The tackle shop rig display

[terry m]

sorry sam i did say i'm not against carpers and meant no malice my friend, I do think to some extent that the carp fishing world has spoilt fishing , in a way all its done is made the fish harder to catch , by introducing them to too much choice. Boilies , pellets ,all manner of self invented and good money making idea,s have given the fish unlimited amounts of food choice , there fore making them more choosey and finicky about what they eat. Go to most carp lakes now and they dont know what a worm or maggot looks like , but not only lakes is it , the carp world has now spread to the rivers too. So in fact now instead of spending a few bob on some bread maggots and free worms from the garden ,poor old me has to spend a bloody fortune on some man made **** just to catch some roach. Its not the carpers fault its all the hype and rubbish invented by the money making fishing industry thats done it. I have never in my life of fishing used a boily and i dont intend to start now i use a few pellets but thats only because if i dont i dont catch simple as that. Money god it ruins everything , and one more moan , whoever invented the bolt rig wants shooting ,fish trapping is all it is , self hooking cant get away trap, thats not fishing. tight lines all.

A good post Chubberbob, but I disagree with much of what you have said, although I accept the spirit in which you have said it. I remember in the 70s when if you caught 5 carp in a season you had a decent return. And if one of those was a 20 then hell you did great!! Carp angling has changed beyond all recognition. In the early 70s carp anglers were a tiny minority of obsessed fools - me included - and they camped for weeks waiting for a run whilst the other anglers were happy to catch a bag of silverfish. The hair rig, the bolt rig and the boilie has changed that, and now the guy happy to catch a bag of silverfish is in the minority. Is it right or wrong? Who cares, the reality is that is how it is.

Fishing is no different to anything else, it follows market forces and it will follow the supply and demand needs.

In actual fact I am not a 'serious' carp angler, I do however seriously fish for carp during the non-piking months. And take a look around most tackle shops, look at what they stock. Floor and shelf space is of a premium, it needs to give the proprietor a return. The fact that a large proportion of that space is occupied by carp biased products should tell us all we need to know.

 

[chav professor]

I am happy to embrace all types of fishing - though my primary passion remains Chub.

carp fisheries offer first class silver fishing - no one bothers with them... there are hidden gems out there that only require on the whole, the simplest of methods.

You can still catch carp of any size on bread - if anything at an advantage of those fishing 'going' methods. In fact the less riggy you get - the better!

Tomorrow I am bolt rigging for carp/bream/tench - far too blowy to enjoy wagler fishing.... weekend? Might enjoy a few sessions on the float or in-deed catching a few carp on bread or lobs. All methods require water craft and sometimes its nice just to be there. I do get a thrill from a buzzer erupting into life. Its different from interpreting a bite on the tip from a chub or a float disappearing... but its all fun.

Roll on June 16th... Pets at Home are going to do stella business (50 giant locust for £15, got used to how to keep them - but in all probability they won't last weeks) ) - will even clear the garden of snails. Stalking Chub is the nuts!

The methods continually evolve, but the fish are the same!

Fishing is like fashion... it all comes around again.... I guess we will see some 'traditional anglers' wearing flares sporting the classic monkey climbers and vintage glass fibre rods camping out overnight on a lilo underneath a brolley sometime soon - giving it old skool!

You see, Poor old Chris yates is now out of fashion - with his cane rods..... (still one of the most naturally gifted carp anglers on the planet in my humble opinion).....

---------- Post added at 23:42 ---------- Previous post was at 23:29 ----------

I will just add - fishing has always emptied anglers wallets.... its just that anglers disposable cash has increased in line with other recreational sports.

 

[captainbarnacles]

Dear chav , you somewhat dissapoint me in the use of the bolt rig to trap a fish , a self appointed chub master using such tactics to get a fish. What has happened to the angler that gives a fish a fair chance , to my mind iv'e always intended to pit my wits against a fish , to find it first and to use tackle that enables a fish to out wit me , meaning if i'm not on the ball and fast enough on the strike then he gets his way , what happened to the running rig has it gone forever because we cant be bothered to give full concentration to our sport , half the pleasure of fishing surely is to sit behind a float or quiver waiting for that elusive bite. Sorry i just cant get my head round it. Someone has already stated that they have great respect for carp anglers who sat up trees and on top of shed roofs and walked the banks for ages and prob used a calculator to work out the best way to catch a carp , but iv'e been there done that catching roach ,dace , chub , perch and any other species iv'e been after were all in the same boat , but when i go home i know after a fishing spell i know that whatever iv'e caught i caught it fair and square. So after all that moaning can anyone give me a valid reason for useing a bolt rig , and i dont mean because you cant stay awake for days waiting for a bite , thats your fault , not a valid reason. Tight lines all.

 

[flightliner]

(50 giant locust for £15,

Whaaaat-- aaaa muuuuch!. Jeez chav, they breed em on an industrial estate near me, lots cheaper direct.:wh

 

[sam vimes]

can anyone give me a valid reason for useing a bolt rig.

Try fishing at extreme range on big, deep and windswept gravel pits and see just how little indication you'll get on a running rig. A stretchy mono coupled with a bowed line caused by a strong undertow might allow a fish to move a few yards with a bait in its mouth without any indication whatsoever.
Even at lesser ranges in less than perfect conditions, they turn tentative pick ups, that often give no indication whatsoever, into full blooded takes. Bolt rigs aren't necessarily about kipping, you could kip just as easily using a running rig. In fact, If kipping is your main priority, you may actually be better served by using a running rig.

 

[captainbarnacles]

So why with the same amount of lead on a bolt rig be any dif to a running rig in terms of line stretch and bows in line . And a bolt rig is what it say's it is because its a fixed lead it causes the hook to prick the fish or kipping as you call it which causes the fish to bolt.simple as that

 

[sam vimes]

So why with the same amount of lead on a bolt rig be any dif to a running rig in terms of line stretch and bows in line .

As the name of the rig suggests, it causes the fish to bolt. A fish on a running rig won't feel the full weight of the lead, a fish on a fixed or semi fixed bolt rig will. The tentative pick up and pluck you may (or may not see) on a running rig, is more likely to turn into a full blooded take with a bolt rig. When fishing at range with the effects of line stretch and tow added to the equation, you need that full blooded take to stand a chance of seeing any indication. Fish at range with a running rig and you can be wide awake sitting on top of your rods yet still get no indication of even a half decent take.

However, you don't actually seem to want to take my word for it. I get it, you've got a bit of a thing about bolt rigs and those that use them. Please don't ask for explanations if all you want to do is argue the toss.

P.S. I've no idea what you think I mean by "kipping" but it means sleeping.

 

[captainbarnacles]

well i do respect your views , but still dont agree your right , but thats just me i suppose , stick in the mud chubber. Tight lines , sorry just read your p.s yeh well i dont sleep when i,m fishing . lol

 

[chav professor]

well i do respect your views , but still dont agree your right , but thats just me i suppose , stick in the mud chubber. Tight lines , sorry just read your p.s yeh well i dont sleep when i,m fishing . lol

Nice reposts Chubberbob.... its about respecting each others views and yet still having an opinion.

Self confessed chub master - Nah....just very enthusiastic about the little rascals

 

[cg74]

Dear chav , you somewhat dissapoint me in the use of the bolt rig to trap a fish , a self appointed chub master using such tactics to get a fish. What has happened to the angler that gives a fish a fair chance , to my mind iv'e always intended to pit my wits against a fish , to find it first and to use tackle that enables a fish to out wit me , meaning if i'm not on the ball and fast enough on the strike then he gets his way , what happened to the running rig has it gone forever because we cant be bothered to give full concentration to our sport , half the pleasure of fishing surely is to sit behind a float or quiver waiting for that elusive bite. Sorry i just cant get my head round it. Someone has already stated that they have great respect for carp anglers who sat up trees and on top of shed roofs and walked the banks for ages and prob used a calculator to work out the best way to catch a carp , but iv'e been there done that catching roach ,dace , chub , perch and any other species iv'e been after were all in the same boat , but when i go home i know after a fishing spell i know that whatever iv'e caught i caught it fair and square. So after all that moaning can anyone give me a valid reason for useing a bolt rig , and i dont mean because you cant stay awake for days waiting for a bite , thats your fault , not a valid reason. Tight lines all.

I'm the same as Chav P in so much as my favourite species is by far and away is the humble chub. With my preferred methods being legering using a soft quiver tip, stalking using freelined baits and trotting (though I seldom do the latter these days).

You ask for a "valid reason" for using bolt rigs, firstly I'm happy using them, so that in itself is validity enough and secondly why would you expect others to conform with your ideology?

Fishing dendras for bream, simply hook a large one (or two) through its head using a regular size 8 or 10 hook (Drennan Carbon Specimen or a Kamasan B980), use a fixed lead, semi fixed or running rig it doesn't really matter they'll hang themselves just the same.
Upstream feeder fishing for barbel, the barbel picks up your bait in doing so dislodges the feeder and BANG the weight of the feeder has set your hook.

I take it the two techniques detailed above are ruled out of your box of tricks on the grounds of ethics?

 

[chav professor]

I'm the same as Chav P in so much as my favourite species is by far and away is the humble chub. With my preferred methods being legering using a soft quiver tip, stalking using freelined baits and trotting (though I seldom do the latter these days).

Thats the way I roll - pretty hard to beat IMO.... Though I would chuck in a bobbin from time to time.

I am certain I read somewhere (might have been here - No... it was facebook) the opinion that it was unsporting to fish for visible Chub

I would just add there are far more gifted Chub anglers on FM than myself - its just that they hide their light under a bushel

 

[nicepix]

well i do respect your views , but still dont agree your right , but thats just me i suppose , stick in the mud chubber. Tight lines , sorry just read your p.s yeh well i dont sleep when i,m fishing . lol

What Sam has described is correct. It doesn't matter how much bow or stretch there is in the line between the lead and rod. The idea is that the fish picks up the bait, moves away from the weight and is effectively hooked. The idea being that the weight is heavy enough to cause the bait to pull from the fish's mouth and hopefully catch the hook in its lips on the way out.

The fish then usually makes off at speed. Even bream will run after being hooked on a bolt rig. The bobbin is there to indicate slack line bites if the fish runs back toward the angler dragging the lead with it.

The rig was originally designed for hooking carp at very long ranges where bites would not indicate as well and the stretch in the angler's line would reduce the chance of the angler hooking the fish. It has been horribly mis-used granted, but the original reason for it's invention is still relevant to some types of fishing.

---------- Post added at 21:04 ---------- Previous post was at 21:01 ----------

Thats the way I roll - pretty hard to beat IMO.... Though I would chuck in a bobbin from time to time.

I am certain I read somewhere (might have been here - No... it was facebook) the opinion that it was unsporting to fish for visible Chub

I'd like to know who said that? One of the hardest techniques I've tried is stalking decent sized chub in clear water. They are like sheep - eyes everywhere and prone to scatter at the slightest thing.

 

[captainbarnacles]

CG74 i dont expect anyone to conform or even agree with me just putting my point of view , and i never fish with any rig ie feeder ,lead or whatever mine are always free running on a swivel. Free lining , touch ledgering , or running a float through what a great day to spend chubbing. and i never said it was unethical. tight lines

---------- Post added at 12:51 ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 ----------

on a lighter note chav prof ,if thats the case iv'e been unsportingly catching chub on quite a few occasions , lol , nothing like chubbing in gin clear water . There is a stretch i fish where mostly i get told oooooo you wont catch those mate not when its clear , but i find if you approach nice and quite , and just feed constant for half an hour or maybe sometimes i,ll sit for an hour just feeding getting there confidence before even attempting to put a line in , then you have every chance , go like a bull in a china shop and start fishing right away , you may a well go home ,lol , a nice cuppa and a bit of patience is all that is needed.And if i have offended anyone with my comments , they are just comments not gods law. tight lines

 

[chav professor]

No offense mate... were all brothers of the angle Its a broad church... different folks, different strokes and all that.

---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:13 ----------

Whaaaat-- aaaa muuuuch!. Jeez chav, they breed em on an industrial estate near me, lots cheaper direct.:wh

BTW flight, give us the address... we use Locust in school - except they have to come from an approved source.... ONE POUND SEVENTY FIVE PENCE EACH!!!!

 

[flightliner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by flightliner
Whaaaat-- aaaa muuuuch!. Jeez chav, they breed em on an industrial estate near me, lots cheaper direct.

BTW flight, give us the address... we use Locust in school - except they have to come from an approved source.... ONE POUND SEVENTY FIVE PENCE EACH!!!!
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Next time i,m passing the industrial estate I,ll try to remember and get the address Chav, that or do a yellow page thing.

 

[Frothey]

He is the top of the tree Peter, I missed my chance, as I used to make my own un hooking mats before you could buy them! As well as hangers!!!mg:

Haven't seen people with flouro Muppets on their hangers for many a year Kev. I was actually thinking about making some the other day.....

 

[cg74]

CG74 i dont expect anyone to conform or even agree with me just putting my point of view , and i never fish with any rig ie feeder ,lead or whatever mine are always free running on a swivel. Free lining , touch ledgering , or running a float through what a great day to spend chubbing. and i never said it was unethical. tight lines

---------- Post added at 12:51 ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 ----------

on a lighter note chav prof ,if thats the case iv'e been unsportingly catching chub on quite a few occasions , lol , nothing like chubbing in gin clear water . There is a stretch i fish where mostly i get told oooooo you wont catch those mate not when its clear , but i find if you approach nice and quite , and just feed constant for half an hour or maybe sometimes i,ll sit for an hour just feeding getting there confidence before even attempting to put a line in , then you have every chance , go like a bull in a china shop and start fishing right away , you may a well go home ,lol , a nice cuppa and a bit of patience is all that is needed.And if i have offended anyone with my comments , they are just comments not gods law. tight lines

At the risk of being accused of pedantry and/or starting an argument. You say you don't use a "rig" but what you've described for your legering is a running rig.
I'd also suggest there's some confusion as to what actually constitutes a bolt rig and a self hooking rig.
In short, a bolt rig is simply a set up where the fish feels the hook, panics and bolts, setting the hook against a fixed or semi-fixed weight. In the case of carp its efficacy is greatly improved when used in conjunction with a hair-rigged bait.
Whereas a self hooking rig should offer pretty much the same end result it can achieve this without the weight being fixed, as with my barbel and bream examples, which can and in my fishing ARE fished fully free running.
If you look at the bream rig I described, it is reliant on no trickery and is as simple and basic as set ups come, with the exception of freelining. Here's a pic of said rig: http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/files.php?file=Running_rig_1_508955321.jpg
It could be made even simpler; just slide a lead onto your mainline, then a grippa stop and finally a hook.

You're right, you never mentioned ethics or ideology, they were my words but my understanding of; ethics: a set of morals that governs a persons behaviour, and ideology: a set of beliefs, ideas and ideals of a person(s).
They both seem appropriate words, especially when you're asking folk to offer validation for using a technique.

Sorry if this seems a tad terse, it's just the way I write....

 

[captainbarnacles]

No arguments here my friend just a dif of opinion ,and yes your right i do use that very same rig you describe , what i should have said is that i never have never used a fixed rig of any kind. i stand corrected.

 

[sam vimes]

No arguments here my friend just a dif of opinion ,and yes your right i do use that very same rig you describe , what i should have said is that i never have never used a fixed rig of any kind. i stand corrected.

You do realise that a modern bolt rig isn't fixed, don't you? I have never, ever used a fixed rig, there's just no need to with all those lovely rig bits available which, it would seem, many feel are unneccessary.
What I described earlier as a valid reason for using bolt rigs isn't a question of opinion, it's a matter of fact. I fully accept your choice not use such rigs, that's your prerogative. However, denying the validity of the explanation isn't opinion, it's just arguing the toss.

 

[captainbarnacles]

ok sam , point taken guess i better look at some of the rigs they use today then , never know i might change me mind , but i,m a senile old git and it might be too late lol.