but only because we have let it become de-valued and therefore it does not attract people who are as motivated as they should.
One of two main reasons is the complete inability of teachers to discipline and the lack of willingness (my English teacher would go mad) of parents to uphold these standards and get their children understanding the importance of education.
I agree totally with your view on fines etc on the continent, however in say Denmark, you be treated like a leper if you dropped litter.
I am quite signed up to having a classless society, but I am convinced Mr Labour is creating a bigger divide (another debate).
Back to the point. If any parent allows children to fish, they should be saying respect the wildlife, dont drop litter. And when little Johny comes home having been nabbed by Mr Plod (as if) cough up a heavy fine.......
True the standards may be lower in teaching, but only because we have let it become de-valued and therefore it does not attract people who are as motivated as they should.
One of two main reasons is the complete inability of teachers to discipline and the lack of willingness (my English teacher would go mad) of parents to uphold these standards and get their children understanding the importance of education.
I agree totally with your view on fines etc on the continent, however in say Denmark, you be treated like a leper if you dropped litter.
I am quite signed up to having a classless society, but I am convinced Mr Labour is creating a bigger divide (another debate).
Back to the point. If any parent allows children to fish, they should be saying respect the wildlife, dont drop litter. And when little Johny comes home having been nabbed by Mr Plod (as if) cough up a heavy fine.......
S
sash
Guest
Jeff,
Didn't mean you re the "shout about it" comment by the way. Apologies if you took it that way but it was meant as a general statement.
"The EA in your area might sponsor you to become a qualified tutor btw." - I'd rather continue as I am to be perfectly honest, teach where I can, tidy up where it's needed etc.
Fully agree with you re the clubs expelling rule breakers. It's probably also why I'm now a member of more private clubs and syndicates than ever before, just to get some peaceful fishing in unspoilt surroundings with a set of commonsense rules that come down hard on people should they do something to spoil those surroundings.
Didn't mean you re the "shout about it" comment by the way. Apologies if you took it that way but it was meant as a general statement.
"The EA in your area might sponsor you to become a qualified tutor btw." - I'd rather continue as I am to be perfectly honest, teach where I can, tidy up where it's needed etc.
Fully agree with you re the clubs expelling rule breakers. It's probably also why I'm now a member of more private clubs and syndicates than ever before, just to get some peaceful fishing in unspoilt surroundings with a set of commonsense rules that come down hard on people should they do something to spoil those surroundings.
S
sash
Guest
Stu,
Sorry, didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean teachers as in school but people who teach manners, respect etc ie parents teaching kids. In my opinion whatever background one has it doesn't stop the basic values being taught and that starts at home.
Sorry, didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean teachers as in school but people who teach manners, respect etc ie parents teaching kids. In my opinion whatever background one has it doesn't stop the basic values being taught and that starts at home.
B
Bully
Guest
Ah - I see, you had me worried !!
W
Wolfman Woody
Guest
Sash I think most people that teach angling to kids in general don't shout about it. I mentioned my part only because some people on here get the wrong idea at times.
As for the EA bit. You say "I'd rather continue as I am..." That's what I thought, but because of the new PC laws it may not be possible. It's something we (the TVAA of which I'm secretary) are looking into because education is part of the agreement we have with the EA for the Jubilee River.
As for the EA bit. You say "I'd rather continue as I am..." That's what I thought, but because of the new PC laws it may not be possible. It's something we (the TVAA of which I'm secretary) are looking into because education is part of the agreement we have with the EA for the Jubilee River.
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sash
Guest
Jeff,
Have a look at the thread re a Pike teach in started by Mick Parkinson in the General Forum. It's a point I've raised there as well.
Have a look at the thread re a Pike teach in started by Mick Parkinson in the General Forum. It's a point I've raised there as well.
Mick Parkinson
New member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2004
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I bet theres more angling clubs with day ticket waters have regular matches than what commercials or lake owners do. How many lake owners actually hold teach in sessions and let the kids fish for free on these days? I'd bet not many compared to the clubs.
As most of the newcomers to our sport are going straight into carp annd commercials it makes sense to hold these days for them. We get about 10 kids turn up to our junior matches but thats all they got. If you started holding them on commercials, bet the numbers of attendance would rise. Would the lake owners give up a ?5 day ticket though to teach and safeguard our sport?
The idea of an exam would be nice if you could trust everyone to take it, how hard would it be to get a dodgy exam paper etc, lol.
Teach the kids from the start and when there older they look after the sport and hopefully look after the adults that come into it. As Sash quite rightly said, alot of the troubles from the adults.
Theres no quick solution to this problem.
As most of the newcomers to our sport are going straight into carp annd commercials it makes sense to hold these days for them. We get about 10 kids turn up to our junior matches but thats all they got. If you started holding them on commercials, bet the numbers of attendance would rise. Would the lake owners give up a ?5 day ticket though to teach and safeguard our sport?
The idea of an exam would be nice if you could trust everyone to take it, how hard would it be to get a dodgy exam paper etc, lol.
Teach the kids from the start and when there older they look after the sport and hopefully look after the adults that come into it. As Sash quite rightly said, alot of the troubles from the adults.
Theres no quick solution to this problem.
Ok, so my idea of an Exam has been frowned upon... I have to look at some peoples comments as a little silly.
Who mentioned the fact that the number of anglers would decrease to only 1 million if an exam came into force? Well to answer that then how many of you that have looked at this thread WOULD choose to buy one if it became compulsary, or would you give up fishing?
Also someone mentioned that ALL Germans kill the fish that they catch... Spoke to them all have you, met every one, speaking on behalf of a nation are you??? ;0)
Education has been strongly mentioned throughout this thread. I still stand by my previous words in that A good way to educate would be to attend a theory and PRECTICLE exam. SOme of you have said that a lot of people could not be bothered to take the exam, Well do we really want anglers on the bank who simingly DON'T CARE?
Someone rightly mentioned that tackling problems in house is the best way forward... Well with the rapid rate at which money spinning commercial waters are cropping up I feel that we are sitting on a time-bomb. It is only a matter of time until the non-angling community see's the condition that the MINOTIRY of badly run and neglected waters is. Well, in my original arguement I aimed to focus on the way that the water owners do not enforce their rules. How many times this summer did I see a group of young lads being questioned by the baliff for not having an un-hooking mat... There is me expecting them to be asked to leave the water but no, the baliff tells them to make sure they bring one on their next visit being blinded by the 5 or 6 ?10 day tickets that he surely can't turn away!!!
Like it or not chaps, it is a reality in some of the darkest corners of this country. Like I said, it is only a matter of time until it comes to light outside the angling community and then we will have a problem that we are maybe not given the OPPORTUNITY to control...
Who mentioned the fact that the number of anglers would decrease to only 1 million if an exam came into force? Well to answer that then how many of you that have looked at this thread WOULD choose to buy one if it became compulsary, or would you give up fishing?
Also someone mentioned that ALL Germans kill the fish that they catch... Spoke to them all have you, met every one, speaking on behalf of a nation are you??? ;0)
Education has been strongly mentioned throughout this thread. I still stand by my previous words in that A good way to educate would be to attend a theory and PRECTICLE exam. SOme of you have said that a lot of people could not be bothered to take the exam, Well do we really want anglers on the bank who simingly DON'T CARE?
Someone rightly mentioned that tackling problems in house is the best way forward... Well with the rapid rate at which money spinning commercial waters are cropping up I feel that we are sitting on a time-bomb. It is only a matter of time until the non-angling community see's the condition that the MINOTIRY of badly run and neglected waters is. Well, in my original arguement I aimed to focus on the way that the water owners do not enforce their rules. How many times this summer did I see a group of young lads being questioned by the baliff for not having an un-hooking mat... There is me expecting them to be asked to leave the water but no, the baliff tells them to make sure they bring one on their next visit being blinded by the 5 or 6 ?10 day tickets that he surely can't turn away!!!
Like it or not chaps, it is a reality in some of the darkest corners of this country. Like I said, it is only a matter of time until it comes to light outside the angling community and then we will have a problem that we are maybe not given the OPPORTUNITY to control...
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NottmDon
Guest
Its a quaint idea but gleaned from the best intentions. Education is the answer to a degree. With lots af angling clubs and societies closing down there are fewer outlets for young and not so young uns to have the benefit of an experienced angler to show them the ropes. Rather than an exam maybe a mentor to show new comers the basics for a few sessions, mentors to be funded via the fishing license fees we pay.
I always take time to help anyone on the banks even if its a kid who is after a hook as hes run out as long as he uses manners, but I've seen and experienced grumpy anglers who are as miserable as f--- if you even say hello and ask if their having a good day. I wonder how many prospective anglers these twats put right off? Im all for anything that gets more people fishing and teaching them to respect what they catch and the environment they are in. Being a little cynical I have to agree if government got involved in anyway whatsoever all theyd be interested in would be making cash out of it and bringing in new laws legislation and political correctness that would result in fishing becoming a bloody nightmare. I think there are one or two mentoring schemes going on around the country now but most are funded by the people who run the schemes with little outside help and of course if you want to work with kids in particular then you have to be vetted and all that stuff now, which I suppose makes the average angler a little reticent to get bogged down with all this PC crap and think "sod it".
I always take time to help anyone on the banks even if its a kid who is after a hook as hes run out as long as he uses manners, but I've seen and experienced grumpy anglers who are as miserable as f--- if you even say hello and ask if their having a good day. I wonder how many prospective anglers these twats put right off? Im all for anything that gets more people fishing and teaching them to respect what they catch and the environment they are in. Being a little cynical I have to agree if government got involved in anyway whatsoever all theyd be interested in would be making cash out of it and bringing in new laws legislation and political correctness that would result in fishing becoming a bloody nightmare. I think there are one or two mentoring schemes going on around the country now but most are funded by the people who run the schemes with little outside help and of course if you want to work with kids in particular then you have to be vetted and all that stuff now, which I suppose makes the average angler a little reticent to get bogged down with all this PC crap and think "sod it".
I don't want to give the impression that I am blaming the kids for this decline in care and knowledge... Far from it...
In the example I just gave about the young lads being questioned about not having an un-hooking mat. Well IF those kids had been sent home and told not to come back without the right, required kit then sure enough they would have to get themselves a mat if they wanted to keep fishing!
Sterner enforement of rules is required but if the lake owners kicked enery person off the water that did not have a neccessary piece of kit of was breaking a rule then they could loose half of their daily revenue and they are simply not prepared to do this. BUT, if they were to bare the brunt of loosing some money for the year or so that it took perspective anglers to finnaly realise that they could not bend the rules then, sure enough would find more responsible, correctly kitted-out attending their water!
I have just bought a puppy and I read in a book that you should educate the puppy not punish the dog. If you let him get away with chewing your old slippers then don't shout at him when he chews up your new work shoes... Same principle is that people will always push their luck IF THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT!!!
In the example I just gave about the young lads being questioned about not having an un-hooking mat. Well IF those kids had been sent home and told not to come back without the right, required kit then sure enough they would have to get themselves a mat if they wanted to keep fishing!
Sterner enforement of rules is required but if the lake owners kicked enery person off the water that did not have a neccessary piece of kit of was breaking a rule then they could loose half of their daily revenue and they are simply not prepared to do this. BUT, if they were to bare the brunt of loosing some money for the year or so that it took perspective anglers to finnaly realise that they could not bend the rules then, sure enough would find more responsible, correctly kitted-out attending their water!
I have just bought a puppy and I read in a book that you should educate the puppy not punish the dog. If you let him get away with chewing your old slippers then don't shout at him when he chews up your new work shoes... Same principle is that people will always push their luck IF THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT!!!