Which wire?

[Eric Edwards]

I know how to crimp

...but do you know how to crimp Ti? Single barrelled crimps don't work well with the stuff, it slips out too easily and the crimp does indeed lead to a weak point. Double barrelled crimps work in a different way and don't compress the wire. I've been using Ti for three seasons now and I wouldn't go back to steel if you paid me. There's very little difference in overall cost since Ti traces last for years and never kink at all but in terms of pike safety they are miles ahead of steel.

 

[FLUKE]

Hi Eric,
I cant understand your comment...ti is miles ahead of steel wire in terms of safety? If you know how to twist wire and are not confident in crimping then wire is IMO much safer and to be honest I dont see an issue with safety with either if the rigs are prepared properly. I use wire for traces and I have never thought they werent safe. yes they may not last as long but there are less connections in a straight wire trace than in a jointed ti trace.

I also use ti but only for traces and I have had no issues with weak spots. I use a single barrel crimp and put the wire through three times. Whatever you do dont heat ti then it will definately snap.

 

[mick b]

I personally use 8inches of 45lb single strand wire for my spinning traces.
Its joined to the mainline via an Albright Knot and at the lure end by a 15mm loop closed off with a seven turn Haywire Twist and two wraps around the trace itself.
I leave a tag end of about 1/2" which I lay up-trace of the wraps.

When I want to change the lure the Haywire can be unwrapped quite easily and will usually last 20 or more changes before the wire breaks, which it always does during a change and never during use.

Cheap as chips at less than 5p per trace, almost invisible to the hundreds of Pike to nearly 30lb I've caught, and time proven since the mid 80s?

 

[FLUKE]

If youv`e been using 8 inch traces since the mid eighties then you have really been getting away with it. Next time you catch one measure the depth of its mouth.

I have had 18 inch traces with barely a few inches sticking out after a baits been inhaled.

 

[philblakey]

Ti traces last for years and never kink at all but in terms of pike safety they are miles ahead of steel.

Eric.
I've lost count of how many reports i've read of Ti leaders breaking. Often not on fish, sometimes breaking when trolling high vibration lures.
It seems to be a strange material, some love it, some hate it. I wouldn't be confident using Ti.
Phil.

 

[mick b]

Fluke, my lures are Cisco Kid 600 sizes with the tail hook on a 90lb swivel, the only fish ever to engulf the whole lure took it (tail first) when I'd stopped it following a 'bump' and that was the first time that particular lure had been cast out!
That said I'd never use such a short trace if I was using natural baits.

Phil, I've trolled quite a bit and when using hi vibration (action) lures anything can happen to the end gear.
Their main advantage is that they shake of 99% of the weed they encounter, but by the hell do they do some damage to the leader and connections.
My Halco Tremblers used to be rigged with 150lb double crimped solid wire (because of the Makos) which could only be used for one day before being replaced.

However I doubt an angler with a spinning reel could put as much strain on the trace as a boat doing 6knots plus.

 

[philblakey]

Couldn't tell you Mick, i don't do any trolling. Just reporting what others have said.
Quite a few lads on the LAS Forum have reported Ti leaders breaking, various types, sometimes midway along their length too, nothing to do with crimps.
Phil.

 

[Eric Edwards]

Eric.
I've lost count of how many reports i've read of Ti leaders breaking. Often not on fish, sometimes breaking when trolling high vibration lures.
It seems to be a strange material, some love it, some hate it. I wouldn't be confident using Ti.
Phil.

Phil., it's totally different to steel, if you treat it like steel it will let you down, you have to learn how to use Ti. The crimping process is very different and double-barrelled crimps are a lot better than single barrelled crimps with this material. When I first started using Ti I tried to crimp it with single crimps and when tested, it failed again and again. It was only when I went on to double-barrelled crimps that I discovered how good it was.

In terms of safety, steel will ultimately let you down every time, the only truly safe way to use it is to change the trace after every fish. Most kinks can be spotted and the trace changed but not every one, sooner or later a trace will break on you. That applies far more to bait traces than it does to lure traces because the former are invariably thinner.

I have had many, many steel traces kink on me after landing a fish, I've had none kink since moving to Ti and I land around sixty doubles a year along with lots of smaller fish.

 

[yogi224]

Hi Eric,
I cant understand your comment...ti is miles ahead of steel wire in terms of safety? If you know how to twist wire and are not confident in crimping then wire is IMO much safer and to be honest I dont see an issue with safety with either if the rigs are prepared properly. I use wire for traces and I have never thought they werent safe. yes they may not last as long but there are less connections in a straight wire trace than in a jointed ti trace.

I also use ti but only for traces and I have had no issues with weak spots. I use a single barrel crimp and put the wire through three times. Whatever you do dont heat ti then it will definately snap.

the bold bit needs highlighting as it could well save a few fish from an ugly death. maybe the poster who had Ti snap on him heated it? :thumbs:

---------- Post added at 01:37 ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 ----------

Eric.
I've lost count of how many reports i've read of Ti leaders breaking. Often not on fish, sometimes breaking when trolling high vibration lures.
It seems to be a strange material, some love it, some hate it. I wouldn't be confident using Ti.
Phil.

to me it has to be user error, it is stronger than any metal, so logic tells me its user error, it dont just snap

 

[Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC}]

the bold bit needs highlighting as it could well save a few fish from an ugly death. maybe the poster who had Ti snap on him heated it? :thumbs:

---------- Post added at 01:37 ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 ----------

to me it has to be user error, it is stronger than any metal, so logic tells me its user error, it dont just snap

I agree with this 100%.

I don't make my own Ti traces as to be honest and I've only used it so far for lure fishing. I've done very little piking in the past year or two, but the ready-mades I've bought from DLST have lasted many years already and I've never had one just snap. I've trolled with the same trace for literally miles and often had to pull it free from snags when fishing the big ressies. If and when I start seriously pike fishing again I will be looking to learn how to make safe Ti traces. It seems all but bullet-proof as a trace material to me.

..unfortunately I can't vouch for its longevity when catching numbers of fish on the same trace.

 

[phill pohl]

ti wire snaps when yanked quickly and hard and this is fact and as pike can have a terrific turn of speed from a safety point of view it is one of the most dangerous wires to use .I would pack pike fishing in if it was all there was available .As with lots of things today it is not fit for purpose absolute **** dangerous stuff

 

[terry m]

Agree Phil P, I stand by what I said before I certainly do know how to crimp Ti, with double barrelled crimps, and I don't make a habit of heating traces.

Titanium users may remember this thread when the line goes slack and a pike swims off with a trace in it's mouth, probably condemned to death.

My personal opinion of course, like all of the opinions on here.

 

[philblakey]

ti wire snaps when yanked quickly and hard and this is fact

One report i read about Ti was a lad was handed a solid leader to take a look at, he tugged it and it broke midway along its length. It's reading such things that's made me not want to use them, plus the swivels and crimps.
Phil.

---------- Post added at 13:14 ---------- Previous post was at 13:00 ----------

Phil., it's totally different to steel, if you treat it like steel it will let you down, you have to learn how to use Ti. The crimping process is very different and double-barrelled crimps are a lot better than single barrelled crimps with this material. When I first started using Ti I tried to crimp it with single crimps and when tested, it failed again and again. It was only when I went on to double-barrelled crimps that I discovered how good it was.

In terms of safety, steel will ultimately let you down every time, the only truly safe way to use it is to change the trace after every fish. Most kinks can be spotted and the trace changed but not every one, sooner or later a trace will break on you. That applies far more to bait traces than it does to lure traces because the former are invariably thinner.

I have had many, many steel traces kink on me after landing a fish, I've had none kink since moving to Ti and I land around sixty doubles a year along with lots of smaller fish.

The Ti leaders i tried were crimped with double barrel crimps, one i still have (i don't use it though), the other i binned as it kinked badly. I caught a 25lb pike that engulfed a jerkbait nose 1st, the wire was bent round the rear hook at the front of the pikes mouth, that's why it kinked.
My home made solid leaders kink sometimes, slight kink/bend then i straighten them, bad kink i change them. Never had one fail in 13 years of using them, not even on a snag, i don't know of or have never heard of a failure with these leaders. They're the safest leaders i know of, plus i like the fact they're twisted not crimped and i don't need to use a swivel, they're very cheap too.
Enough to make 40 leaders £8. 40 x 0.8mm stainless steel tig welding rods 316 grade | eBay
A lot like Ti as you do, but there's been far too many breakages using Ti for me to feel comfortable using them, i was glad to stop using the ones i had as i was never confident in them. I'm only talking about lure leaders made of Ti, no idea about the bait lads as i never read their posts.
Phil.

 

[Eric Edwards]

I can't comment on these things, I've never seen them happen. I've used Ti for both bait and lure traces now for three seasons and I've caught close on 200 doubles with quite a few twenties up to nearly thirty pounds on the stuff. No trace has failed on me, no crimp has failed on me, no fish have been left with tackle in their mouths. Ti is safer because it does not kink. Steel gets little kinks along it's length and while most of them are ok, the odd one will lead to a serious weakening of the wire.

The Drennan Ti wire received terrible reports and there's even a Youtube video demonstrating how it will be cut by ordinary forceps but that wire has been withdrawn from sale. I use AFW wire which I buy from Eddie Turner and it has not failed on me. I suspect some of the horror stories you're relating are down to the use of the Drennan wire but I never used it so I can't comment.

 

[terry m]

I can confirm that my bad experiences came with Drennan products

I can also confirm that when I commented to my local tackle dealer, it became aparent that I was not the only complainant!

 

[philblakey]

Very true Eric, the Drennan Ti wire is at least partly responsible for the bad reports. But others of various types have failed according to what i've read, when i say failed i don't mean the wire slipping through the crimps, that is user failure. I mean the actual wire breaking.
The one that stands out as a good Ti wire is the AFW that you use, i've read no bad reports about it at all, AFW is what i've used too.
Titanium is stronger than steel and has different properties to steel. I worked in engineering, i'm a mechanical fitter by trade and worked in research and development for GEC for a good few years, but i have no experience with Titanium. Plus am i correct in saying that Ti leaders aren't 100% Titanium, pretty sure they're made up of a percentage of Ti plus other metal?
An Uncle of mine built parts for planes and used Titanium, they used to x-ray the parts made of Ti for fractures, it was 100% Titanium though.
So i admit i know little about the stuff, but it is a very popular trace material and some rate it very highly, others don't rate it.
Maybe it needs further investigation, what types are safe and what aren't?
I don't blame you for using and recommending AFW , lots do and give it 100%.
Phil.

 

[Eric Edwards]

Aah, now we're making progress, like I say, I've never used the Drennan stuff but all reports indicate that it wasn't fit for purpose. It's not worth basing your judgements about Ti on a faulty product.

 

[philblakey]

Aah, now we're making progress, like I say, I've never used the Drennan stuff but all reports indicate that it wasn't fit for purpose. It's not worth basing your judgements about Ti on a faulty product.

You'd be better asking on other forums Eric, get a varied response.
I can only go off what others have experienced, but it's not only the Drennan stuff. The majority of bad reports i've read about Ti leaders have been recently, possibly due to it becoming more popular? But both solid and multistrand of various brands from what i recall, I was surprised how many have said they'd had Ti fail.
Phil.

 

[pikingpirategramps]

i make my own traces i buy knot2kinky 18lb nickel titanium i use single hooks this setup has never let me down the wire itself is really kink resistent, i catch four or five pike on most of the traces none have kinked from one fish and none have snapped on me, the wire stretches under extreme load but returns back to its original length kinda off feels likes there's a spring inside but is solid single strand wire, to be honest i dont know why anybody hasn't already mentioned it here's a link to it Trace Wire & Crimps

it comes in 6/12/18/35/55lbs the most expensive being £8.99 but the 18lb is 6.99 for 15ft
its also knotable so no need for crimps, i still use crimps to tidy up the trace but the knot doesnt slip
interesting to read people's views on titanium traces i've never tried titanuim trace wire just the stuff above although thats nickel titanium it says in the bumff that its elastic it certainly wouldn't snap with any pike run lol ave never had that experiance, has anyone else tried knot2kinky?
i would like to here a fellow users opinion as i dont know anyone locally who uses it

 

[FLUKE]

Aah, now we're making progress, like I say, I've never used the Drennan stuff but all reports indicate that it wasn't fit for purpose. It's not worth basing your judgements about Ti on a faulty product.

Eirc, I can crimp the drennan stuff and if you crimp it properly its as strong as any other TI. The problem lies with people not being able to do this properly. I wasted a fair bit before i came up with the solution but some people just do what they have always done and expect it to work the same on every product they purchase. You could apply the same senario with mono knots and fluorocarbon knots and one might then think that fluoro is **** because the knot they use every time they tie a rig doesn`t work with fluoro.

My ti leaders are all tested after crimping. I have a fly vice on a bench and i use a large treble on the end of the leader to test both connections for strength. I can pull harder than a pike and theres not clutch in my wrist so I am more than happy to use then.

One main point to highlight is if you crimp too near the end of the crimp the edge of the crimp MAY bite into the ti material which WILL cause a weak spot.

Regarding traces. In hindsight I probably do change them after each fish unless they are hooked in the scissors and I always inspect them. I would probably change to ti if I could convince myself that there was a better way to attached the second hook. Something I am currently experimenting with.

For those of you who aren`t confident in crimping anything then I still say your safer with wire. The fox predator book shows a good way to make a trace and I think the dvd is on you tube.