E
EC
Guest
You get my email re: dane
give it a miss tomoz la!
give it a miss tomoz la!
C
Chairman BAZ (Angel of the North)
Guest
At the age of twelve most have poles costing around ?500 or more, plus a continental box. Who are you trying to kid Woody.?
E
EC
Guest
Furry muff Jethro, as Bazza pointed out earlier, there are loads of oaps in some clubs!
C
Chairman BAZ (Angel of the North)
Guest
Yep I knew about it mate, but I wasn't going to say anything to you.
Meaning that you are all to willing to give free or reduced licences away. Clubs are run as a business not a charity.
And before anybody says it my club does treat the juniors and then intermiediates in a fair way with reduced licences. And any oap's that are struggling to pay, depending on how long they have been in the club.
At one time they were banging on the door to join at 64 years of age because they got a card for next to nothing at 65. That is why it all depends on how long they have been a member for if they get any help or not.
Meaning that you are all to willing to give free or reduced licences away. Clubs are run as a business not a charity.
And before anybody says it my club does treat the juniors and then intermiediates in a fair way with reduced licences. And any oap's that are struggling to pay, depending on how long they have been in the club.
At one time they were banging on the door to join at 64 years of age because they got a card for next to nothing at 65. That is why it all depends on how long they have been a member for if they get any help or not.
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
One of my local clubs allows concessionary cards for pensioners PROVIDING they have been club members for 5 years, if you join at 65 you have to be a member for 5 years before you get a concession. I agree with this totally, it is fair and right.
I think some on here may change their tune when they receive a pension and find that theres hardly enough to go fishing at all let alone pay for a club card. Not all pensioners have money in the bank regardless of what you may think and a weekly income for two pensioners is ?129 or thereabouts, which is, I believe, actually below the poverty line, and how many of you could live on that.
I think some on here may change their tune when they receive a pension and find that theres hardly enough to go fishing at all let alone pay for a club card. Not all pensioners have money in the bank regardless of what you may think and a weekly income for two pensioners is ?129 or thereabouts, which is, I believe, actually below the poverty line, and how many of you could live on that.
W
Wolfman Woody
Guest
Get a life Baz. Not even down here do they have poles like that.
P
Phil Hackett Manchester Granitewith Pride
Guest
Pondered on this one and still can?t make me mind up.
I?ve been in one club for 30 years, when I joined it was ?11, about 40 % of an average weekly take-home wage of a blue collar at the time for the region.
It?s now ?85, which again is about 40% of a weekly take-home pay of said worker.
Effectively, the percentage hasn?t changed much in 30 years. What has changed is the numbers of waters you get on the card, over 200 as apposed to 110 when I joined.
Pensioners have always had a cheap (about half the full membership) card until recent years, where because of the age profile of members getting older, a rule was brought in that to qualify for a cheap card you have to have been in the club for 5 continuous years.
Now by the time I become a pensioner, I?ll have been in the club 44 years. But the age demographic will have shifted again to the older end of the spectrum If the club want to keep the verity of fishing it?s got on the card, it will I suspect, have to revisit the pensioner rule again, and shift it to 10 or 15 years continuous membership. And/or increase the cost to pensioners.
In principle I don?t disagree with pensioners getting a cheap card for the reasons Graham W points out. There are and will be for my lifetime poor pensioners in large numbers out there, through no fault of their own. Some are poor because their company stole their pensions funds off them, and/or were miss-sold pensions by brokers.
To means test them is I believe, beyond a club?s capabilities. And you?d always get anomalies in such a scheme, as you do with the sate scheme.
So I?ve not read anything on here yet that has helped me to come to a view either way
I?ve been in one club for 30 years, when I joined it was ?11, about 40 % of an average weekly take-home wage of a blue collar at the time for the region.
It?s now ?85, which again is about 40% of a weekly take-home pay of said worker.
Effectively, the percentage hasn?t changed much in 30 years. What has changed is the numbers of waters you get on the card, over 200 as apposed to 110 when I joined.
Pensioners have always had a cheap (about half the full membership) card until recent years, where because of the age profile of members getting older, a rule was brought in that to qualify for a cheap card you have to have been in the club for 5 continuous years.
Now by the time I become a pensioner, I?ll have been in the club 44 years. But the age demographic will have shifted again to the older end of the spectrum If the club want to keep the verity of fishing it?s got on the card, it will I suspect, have to revisit the pensioner rule again, and shift it to 10 or 15 years continuous membership. And/or increase the cost to pensioners.
In principle I don?t disagree with pensioners getting a cheap card for the reasons Graham W points out. There are and will be for my lifetime poor pensioners in large numbers out there, through no fault of their own. Some are poor because their company stole their pensions funds off them, and/or were miss-sold pensions by brokers.
To means test them is I believe, beyond a club?s capabilities. And you?d always get anomalies in such a scheme, as you do with the sate scheme.
So I?ve not read anything on here yet that has helped me to come to a view either way
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
How many times have you heard someone say "they are too expensive, if they were cheaper they would sell far more".
Perhaps this applies to club memberships as well!
Perhaps this applies to club memberships as well!
P
Phil Heaton
Guest
Whatever our opinions regarding the cost of membership fees, when this is split into a weekly or even a per visit cost that is where the real value is realised.
Bear in mind that the season ticket allows you access to fish 7 days per week and probably an average of 15 hours per day if night fishing is not allowed.
Try to join a gym, golf club, martial arts classes or any other ordinary pastime for the cost of a season ticket and the value will be put into perspectve.
If we paid prices in line with other activities then the 'red herring' of whether pensioners concessions were viable would not be an issue.
Bear in mind that the season ticket allows you access to fish 7 days per week and probably an average of 15 hours per day if night fishing is not allowed.
Try to join a gym, golf club, martial arts classes or any other ordinary pastime for the cost of a season ticket and the value will be put into perspectve.
If we paid prices in line with other activities then the 'red herring' of whether pensioners concessions were viable would not be an issue.
W
Wolfman Woody
Guest
"an average of 15 hours per day"
I hope I'm not being too pedantic, but many clubs operate river stretches only and if you take the season from June 16th to March 14th then the average daylight is more likely to be around 10 hours and even that is in the coldest and wettest time of year. It doesn't make it at all attractive.
In the year 2000 I was thinking of proposing that our ?40 membership fee for that year be reduced to ?20.00 (2000 split by a decimal point see?)
The idea being that it might double our membership anyway, but after that, we would have more people to write to with renewals when the price returned to normal the year after. If the membership didn't quite double we could afford the slight loss, I felt, and it would still be worth it. The other frosty old farts in the club didn't have that foresight.
I hope I'm not being too pedantic, but many clubs operate river stretches only and if you take the season from June 16th to March 14th then the average daylight is more likely to be around 10 hours and even that is in the coldest and wettest time of year. It doesn't make it at all attractive.
In the year 2000 I was thinking of proposing that our ?40 membership fee for that year be reduced to ?20.00 (2000 split by a decimal point see?)
The idea being that it might double our membership anyway, but after that, we would have more people to write to with renewals when the price returned to normal the year after. If the membership didn't quite double we could afford the slight loss, I felt, and it would still be worth it. The other frosty old farts in the club didn't have that foresight.
Y
yoggy
Guest
Kids,should get a reduction in any angling club,but pensioners,in my view should pay full wack.Why should they recieve a reduction?.My father like most pensioners,worked hard all his life and now lives of his pension,but NEVER moans and doesn`t ask for a reduction in his fishing club fees.Most pensioners receive some kind of reduction in everyday living,either it be a bus-pass,reduced heating bills,reduced council tax etc..etc...The point of me saying this is what about the average working man like myself?.I work a 60 hr week.I have to,i have a wife,kids,bills,a car to run,a bloody great mortgage..yes a mortgage,something that most pensioners do not have anymore.Most have worked hard and payed it off,and thats great,but financially,they should be alot better off than me,and most of them are,so pensioners dont give me your sob storey about being skint.You never hear the average family man with bills up to his eye balls moaning,we save hard and pay up and you should do the same.
T
Tony Rocca
Guest
Woody,
I would say the "frosty old farts" were right. I would bet that 90% of folks dont give a damn whether their club fee is ?20 or ?40, they would still be in regardless.
As for doubling the uptake, no chance.
Yoggy,
Im with you. Most OAPs I know do just fine.
I would say the "frosty old farts" were right. I would bet that 90% of folks dont give a damn whether their club fee is ?20 or ?40, they would still be in regardless.
As for doubling the uptake, no chance.
Yoggy,
Im with you. Most OAPs I know do just fine.
Y
yoggy
Guest
Cheers tony!!!,and another thing most pensioners dont work,so they have MORE spare time to go fishing,making their club ticket even better value!!!
P
Phil Heaton
Guest
Woody,
My local rivers are the Don and Dearne, many miles of both are free fishing, yet it is seriously underfished.
Lack of members is not the high cost but lack of interest in fishing away from commercial waters where success is almost guaranteed, safe parking is provided and the 'bushes' have tiles, paper and washing facilities.
My local rivers are the Don and Dearne, many miles of both are free fishing, yet it is seriously underfished.
Lack of members is not the high cost but lack of interest in fishing away from commercial waters where success is almost guaranteed, safe parking is provided and the 'bushes' have tiles, paper and washing facilities.
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
I sent an email to the secretary of the BAA regarding leases and their cost and this is their reply.
"The total annual BAA expenditure on fishing leases is published as part of
our accounts, which are registered at Companies House and can be inspected
by anyone. The figure for 2005 was in the region of ?70,000 plus VAT. We do
not disclose the rent paid for individual leases, as this is private between
BAA and the fishery owner. The cost of fishing leases is always going to
depend on market values, and sitting tenant clubs should not expect to be
given preferential treatment over other groups, be they other clubs or
syndicates. They should however be given the opportunity to bid for water on
an even playing field."
?82,250 per annum on leases is a lot of dosh but the BAA do have a lot water on rivers and was, but not sure whether it still is, the biggest fishing club in Britain. Their anuual increase is usually around ?1 and they have lost a lot of members over the last 20 years mainly down to match fishermen preferring carp pools but their annual card is still only ?23.50. What they have done is forego their rights on little used waters in Wales and they also gave up their waters on the Wye for the same reason and they are still buying rights to extra water on some rivers more local to B'ham.
It is a well run club with a committee who know their fishing and keep their ear to the ground and remains the best value for money in fishing that I know of.
"The total annual BAA expenditure on fishing leases is published as part of
our accounts, which are registered at Companies House and can be inspected
by anyone. The figure for 2005 was in the region of ?70,000 plus VAT. We do
not disclose the rent paid for individual leases, as this is private between
BAA and the fishery owner. The cost of fishing leases is always going to
depend on market values, and sitting tenant clubs should not expect to be
given preferential treatment over other groups, be they other clubs or
syndicates. They should however be given the opportunity to bid for water on
an even playing field."
?82,250 per annum on leases is a lot of dosh but the BAA do have a lot water on rivers and was, but not sure whether it still is, the biggest fishing club in Britain. Their anuual increase is usually around ?1 and they have lost a lot of members over the last 20 years mainly down to match fishermen preferring carp pools but their annual card is still only ?23.50. What they have done is forego their rights on little used waters in Wales and they also gave up their waters on the Wye for the same reason and they are still buying rights to extra water on some rivers more local to B'ham.
It is a well run club with a committee who know their fishing and keep their ear to the ground and remains the best value for money in fishing that I know of.
T
Tony Rocca
Guest
How many members do BAA have Graham?
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
T
Tony Rocca
Guest
Yes its a good price, not surprised with 27,000 members though.
What do they do with the odd ?500,000 left over after lease payments every year?
What do they do with the odd ?500,000 left over after lease payments every year?
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
First of all Tony I said that was the figure that came to mind, I'm not saying that is the correct figure you understand but yes, it is and always has been a very large club. I believe its membership numbered over 100.000 at one stage but of course that was in the 50' and 60's, it was even bigger than LAA and that was big. You should undertand it wasn't just the B'ham anglers that were members it covered the whole of the midlands, and still does of course.
They own a very large property in B'ham which is used for functions and presentations this of course costs money, plus staff, insurances etc but the answer to where all the money goes is free for you to look at in Companies House in B'ham 'cos I'm sure I don't know.
They own a very large property in B'ham which is used for functions and presentations this of course costs money, plus staff, insurances etc but the answer to where all the money goes is free for you to look at in Companies House in B'ham 'cos I'm sure I don't know.
T
Tony Rocca
Guest
Thanks Graham, I had a look at the web site, says tops was 70,000 in the 70,s.
Seems like a nice little business to me, good luck to em I say.
Seems like a nice little business to me, good luck to em I say.