Why Don't Carp Anglers Post Here?

[Paul Boote]

Paul you crack me up dude - you make fishing sound like something James Bond would do, or <insert literary reference here [you get that a lot don't you ]> ( he is my favorite )

I can’t live the buttoned down life like you. I want it all! The terrifying lows, the dizzying highs, the creamy middles! Sure, I might offend a few of the blue-noses with my cocky stride and musky odors - oh, I’ll never be the darling of the so-called ‘City Fathers’ who cluck their tongues, stroke their beards, and talk about what’s to be done with this Homer Simpson?

It might crack YOU up, but I am just a very keen, extremely experienced and pretty able Angler (and sod those who have a problem with it!).

 

[bennygesserit]

It might crack YOU up, but I am just a very keen, extremely experienced and pretty able Angler (and sod those who have a problem with it!).

No , no offense intended , I just mean't you post in an exciting and interesting way.

---------- Post added at 00:35 ---------- Previous post was at 00:11 ----------

No , no offense intended , I just mean't you post in an exciting and interesting way.

Hello ? Is that AAA cars ? yes , it is ? Good , could you send a taxi please ?

10 minutes ? yes that'll be fine - hangs up

They said 10 minutes.....

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Maybe because they are all too busy e-mailing each other?

LOL

 

[Fishingdownthewindy]

It's an interesting question regarding the forum and I guess this has been answered already and where would we be without some great fishing forums...Fishing probably, I am more interested in the point regarding the “fishing Media”.
I had a lay off from fishing and went back four seasons back and God I missed it, what I did notice was picking up a number of magazines that demonstrated the angling world’s gone mad.

1.As useful the commercials are before someone throws the do-gooder book at me...great for disabled access and kids etc. Where is the watercraft on some waters, overstocked ponds with hungry small carp, I guess it suits some I believe they should exist so I can get some peace on the river.

2.The media go with trends and the advertisers that pay for that magazine to exist, every article has the sponsored cap wearing angler, with the XX brand baits and the XX brand products and usually with pre cursor “ It’s not just because I am sponsored by XX they really work” etc . As for the reviews they get told the rating to give surely not everything is 9 or a 10, remember the old reviews some were pretty damning....no competition from the internet I guess and multimedia marketing.

3.As for Carp angling, I live 5 minutes from Richworth fisheries and it appears to be a modern, well run place, full of those that can catch and those that have spent £5,000.00 on tackle ( soon to be sold on eBay for £1500.00) to catch the 40lb dream. The peer pressure on some to catch and have the shiny stuff I believe outweighs any pleasure given to the majority of actually angling.

4.Someone mentioned Carp anglers turning into Barbel anglers.....I won’t bother with a comment it always gets fractious.

5.The rod and pole names, destructor, desperado, gangster, godfather, warlord...ok from one manufacturer ...sorry forgot from a more trusted supplier “ Yank & Bank” these names conjure up, in charge, bullying and desperate. I appreciate the manufacturers do not want to have Oh well never mind, what a waste of time, The blanker etc, but the names demonstrate the typical instant angler that so many want to be without any of the basic rudimentary skills.

Now I sound like someone looking back with rose tinted glasses, but the majority of angling media and the manufacturers are in need to look through those specs and try to not always hit the lowest common dominator, I believe and maybe there is a magazine out there that was honest and gained a lot of respect it would have a large readership and the manufacturers / tackle shops would still advertise and in some cases up their game......and now relax.

 

[noknot]

Top post Sir!

 

[dangermouse]

4.Someone mentioned Carp anglers turning into Barbel anglers.....I won’t bother with a comment it always gets fractious.

That was me, but please bear in mind the tone of my post, ie humerous.

Nice post sir

 

[chub_on_the_block]

I am more interested in the point regarding the “fishing Media”.
I had a lay off from fishing and went back four seasons back and God I missed it, what I did notice was picking up a number of magazines that demonstrated the angling world’s gone mad.

Excellent thought-provoking post. I feel similarly.

The changes in angling remind me of what has happened to music with X Factor Karaoke etc and shrieking vocalists who cant sing, never mind write songs, that are incessantly pushed by the media. Like most things i put my disrespect for most things modern down to my age - but a common thread is the triumph of commercialism over talent, taste or meaning.

 

[bennygesserit]

With all due respect to fishingdownthewindy , I know on a forum that usually means the opposite but thats not my intention, pursuit of excellence is admirable but the assumption appears to be that those fishing commies think they are "doing real fishing" , I fish commercials and canals and I know which one is harder and requires more skill than the other.

I'll repeat this , just to be sure , being very good at something and being dedicated to it , is a great quality but to deride those who fish commercials is a bit like Steve Davis saying no one else should really enjoy snooker or practice it unless they aim to become very very good or are already very good. Taking the analogy further I play snooker but sometimes I play pool on an american style table where the pockets are bigger and its easier. I enjoy both but when I clear the table at pool I don't delude myself that I'm great at it.

Its the same with lots of things I can swim 1500m in just over half an hour , pretty good for 50 , but I don't discourage the guy I pass about 10 times in the next lane , its not a competition and neither is fishing.

Also try match fishing to a high level on a commercial and see how good you are at fishing a commercial.

So is the art of watercraft on rivers being lost because of lowest common denominator fishing on commercials ? Maybe for some , but judging by every fishing forum I have ever been to I'm basically the only one who fishes commercials the rest of you are all Complete Anglers catching fish in only the purest of fashions.

My name is Benny Gesserit and I like Commercial fisheries , I will never be a great angler but I am slowly becoming a competent one.

I hope that doesn't offend , it wasn't my intention.

 

[dangermouse]

but judging by every fishing forum I have ever been to I'm basically the only one who fishes commercials the rest of you are all Complete Anglers catching fish in only the purest of fashions.

My name is Benny Gesserit and I like Commercial fisheries , I will never be a great angler but I am slowly becoming a competent one.

Nah you`re not alone Benny. Not sure you can call my local day ticket water a true commercial but I love my trips up there. I`d probably fish it more often if I could afford to.

 

[watatoad]

In answer to the TITLE QUESTION. Because
1; They have their own forum.
2; There are other and more specialized Carp forums.
3; Because they consider themselves superior to other anglers and other areas of fishing.
4; Because so many of them are really more interested in their tackle brands than actually catching fish.
5; Because they are all out weight training so than can actually get their tackle carts to the waterside with all their mountain of gear piled on.
6; Because some of the older non Carp chasing anglers may have previously been Carp specimen anglers in their past and may know more about catching Carp then the current Carp angler would like.

---------- Post added at 15:29 ---------- Previous post was at 15:14 ----------

However as the thread appears to be more about Commercial fishing and non commercial fishing. This is how I look at it.

People want to fish, most people consider costs carefully, so they tend to fish locally in whatever water they can. Perhaps they weigh up club membership versus day ticket waters commercial or otherwise. Perhaps its just about transport costs. Perhaps its about just catching reasonable sized fish. Perhaps its about catching fish easier. Perhaps its about knowing someone has dumped a few hundred F1's into a water. I don't know and cannot speak for anyone else.

I prefer a more natural environment and yes I do know just how natural or not our rivers, canals and ponds are. I do not like how the stocking of so many Carp will turn a once good water into a muddy pond. Nor do I personally find commercials a challenge which appeals.

 

[Fishingdownthewindy]

Benny no offence at all, and thank you for the analogies.

I was directing this at the Fishing media and a go at the tackle manufacturers opposed to where people fish and want to fish, I can see the value of commercial’s and I would never deride the anglers using them and I have used them myself on a couple of occasions, I was referring to the OP that he can spent time on a river without seeing anyone or rarely seeing anyone......I cannot see it as a problem myself.

I have never seen my fishing as a competition ( brother aside) and never took to the match scene, I would not have a chance on a commercial against a match angler or a river or canal and I am not deluded to think so.

As for hitting out and judging people, this is not true, I was attacking the media, let’s take an example, someone decides to take up fishing buys a pile of magazines...what direction are they going to take? All I ask for from the media and tackle companies is a bit of balance and integrity.

I took my son first to the river aged six at the time not an easy one, the Windrush he caught minnows, chub, dace, roach, grayling and chub he loved it, we went to a commercial together in a fantastic setting and caught common and mirror carp he loved it, I asked which did he prefer and without question he said “The river” I was rather amazed and asked why? He replied “The river is real and this isn’t”, I had no influence over this.

I do not want to drag a six year old in to the equitation but their thoughts are pure maybe not scientific, but as far as angling is concerned, no grudges, no adverts, no worries about bling tackle etc, a straight answer but just another opinion like mine and yours.

 

[bennygesserit]

Benny no offence at all, and thank you for the analogies.

I was directing this at the Fishing media and a go at the tackle manufacturers opposed to where people fish and want to fish, I can see the value of commercial’s and I would never deride the anglers using them and I have used them myself on a couple of occasions, I was referring to the OP that he can spent time on a river without seeing anyone or rarely seeing anyone......I cannot see it as a problem myself.

I have never seen my fishing as a competition ( brother aside) and never took to the match scene, I would not have a chance on a commercial against a match angler or a river or canal and I am not deluded to think so.

As for hitting out and judging people, this is not true, I was attacking the media, let’s take an example, someone decides to take up fishing buys a pile of magazines...what direction are they going to take? All I ask for from the media and tackle companies is a bit of balance and integrity.

I took my son first to the river aged six at the time not an easy one, the Windrush he caught minnows, chub, dace, roach, grayling and chub he loved it, we went to a commercial together in a fantastic setting and caught common and mirror carp he loved it, I asked which did he prefer and without question he said “The river” I was rather amazed and asked why? He replied “The river is real and this isn’t”, I had no influence over this.

I do not want to drag a six year old in to the equitation but their thoughts are pure maybe not scientific, but as far as angling is concerned, no grudges, no adverts, no worries about bling tackle etc, a straight answer but just another opinion like mine and yours.

yes that really struck a cord with me as we used to have a caravan on the severn in Bridgnorth in the late 60's 70's , right below where the Severn Valley railway started , the river was a constant living thing , and even as a small boy there was plenty to watch while ledgering - a kingfisher on your rod tip , even a cow falling in the river ( it managed to save itself ). So great post , on the way to Furnace Mill my son and I cross a fantastic looking stretch of river - we have to give it a go, meanwhile as I am in work all weekend I have the day off tomorrow , so I am off to doze in the sun and try a zig rig for the first time.

 

[mark brailsford 2]

They do not have time to post, they are all down the tackle shop spending another five grand on the latest ''must have'' reels, rods, bedchair, bivy, stove, sleeping bag, rucksack, rod holdall, camera, camera bag, mat, scales, table, rod pod, bait boat, buzzers, bait, clothing, flask, mug, knife and fork...oh, and not forgetting the new electric trolly to carry the dam stuff on!!

 

[watatoad]

I can only speak for myself.

I never buy any angling magazine, unless someone gives me one to read a particular article I would never bother to read one. I gave up reading them many years ago when they became advertising comics rather than a section of the media. I was tired of this writer or that writer extolling the virtues and wonders of his current sponsors latest product and telling me it was the only thing and the most essential piece of equipment I must have if I wanted to catch fish.

Rubbish the most essential part of any anglers equipment is his or her brain to process the information his or her other senses are feeding him or her.

I got tired of the constant and pointless fairy stories of many a new piece of equipments value. I got tired of the promotion of both the Carp and the Commercial fishery. I hated the promotion of 'baggin' and 'haul a good weight'. What an absolute useless, moronic bunch of fools doing more harm to angling than any anti angling campaigning group could ever hope to do. Those idiots have created an image of angling that has little or nothing to do with angling but has more in common with a load of lager louts going trawling.

I may not fish for Carp these days but I know a good few anglers who do and many of them are as dedicated and determined as any specimen hunting group that has ever existed although most are a lot less secretive these days.

Regardless to what many say I have watched newcomers and youngsters trying to learn to fish on commercials and I am pleased to say most will learn how to cast and set up and will do fine while they stick to commercials. Get on a canal or river or worse a crystal clear chalk stream and they will be as lost and floundering as all the British governments have been since the second world war, they will be totally out of their depth and a long way from their comfort zone.

The media moved against traditional fishing a long while ago, maybe even the Carp anglers are getting fed up with the constant demands that they spend more and more of their dwindling incomes on newer and newer tackle or baits.

Sure the media has to take some direction from the advertisers, however the media has overlooked that push things too far one way and you loose many customers and if those angling customers no longer buy the media then they never get to see all those pretty adverts for whatever latest fad the manufacturers are hoping to make a profit on and usually its the older anglers who leave and not surprisingly they are the very ones who usually have more disposable income so I guess many manufacturers are in reality loosing out.

In so far as forums go I am on Anglers Net (once nicknamed centrepin central though far less so these days), Maggotdrowners, Fishing Magic and about ten other forums dedicated to fishing, I don't go on Carp fishing forums as I am not interested. I would assume the same applies to those who fish for Carp, they don't go on forums that lean more towards traditional fishing or even river fishing.

I learned to fish on rivers, canals, streams, brooks, private lakes and ponds. Back in the days when manufacturers looked to improve on the quality of their products and were proud of what they produced unlike today when its all about cheap goods, poor service, built in obsolescence, maximising the profits and producing a constant supply of new junk to tempt the average angler to donate his hard earned and diminishing income on.

Well that's my personal opinion.

 

[chub_on_the_block]

I used to avidly read the Anglers Mail, Angling Times and Coarse Fisherman from the mid 70s up to late 80s i guess. Since then , just occasionally.

I used to enjoy the match reports and the weekly Clubman listings of best winning weights in club-matches - i once had five clubman badges that i was very proud of. The form of local rivers and day ticket waters could be deduced from the results. Nowadays the match results, many fewer in number and far less well attended, mostly describe gross bags of carp from puddles, so not much insight into how rivers, canals etc are fishing - although many clubs do put this more interesting info on their websites.

There was just as likely to be an article about how to make floats or feeders or other tackle items, or novel rigs, as opposed to plugging a brand or particular products which it seems is all you get now.

And finally it is so carp dominated and dominated by "names" who get to fish the syndicate waters etc. If someone was getting 30Ib carp from the Thames or Cam etc then that is an achievement i would be interested to read about. But if it is from an "undisclosed" pit or a syndicate water i would have no chance of fishing then I would be far less interested. Success with specialist angling really seems to boil down to having access to specimen fish and having the time to put in on the bank. As i dont have either, all the countless articles about it hold very little interest to me. I would rather be reading articles about winter roach fishing on a typical river or summer chubbing etc.

 

[sam vimes]

Some of the posts on here (and a couple of other threads) reinforce exactly what I was suggesting earlier. There seems to be far too many people that are too quick to paint all "carpers" as unthinking eejits. Don't get me wrong, there are enough of them, but not all carpers are the incompetent one trick ponies that some are so quick to presume. I too would bemoan the fact that there are a few too many carpers out there (even reasonably competent and relatively intelligent ones) that wouldn't have a clue what to do if you presented them with a float rod and a pint of maggots on waters they were otherwise familiar with, let alone a river. I think that's a shame, but you can't force someone to broaden their horizons. However, don't presume such ignorance just because you see a bloke in a bivvy with three rods and alarms.

I'd also suggest that people don't confuse carping with fishing for large numbers of relatively small carp on commercials with match style "bagging" gear. It may be the same species but it ain't carping in the eyes of most that would consider themselves to be carp anglers.

 

[chub_on_the_block]

I'd also suggest that people don't confuse carping with fishing for large numbers of relatively small carp on commercials with match style "bagging" gear. It may be the same species but it ain't carping in the eyes of most that would consider themselves to be carp anglers.

Absolutely agree. I have a lot of respect for dedicated individuals trying to catch a huge carp from somewhere like the Thames - a huge public water which requires a lot of time locating the fish, and other waters that are difficult and require much thought about rigs and tackle. The carp-bagging phenomenon is a different thing altogether and a thing which has spread like a virus to many club-waters that were once balanced mixed fisheries, aside from the featureless puddles designed for profit.

 

[watatoad]

Some of the posts on here (and a couple of other threads) reinforce exactly what I was suggesting earlier. There seems to be far too many people that are too quick to paint all "carpers" as unthinking eejits. Don't get me wrong, there are enough of them, but not all carpers are the incompetent one trick ponies that some are so quick to presume. I too would bemoan the fact that there are a few too many carpers out there (even reasonably competent and relatively intelligent ones) that wouldn't have a clue what to do if you presented them with a float rod and a pint of maggots on waters they were otherwise familiar with, let alone a river. I think that's a shame, but you can't force someone to broaden their horizons. However, don't presume such ignorance just because you see a bloke in a bivvy with three rods and alarms.

I'd also suggest that people don't confuse carping with fishing for large numbers of relatively small carp on commercials with match style "bagging" gear. It may be the same species but it ain't carping in the eyes of most that would consider themselves to be carp anglers.

Nicely put that is what I said in the middle of my post:

I got tired of the constant and pointless fairy stories of many a new piece of equipments value. I got tired of the promotion of both the Carp and the Commercial fishery. I hated the promotion of 'baggin' and 'haul a good weight'. What an absolute useless, moronic bunch of fools doing more harm to angling than any anti angling campaigning group could ever hope to do. Those idiots have created an image of angling that has little or nothing to do with angling but has more in common with a load of lager louts going trawling.

I may not fish for Carp these days but I know a good few anglers who do and many of them are as dedicated and determined as any specimen hunting group that has ever existed although most are a lot less secretive these days.

Regardless to what many say I have watched newcomers and youngsters trying to learn to fish on commercials and I am pleased to say most will learn how to cast and set up and will do fine while they stick to commercials. Get on a canal or river or worse a crystal clear chalk stream and they will be as lost and floundering as all the British governments have been since the second world war, they will be totally out of their depth and a long way from their comfort zone.

Unfortunately rather a lot of the Commercial Carp anglers give themselves the name Carp anglers and as there are more average Carp anglers fishing Commercials than there are Carp Chasing anglers (specimen hunters) all tend to get tagged with the lowest and worst common definition.

 

[Simon K]

And finally it is so carp dominated and dominated by "names" who get to fish the syndicate waters etc. If someone was getting 30Ib carp from the Thames or Cam etc then that is an achievement i would be interested to read about. But if it is from an "undisclosed" pit or a syndicate water i would have no chance of fishing then I would be far less interested. Success with specialist angling really seems to boil down to having access to specimen fish and having the time to put in on the bank. As i dont have either, all the countless articles about it hold very little interest to me. I would rather be reading articles about winter roach fishing on a typical river or summer chubbing etc.

Many of the syndicated carp fisheries are just as difficult to catch specimen-sized carp from as any river. Harder in fact, since river fish are not rig-shy. The fisheries are not densely stocked and many (most, in some cases) of the bigger fish are very tricky to catch, maybe only coming out once a season. Some, even less.

Don't be too quick to write this all off with pre-programmed knee-jerk responses, these are exactly the situations/venues/anglers that in the past (and still currently) have shaped half of the gear and ideas that are used throughout all fishing today.

These are the fish that force people to think "outside the box" and no, they won't be leading to the development of the latest "BagginGrabber" pole.

Syndicates are formed by weight-of-numbers demand, hard waters with big personal rewards draw anglers as much as a commercial or a beautiful bit of river.

Your average dedicated carper will be fishing for a personal challenge, most syndicate lakes will have anything from a couple of big 30's to maybe a 50 at best. Not records by a long chalk, but wary, tricky individuals.

This is why the "Great Gear Debate" keeps carpers apart, it's the edges that everyone's looking for that count. That "Mystique" factor about rigs and bait, strategy and tactics especially.
Have a count up of the number of different rigs you can utilise for carp (and what each rig tries to achieve) in all the situations that may arise, then compare that to any other species.

Not too much of that fishing a feeder of maggots or a float-fished piece of flake for chub and barbel really now, is there? :wh

 

[sam vimes]

Unfortunately rather a lot of the Commercial Carp anglers give themselves the name Carp anglers and as there are more average Carp anglers fishing Commercials than there are Carp Chasing anglers (specimen hunters) all tend to get tagged with the lowest and worst common definition.

I agree, but those that are doing the tagging (stereotyping) are not generally the folks that consider themselves as carpers. Go on a proper carp forum and see the derision reserved for those using heavy specimen tactics on the match orientated commercials. You'll often see the phrase "Argos Anglers" bandied about. It's as bad as the derision doled out to "carpers" on the more general (Noddy) fishing forums.