Understanding Match Fishing....or Not.

[cg74]

i think what Maverick means is the fish was bought in very quickly , I understood what he mean't , but , and this is a genuine question , does it harm a fish to be bought in quickly anyway ? Does it put too much pressure on the hook ?

Benny, it's too vast a topic to cover with such generalised boundaries.

Bream are about the laziest fish in our waters, you put reasonable pressure against them and they flip over offering very little resistance at all.

 

[law]

Bring the fish in as quick as possible, or play it to the point of exhaustion, I know which I prefer to practise.

There is quite a difference between doing that to a 6oz roach and a 15lb plus carp.
How are you going to control a 15lb carp that's flapping around while trying to unhook it?

 

[maverick 7]

I apologise (profusely) for making a 'smart-arsed' comment. It was just a joke. Lighten up!

Regarding the issue - I'm very much in agreement with your points.

OK Rich....I will lighten up in future for you...it wasn't really aimed at you personally anyway...even though it quoted your response.... it was just a general remark at the kind of replies it was attracting... that's all.

Glad you see my point of the thread too.....

Maverick

---------- Post added at 10:30 ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 ----------

10 seconds from where? Under the rod end or forty yards out. The whole thread is designed to get people arguing over something that is not quantifiable.

Arguing?....who is arguing on this thread?

DISCUSSING or DEBATING are more appropriate words you could have used.....

Maverick

---------- Post added at 10:32 ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 ----------

There is distance, weight, strength and action of the rod, strength of line, hook size, species of fish and propensity to fight, or otherwise (Irish bream are a different proposition to many bream I've caught in England), confidence and ability of the angler................

It is just an argument for argument's sake.

Please see above......

Maverick

---------- Post added at 10:39 ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 ----------

Can I just remind everybody in this discussion that the SECOND fish the guy caught was a carp around the 4lb mark...and that was "skimmed" across the pool almost as quickly....he proper dragged it across.

Just thought I would remind everybody of that as a lot of attention is being paid to just the pound and a half skimmer and not the other bigger fish that followed.

Maverick

 

[bennygesserit]

Twenty seconds for a 3lb carp doesn't seem too quick for an experienced matchman , do you think was damaged by its handling or is it an aesthetics issue ?

 

[nicepix]

i think what Maverick means is the fish was bought in very quickly , I understood what he mean't , but , and this is a genuine question , does it harm a fish to be bought in quickly anyway ? Does it put too much pressure on the hook ?

There is a school of thought that a fish brought in quickly will have less chance of damage caused by the hook than one that is played out for longer. If you watch top anglers such as Tommy Pickering catching 5 - 10lb carp you'll see that he brings the fish into netting range very quickly and without any fuss.

 

[Merv Harrison]

Agree with you there Clive, apart from angling programmes that want to film the 'fight' to pad out and 'glorify', most of the top anglers can bring in and net a fish pretty smartish.

 

[dorsetandchub]

I've often heard it said that it's possible to cajole and kid a carp into the net before it "wakes up" to the fact it's hooked.

Not too sure where I stand on it but it does, at least, sound feasible.

 

[cg74]

Can I just remind everybody in this discussion that the SECOND fish the guy caught was a carp around the 4lb mark...and that was "skimmed" across the pool almost as quickly....he proper dragged it across.

Just thought I would remind everybody of that as a lot of attention is being paid to just the pound and a half skimmer and not the other bigger fish that followed.

Maverick

What technique was he using, at what distance and roughly how deep was he fishing?

 

[peter crabtree]

I think we were expected to say " damn barbaric match anglers !" Or suchlike?
Join in and give them a good slagging perhaps?
It's down to commercial fishery owners to make rules and it's their fish.
I've seen many different rules at fisheries re baits and tackle but never seen any mention of the minimum speed a fish must be landed.
The owner should be the person to speak to if you are concerned about it.

 

[nicepix]

I've often heard it said that it's possible to cajole and kid a carp into the net before it "wakes up" to the fact it's hooked.

Not too sure where I stand on it but it does, at least, sound feasible.

Phil, if you have time search out one of Tommy Pickering's Youtube videos on commercial carp fishing. I think it might be the one using method feeders. Blatant advertising, but just watch him bring those carp in. They don't even know they are hooked, they almost swim straight into the net.

As Colin has already stated; this isn't a new thing. Back in the 1970's Ivan Marks was bringing in bream over 4lb almost as quick as when winding in to re-bait.

 

[dorsetandchub]

Phil, if you have time search out one of Tommy Pickering's Youtube videos on commercial carp fishing. I think it might be the one using method feeders. Blatant advertising, but just watch him bring those carp in. They don't even know they are hooked, they almost swim straight into the net.

As Colin has already stated; this isn't a new thing. Back in the 1970's Ivan Marks was bringing in bream over 4lb almost as quick as when winding in to re-bait.

Thanks mate, I'll do that. Not sure I have the Kahunas to try it myself, though.

 

[flightliner]

I walked round my local commie today. Watched one angler playing a carp on the pole, maybe four pounds, it took him overly long to net it even with thick elastic and the "puller".
The next time on the far side of the pond was a guy using an eleven foot shakey sigma float rod some two lengths out.
I watched him play and land four carp up to five pounds which he had in the net in some two plus minutes each, he leaned into them giving little or no line unless absolutely necessary -- in total control yet you couldnt say he "bullied" the fish, simply a disply of total confidence in the gear he was using and knowing the limits of the carps pulling power.
My vote went to the second angler, the pole man just had his fish swimming around aimlessly dictating the proceedings.

 

[nicepix]

Thanks mate, I'll do that. Not sure I have the Kahunas to try it myself, though.

Here you go Phil............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly4H9jSlUP4

 

[maverick 7]

What technique was he using, at what distance and roughly how deep was he fishing?

I can answer that for you Colin......well mostly anyway.....he was feeder fishing approximately 30 maybe 40 meters out and I can't possibly know how deep it is with that method but I do have some idea how deep it is there as it is local to me and I reckon it is about 8 to 10 foot.

To be honest Colin...I am absolutely flabbergasted that some on here think that bringing a 4lb fish in from that distance and it hardly touching the water on the way seem to think it is perfectly OK....I don't care who used to do it in the past it is NOT the way I have been brought up to follow.

I couldn't even be sure what damage I would be concerned about because I really don't know....I am just reacting to a gut feeling that it is simply not right to fish that way....and at least some on here seem to agree with me.

Maverick

 

[itsfishingnotcatching]

Mav, this post certainly raises some further points to the fore:

-Why are juvenile bream called skimmers?
-Is the usage of 4 keepnets not a display of diligence by the fishery management and/or the angler?
-What is a good timescale for playing and landing a fish?
-How long should it take to disgorge a hook?
-Exactly how was the angler fishing; range, technique, hook size, rod used etc etc
-How was the time taken to land the fish measured?

As usual Maverick, very quick to start a bushfire, very slow to answer these specific questions.
Did you have these reservations over the methods of anglers as a tackle dealer or just sell to match fishermen anyway and, if their methods are unacceptable, does that make you guilty by association?

 

[arthur2sheds]

I think that there is a notion that all matchmen are the same..... I think at the top of the tree where the professional anglers earn their livings fish are a means to an end, with many of those anglers working as consultants to the trade... But there are Matchmen and there are matchmen

The likes of me and thee are clubbies, we can pick up a few quid at the club matches (if we are good enough) and sometimes, just sometimes, enter the odd open in the vain hope of a section win.... (I've tried a couple of Fisho-qualifiers and failed miserably)

That said I love the banter and laughs of the "Club Match" and I have to say I prefer to catch silvers rather than carp, I hate the carp oriented matches, (I fish them because I support the club matches) but I'd rather catch a 20lb bag of silvers than 100lb of carp any day.... Last season there was a match at a popular commercial water near me (Arrans lake) where nearly a thousand pounds of fish was caught by one man... to me that's not fishing....

increasingly I have taken to taking 1 rod and reel (usually a beanstick and pin) to a water and sat down to fish for whatever comes along... taking the "pressure to catch" off means you enjoy your sport a lot more.... unless of course you are driven by the need to pick up a brown envelope at the end of every session....

Tight lines

 

[maverick 7]

As usual Maverick, very quick to start a bushfire, very slow to answer these specific questions.
Did you have these reservations over the methods of anglers as a tackle dealer or just sell to match fishermen anyway and, if their methods are unacceptable, does that make you guilty by association?

Anything you say buddy........

Maverick

 

[bennygesserit]

Twenty seconds for a 3lb carp doesn't seem too quick for an experienced matchman , do you think was damaged by its handling or is it an aesthetics issue ?

Sorry Maverick that question was to you

 

[maverick 7]

I walked round my local commie today. Watched one angler playing a carp on the pole, maybe four pounds, it took him overly long to net it even with thick elastic and the "puller".
The next time on the far side of the pond was a guy using an eleven foot shakey sigma float rod some two lengths out.
I watched him play and land four carp up to five pounds which he had in the net in some two plus minutes each, he leaned into them giving little or no line unless absolutely necessary -- in total control yet you couldnt say he "bullied" the fish, simply a disply of total confidence in the gear he was using and knowing the limits of the carps pulling power.
My vote went to the second angler, the pole man just had his fish swimming around aimlessly dictating the proceedings.

Totally agree there Flight.......of course you should handle your fish with confidence and don't allow them to dictate the proceedings...but there is landing a fish with confidence and there is landing a fish with brute force....and the ones I saw caught was without a shadow of a doubt landed with brute force.....There is a big difference between 20 seconds and 2 PLUS minutes Flight.....the guy you spoke of with the Shakey Sigma Float rod probably took then somewhere between 6 to 8 times longer to land his fish than the prat I was watching.... with both men landing fish of a similar size.

Nothing wrong at all with that Flight...and I certainly wouldn't have a problem with it at all.

Some people seem to think I am implying ALL match anglers are the same....but of course I am doing no such thing.....However, I DO only ever see this going on with Commercial Match anglers....I very rarely watch Commercial matches but of the ones I do....these are the type of matches where it often takes place...I never see it on the river nor do I see it on a canal and nor do I see it on a lake.....only ever see it on a Commercial.......but that is just my observations.

Maverick

---------- Post added at 05:15 ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 ----------

Sorry Maverick that question was to you

To be honest Benny...I thought this question had already been answered by more than one member in recent posts.

I don't suppose it does if you're fishing under your rod end.....But I have already said in another post that this guy was fishing between 30 and 40 metres out with a feeder rod and when he was bringing the fish in it actually left the water for a second or two on more than one occasion during it's 40 metre journey to the blokes net. That is NOT the way to land a fish Benny.

I have already said this before too in a recent post.....as for the damage inflicted on the fish during this practice...I really don't know what sort of injuries the fish might sustain.....I am just reacting from a gut feeling that this just isn't the right way to do things when you are trying to catch fish.

...and as I have also said before.......there seems to be one or two agree with me as well.

Maverick

 

[arthur2sheds]

it all depends on the fish and the tackle.... I have caught fish on pole and rod an line that would not come in no matter what you do, conversely I have had them come in like a sack and be in the net in seconds....

If you use balanced gear it should not take overly long to net fish, at the weekend I had a 6lb carp on the pole on a size 6 elastic (silver fish laccy) and got it in quite quickly (puller bung) and there are times when using a size ten laccy the buggers won't come in (especially commons who seem to scrap bloody hard)

one tip I can pass on is keeping the rod or pole top two down low, if you try and use the rod or pole in the vertical position they'll scrap harder as they'll feel they are being dragged out of their environment, keep the tip low to the water and lead them to a net and don't sink the net till they are almost on top of it.... result one bagged fish, unstressed and fighting fit due to not being in a protracted fight....